330d / 335d touring lease deals or am I wrong?

[JNW1]

Welshbeef said:

Guess there must be a but of jealousy being out in practice v the commercial world but hey ho I don't begrudge anyone nor do I keep banging out profile info as is your MO.

Strange really.

As you were

So away from the insults and back to the numbers, why exactly do you think a 335i will have a lower total cost of ownership than a 335d? The figures quoted thus far on this thread seem to suggest the opposite so do you have some facts to substantiate your assertion?!

[Welshbeef]

JNW1 said:

So away from the insults and back to the numbers, why exactly do you think a 335i will have a lower total cost of ownership than a 335d? The figures quoted thus far on this thread seem to suggest the opposite so do you have some facts to substantiate your assertion?!

Ok

Firstly the 3:5d costs more to buy - a significant chunk more which far negates the difference in fuel usage over many years on average milage.

Secondly and crucially there are hardly any 335is being sold as such when you come to sell it will be super rare maybe the only one in a certain spec when you have tiny supply/unique supply v the loads of 335ds then the market value will be HIGHER than the 335d come time to sell so cheaper to buy and worth more after due to the above statement. Servicing will be indifferent

Note both cars will be rare but the 335i will be like hens teeth - look no further than a E90 335i v 335d, things have moved even more towards the diesel since then.

[Fox-]

Welshbeef said:

Ok

Firstly the 3:5d costs more to buy - a significant chunk more which far negates the difference in fuel usage over many years on average milage.

Secondly and crucially there are hardly any 335is being sold as such when you come to sell it will be super rare maybe the only one in a certain spec when you have tiny supply/unique supply v the loads of 335ds then the market value will be HIGHER than the 335d come time to sell so cheaper to buy and worth more after due to the above statement. Servicing will be indifferent

Note both cars will be rare but the 335i will be like hens teeth - look no further than a E90 335i v 335d, things have moved even more towards the diesel since then.

When a 335i or 535i goes up on the AUC site it typically sits there for months dropping in price before eventually vanishing. Nobody wants them, this is why there are not many of them around in the first place. The same cannot be said of x35d's which people seem happy to pay bonkers money for.

The 335d is only £1700 more of which £1500 is the X-Drive premium anyway.

Edited by Fox- on Saturday 7th March 22:15

[JNW1]

Welshbeef said:

Ok

Firstly the 3:5d costs more to buy - a significant chunk more which far negates the difference in fuel usage over many years on average milage.

Secondly and crucially there are hardly any 335is being sold as such when you come to sell it will be super rare maybe the only one in a certain spec when you have tiny supply/unique supply v the loads of 335ds then the market value will be HIGHER than the 335d come time to sell so cheaper to buy and worth more after due to the above statement. Servicing will be indifferent

Note both cars will be rare but the 335i will be like hens teeth - look no further than a E90 335i v 335d, things have moved even more towards the diesel since then.

So the 335d costs more and will have an inferior residual value? If both those things were true surely that would be reflected in a lower monthly lease cost compared to the 335i but that deoesn't seem to be the case?

[anonymous-user]

JNW1 said:

Welshbeef said:

Ok

Firstly the 3:5d costs more to buy - a significant chunk more which far negates the difference in fuel usage over many years on average milage.

Secondly and crucially there are hardly any 335is being sold as such when you come to sell it will be super rare maybe the only one in a certain spec when you have tiny supply/unique supply v the loads of 335ds then the market value will be HIGHER than the 335d come time to sell so cheaper to buy and worth more after due to the above statement. Servicing will be indifferent

Note both cars will be rare but the 335i will be like hens teeth - look no further than a E90 335i v 335d, things have moved even more towards the diesel since then.

So the 335d costs more and will have an inferior residual value? If both those things were true surely that would be reflected in a lower monthly lease cost compared to the 335i but that deoesn't seem to be the case?

Yes, of course it would but in all honesty none of this matters.

Christ, when I said these threads are full of st on the first page, I really was hoping this one wouldn't go the same way but, as usual it's been hijacked by some innumerate ahole with some vague axe to grind......

As you were.

[PorkInsider]

What have the purchase price and residuals got to do with this?

It's clear that OP is talking about leasing (thread title for starters) and that's what all the posts in the thread refer to, including the one you tried to use to back up your claim that the 335i would be significantly cheaper over the term. (It didn't back up that claim at all but that's another story.)

Very bizarre.

[Welshbeef]

JNW1 said:

So the 335d costs more and will have an inferior residual value? If both those things were true surely that would be reflected in a lower monthly lease cost compared to the 335i but that deoesn't seem to be the case?

I've literally just looked at autotrader

26 335i
74 335d
Under 2 years old

Cheapest 335d is £29k
Cheapest 335i is £29k

Given 335d costs £1.7k more to buy its retained more of its value.


Let's not let facts get in the way eh.
So over 2 years its cheaper job done.



Not sure why some try to detail a thread and get all oddly personal then when proved to be incorrect they do a great impersonation of an SNP member fingers in ears lala lala in can't hear you.

[Fox-]

Welshbeef said:

I've literally just looked at autotrader

26 335i
74 335d
Under 2 years old

Cheapest 335d is £29k
Cheapest 335i is £29k

Given 335d costs £1.7k more to buy its retained more of its value.


Let's not let facts get in the way eh.
So over 2 years its cheaper job done.

Well no because the cheaper 335d's seem to have 20k+ miles on whereas the cheaper 335i's are all very low mileage cars. Similarly low mileage 335d's appear to cost more.

[Welshbeef]

Fox- said:

Well no because the cheaper 335d's seem to have 20k+ miles on whereas the cheaper 335i's are all very low mileage cars. Similarly low mileage 335d's appear to cost more.

Impasse.

Very few 335is 3x as many for sale tonight - all appear to be for sale within the same used price range. Diesel buyers but them generally to do more miles petrol buyers generally don't do as many - what you've seen prices this point.

Is the 335i desirable --- from PH folk appears to be hugely popular but hard to buy them, joe public generally doesn't buy it instead the 335d (generally).

Of the 20 something 335i cars for sale that's £29k up to what £45k so someone looking for one around £30k has how many to realistically choose from? same question but for the diesel. One will have much more options more supply equals chance to negotiate harder fewer you could do the same but its harder.


Just like the Alpina D3 will be worth hugely more than the 335d as its uber rare and is desirable.

[JNW1]

Welshbeef said:

I've literally just looked at autotrader

26 335i
74 335d
Under 2 years old

Cheapest 335d is £29k
Cheapest 335i is £29k

Given 335d costs £1.7k more to buy its retained more of its value.


Let's not let facts get in the way eh.
So over 2 years its cheaper job done.



Not sure why some try to detail a thread and get all oddly personal then when proved to be incorrect they do a great impersonation of an SNP member fingers in ears lala lala in can't hear you.

So your facts are based on a quick look on Autotrader? Strange all those professionals who set the rates for leasing companies (and PCP repayments for BMW Finance) arrive at a different conclusion but if you feel Autotrader offers a more accurate view - and proves your point - then fine.....

[Welshbeef]

JNW1 said:

So your facts are based on a quick look on Autotrader? Strange all those professionals who set the rates for leasing companies (and PCP repayments for BMW Finance) arrive at a different conclusion but if you feel Autotrader offers a more accurate view - and proves your point - then fine.....

They are guessing too - some over cooking or under cooking the values.

The only way to know for sure if they are accurate is to take actual PCP/lease contract hire quotes 2 years ago for the miles and spec of used cars today. Else its not a like for like comparison.

PCP should be set so as to ensure you are never in negative equity and ideally as much as they can to tie you into the next replacement car.


Anyone proclaiming to know what a car will or will not be worth in the future is telling lies they are all guessing crystal ball time.

[JNW1]

Welshbeef said:

They are guessing too - some over cooking or under cooking the values.

The only way to know for sure if they are accurate is to take actual PCP/lease contract hire quotes 2 years ago for the miles and spec of used cars today. Else its not a like for like comparison.

PCP should be set so as to ensure you are never in negative equity and ideally as much as they can to tie you into the next replacement car.


Anyone proclaiming to know what a car will or will not be worth in the future is telling lies they are all guessing crystal ball time.

Clearly anything that predicts the future is subject to uncertainty. However, the people who set leasing and PCP rates are dealing with thousands of vehicles and, while not all of those are 335 BMW's, presumably they must operate with a reasonable level of accuracy otherwise they wouldn't keep their jobs; therefore if their consensus view is that a 335d will cost less to run over (say) a three year period than a 335i , my working assumption would be that they know what they're doing and hence are likely to be right. You've effectively admitted in your post above that you're just guessing and with due respect I'll take the view of the people who are more likely to be in the know!

My advice to the OP is still to drive the 330d/335d/335i and see which you prefer; the running cost difference between the 335d and 335i will be insignificant on the mileage you're doing so it's really down to which you like the most!

[Welshbeef]

JNW1 said:

Clearly anything that predicts the future is subject to uncertainty. However, the people who set leasing and PCP rates are dealing with thousands of vehicles and, while not all of those are 335 BMW's, presumably they must operate with a reasonable level of accuracy otherwise they wouldn't keep their jobs; therefore if their consensus view is that a 335d will cost less to run over (say) a three year period than a 335i , my working assumption would be that they know what they're doing and hence are likely to be right. You've effectively admitted in your post above that you're just guessing and with due respect I'll take the view of the people who are more likely to be in the know!

My advice to the OP is still to drive the 330d/335d/335i and see which you prefer; the running cost difference between the 335d and 335i will be insignificant on the mileage you're doing so it's really down to which you like the most!

Given they were quoting me c£14k IIRc full loaded F31 335d m sport 15k a year over 48 months there is no way hey can get it wrong its just how much equity they achieve.


If you have any BMW PCP quote giving market value no GFV in 3/4 years please provide as BMW do not quote this.

[JNW1]

Welshbeef said:

Given they were quoting me c£14k IIRc full loaded F31 335d m sport 15k a year over 48 months there is no way hey can get it wrong its just how much equity they achieve.


If you have any BMW PCP quote giving market value no GFV in 3/4 years please provide as BMW do not quote this.

GFV's don't purport to be market values but surely the calculation will follow the same logic regardless of model (i.e. BMW won't seek to leave the purchaser of a 335i with more equity at the end of their agreement than a purchaser of 335d?). That being case, for a given deposit, mileage and contract term the monthly repayments should give a good indication as to how BMW view the likely residual values; my guess is those monthly payments won't differ significantly which implies the 335d is expected to recover most if not all of it's higher original cost through an improved residual value. For your assertion that a 335i costs a lot less to run to be correct then all other things being equal that should be reflected in a much lower monthly PCP payment - suspect that's not the case though!

[Fox-]

Welshbeef said:

If you have any BMW PCP quote giving market value no GFV in 3/4 years please provide as BMW do not quote this.

Surely you can understand that whilst not market value (or even close in some instances) the market value is a fundamental figure that underpins and informs a GFV?!

[Welshbeef]

Fox- said:

Welshbeef said:

If you have any BMW PCP quote giving market value no GFV in 3/4 years please provide as BMW do not quote this.

Surely you can understand that whilst not market value (or even close in some instances) the market value is a fundamental figure that underpins and informs a GFV?!

Fox clearly I can but I'm arguing the point its still a guess and can be wrong however its speed so far in BMWs interests they cannot get it wrong.

The sole way to prove it is live examples get a quote on PCP v live used examples.



What is BMWs margin of error? We don't know

[JNW1]

Welshbeef said:

What is BMWs margin of error? We don't know

No we don't but surely it will be consistent between a 335i and a 335d? That being the case you can make a comparison between the two and if you did I suspect you'd find that your assertion of a 335i having a significantly lower TCO wouldn't hold water!

[Welshbeef]

JNW1 said:

Welshbeef said:

What is BMWs margin of error? We don't know

No we don't but surely it will be consistent between a 335i and a 335d? That being the case you can make a comparison between the two and if you did I suspect you'd find that your assertion of a 335i having a significantly lower TCO wouldn't hold water!

No you cannot as the margin for error on each variant will be different and will change all the time based upon demand.


Anyway for 8-10k a year there will be little in it given what Autotrader used values show today.

[JNW1]

Welshbeef said:

No you cannot as the margin for error on each variant will be different and will change all the time based upon demand.

Ah, so you know for a fact how BMW Finance calculate their PCP payments then? That being the case presumably you also know how lease companies calculate their monthly payments as well in which case you should be able to explain why a 335i doesn't come out significantly cheaper than a 335d? I'm all ears!

[drmark]

Jeez Welshbeef - you would argue black is white rather than stand down and admit you sometimes exaggerate / get things wrong. We have all done it.