Insuring a Z3M, an appreciating asset.
Discussion
Hello All,
Last year, I came back into Z3m Roadster ownership and got myself an S54 Z3m (one of only 73 right hand drive cars). At the time I thought I had paid towards the top end of what the car was worth (£14K), but as prices for any S54 seem to be in the low £20K area now ( I know this doesn't mean they sell for that value), I'm starting to think I have undervalued my car from an insurance point of view.
So, the question is: have any of you had any experience of increasing the insurance value of a car part way through the term of the policy? If so, was it a real hassle to do and to prove the new/expected value of the car to the insurer? Also, was there a massive hike in the premium?
I thought I would ask the collective pool of PH knowledge, before contacting the ensurers and being ill prepared for any potential discussion/negotiation.
The above obviously also applies to any car that is going up in value.
Thanks
Last year, I came back into Z3m Roadster ownership and got myself an S54 Z3m (one of only 73 right hand drive cars). At the time I thought I had paid towards the top end of what the car was worth (£14K), but as prices for any S54 seem to be in the low £20K area now ( I know this doesn't mean they sell for that value), I'm starting to think I have undervalued my car from an insurance point of view.
So, the question is: have any of you had any experience of increasing the insurance value of a car part way through the term of the policy? If so, was it a real hassle to do and to prove the new/expected value of the car to the insurer? Also, was there a massive hike in the premium?
I thought I would ask the collective pool of PH knowledge, before contacting the ensurers and being ill prepared for any potential discussion/negotiation.
The above obviously also applies to any car that is going up in value.
Thanks
I can't give you a definitive answer, however I can give you my recent experience:
In 2013 I bought a TVR Chimaera. Switched on to an existing insurance policy for the car it replaced.
In summer 2014 it got its own policy. The insurer asked what I had paid for it and I told them.
Sadly it was written off in spring 2015 - at the time, it was for sale for around 25% more than I had paid - which, market wise, meant someone was going to get a good deal.
The insurers first offer was, after excess, exactly what I had paid for it. When I said "thanks, I want to check a few things before deciding whether to accept" the response came:
"That IS what you told us you had paid for it, sir.."
Which told me that they'd pull me up for under-insuring if I asked for more, at which point my policy would be void.
I'd just call them and see what they say.
In 2013 I bought a TVR Chimaera. Switched on to an existing insurance policy for the car it replaced.
In summer 2014 it got its own policy. The insurer asked what I had paid for it and I told them.
Sadly it was written off in spring 2015 - at the time, it was for sale for around 25% more than I had paid - which, market wise, meant someone was going to get a good deal.
The insurers first offer was, after excess, exactly what I had paid for it. When I said "thanks, I want to check a few things before deciding whether to accept" the response came:
"That IS what you told us you had paid for it, sir.."
Which told me that they'd pull me up for under-insuring if I asked for more, at which point my policy would be void.
I'd just call them and see what they say.
keith2.2 said:
"That IS what you told us you had paid for it, sir.."
Which told me that they'd pull me up for under-insuring if I asked for more, at which point my policy would be void.
What it should have told you is that they were just looking for a way to get you accept less than it was worth at the time of the writeoff.Which told me that they'd pull me up for under-insuring if I asked for more, at which point my policy would be void.
shantybeater said:
20k? wow... I sold my s54 with 50K on the clock 2 and a half years ago for £10,500 (the same I paid for it 2 years prior to that with 40k mileage)
Have a look at ZM Coupes.....! a 2000 X 12000 mile car has recently sold for £45K......! and auto trader at the moment a 16000 mile for £43500 and a 6000 mile roadster for £37500.....!keith2.2 said:
I can't give you a definitive answer, however I can give you my recent experience:
In 2013 I bought a TVR Chimaera. Switched on to an existing insurance policy for the car it replaced.
In summer 2014 it got its own policy. The insurer asked what I had paid for it and I told them.
Sadly it was written off in spring 2015 - at the time, it was for sale for around 25% more than I had paid - which, market wise, meant someone was going to get a good deal.
The insurers first offer was, after excess, exactly what I had paid for it. When I said "thanks, I want to check a few things before deciding whether to accept" the response came:
"That IS what you told us you had paid for it, sir.."
Which told me that they'd pull me up for under-insuring if I asked for more, at which point my policy would be void.
I'd just call them and see what they say.
I disagree. What you told them you paid for it is irrelevant - the insurance industry works on 'market value' not what you paid for something. All policies I've seen recently specifically say market value.In 2013 I bought a TVR Chimaera. Switched on to an existing insurance policy for the car it replaced.
In summer 2014 it got its own policy. The insurer asked what I had paid for it and I told them.
Sadly it was written off in spring 2015 - at the time, it was for sale for around 25% more than I had paid - which, market wise, meant someone was going to get a good deal.
The insurers first offer was, after excess, exactly what I had paid for it. When I said "thanks, I want to check a few things before deciding whether to accept" the response came:
"That IS what you told us you had paid for it, sir.."
Which told me that they'd pull me up for under-insuring if I asked for more, at which point my policy would be void.
I'd just call them and see what they say.
TTmonkey said:
keith2.2 said:
I can't give you a definitive answer, however I can give you my recent experience:
In 2013 I bought a TVR Chimaera. Switched on to an existing insurance policy for the car it replaced.
In summer 2014 it got its own policy. The insurer asked what I had paid for it and I told them.
Sadly it was written off in spring 2015 - at the time, it was for sale for around 25% more than I had paid - which, market wise, meant someone was going to get a good deal.
The insurers first offer was, after excess, exactly what I had paid for it. When I said "thanks, I want to check a few things before deciding whether to accept" the response came:
"That IS what you told us you had paid for it, sir.."
Which told me that they'd pull me up for under-insuring if I asked for more, at which point my policy would be void.
I'd just call them and see what they say.
I disagree. What you told them you paid for it is irrelevant - the insurance industry works on 'market value' not what you paid for something. All policies I've seen recently specifically say market value.In 2013 I bought a TVR Chimaera. Switched on to an existing insurance policy for the car it replaced.
In summer 2014 it got its own policy. The insurer asked what I had paid for it and I told them.
Sadly it was written off in spring 2015 - at the time, it was for sale for around 25% more than I had paid - which, market wise, meant someone was going to get a good deal.
The insurers first offer was, after excess, exactly what I had paid for it. When I said "thanks, I want to check a few things before deciding whether to accept" the response came:
"That IS what you told us you had paid for it, sir.."
Which told me that they'd pull me up for under-insuring if I asked for more, at which point my policy would be void.
I'd just call them and see what they say.
I think the concept of "market value" applies only to a depreciating car where the depreciation curve is known.
While insurance companies can be tw**ts, unless you are dealing with a specialist then you will be insured on maximum risk of the cars value when bought. It is not reasonable to expect an insurance company to pay more if the market turns the other way...it is the owners job to re-insure in that instance, unless of course you don't object to the IC increasing your premium at their will during the year.
I would have thought that being offered purchase price on a write-off was a result in itself. Some chap at work complained to me the other week that he was "only" being offered 1700 on his 12 year old avensis with 170k. I told him that they had made a mistake for sure but in his favour.
While insurance companies can be tw**ts, unless you are dealing with a specialist then you will be insured on maximum risk of the cars value when bought. It is not reasonable to expect an insurance company to pay more if the market turns the other way...it is the owners job to re-insure in that instance, unless of course you don't object to the IC increasing your premium at their will during the year.
I would have thought that being offered purchase price on a write-off was a result in itself. Some chap at work complained to me the other week that he was "only" being offered 1700 on his 12 year old avensis with 170k. I told him that they had made a mistake for sure but in his favour.
Go to a specialist and insure it to an agreed value. You will need to prove condition with photos etc but as long as you are realistic there should not be much resistance.
Be mindful that a lot of companies offering agreed value policies, will offer no refund if you have paid in full and sell the vehicle mid way through the term.
Adrian Flux is a company that does agreed values, but the no refund issue is their policy so beware. I had a good ding dong with them when I sold my classic mini so read the terms and conditions, in fact better off not using Flux, they are to big now and I would not trust them.
Good luck
Be mindful that a lot of companies offering agreed value policies, will offer no refund if you have paid in full and sell the vehicle mid way through the term.
Adrian Flux is a company that does agreed values, but the no refund issue is their policy so beware. I had a good ding dong with them when I sold my classic mini so read the terms and conditions, in fact better off not using Flux, they are to big now and I would not trust them.
Good luck
MrBurt said:
Go to a specialist and insure it to an agreed value. You will need to prove condition with photos etc but as long as you are realistic there should not be much resistance.
Be mindful that a lot of companies offering agreed value policies, will offer no refund if you have paid in full and sell the vehicle mid way through the term.
Adrian Flux is a company that does agreed values, but the no refund issue is their policy so beware. I had a good ding dong with them when I sold my classic mini so read the terms and conditions, in fact better off not using Flux, they are to big now and I would not trust them.
Good luck
Why wouldn't you trust AF?Be mindful that a lot of companies offering agreed value policies, will offer no refund if you have paid in full and sell the vehicle mid way through the term.
Adrian Flux is a company that does agreed values, but the no refund issue is their policy so beware. I had a good ding dong with them when I sold my classic mini so read the terms and conditions, in fact better off not using Flux, they are to big now and I would not trust them.
Good luck
Who would you go with?
The principle of insurnace is generally reinstatement - putting you in a position no better and no worse than you were before the loss. But each policy has conditions and values that apply to this principle. Some might limit payout to the insured amount, some to market value. For me, I'd up the value to ensure there is no disagreement as with car policies the general assumption is the car will be worth less at the end of the policy. So appreciating cars need a more considered approach from the norm. Can't say I've ever been in that position however.
pingu393 said:
Why wouldn't you trust AF?
Who would you go with?
Well since you asked.Who would you go with?
AF would not offer me a refund as discribed. They stated it was the insurers policy which was Equity Red Star. So I contacted Red Star direct. 'Apparently' it was not their policy to offer no refund after all and they agreed to offer a pro rota refund but this would have to go via AF. If I had not pushed this issue where do you think this money would have sat?
AF then took an admin fee of 50%
By all means come to your own conclusions, I won't be touching them again EVER!
MrBurt said:
pingu393 said:
Why wouldn't you trust AF?
Who would you go with?
Well since you asked.Who would you go with?
AF would not offer me a refund as discribed. They stated it was the insurers policy which was Equity Red Star. So I contacted Red Star direct. 'Apparently' it was not their policy to offer no refund after all and they agreed to offer a pro rota refund but this would have to go via AF. If I had not pushed this issue where do you think this money would have sat?
AF then took an admin fee of 50%
By all means come to your own conclusions, I won't be touching them again EVER!
I think that I may break the habit of a lifetime and pay monthly in the year that I plan to sell .
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