F31 335d xDrive - experiences?

[drmark]

I suppose the point is to test drive the car extensively in its various permutations if poss. I run Msport adaptive with 19 inch wheels and think the car is superb for the twisty bumpy A and B roads I spend much of my time on. And I rarely use sport.
And my other car is a 911 so I like taut handlng. I just don't recognise the floaty criticisms but OP should listen to both sides - but drive first rather than assume you need after market springs. You might, you might not

[JNW1]

drmark said:

I suppose the point is to test drive the car extensively in its various permutations if poss. I run Msport adaptive with 19 inch wheels and think the car is superb for the twisty bumpy A and B roads I spend much of my time on. And I rarely use sport.
And my other car is a 911 so I like taut handlng. I just don't recognise the floaty criticisms but OP should listen to both sides - but drive first rather than assume you need after market springs. You might, you might not

Good advice to the OP although finding cars with different specs that you can drive back to back over the same roads might not be that easy! Slightly surprised you don't find your F31 a bit floaty on A and B roads, especially if you're running in comfort most of the time and have a 911 as a benchmark for comparison! However, if you're happy with the standard set-up that's fine - £600 on after-market springs clearly wouldn't be worth it in your case!

[Osinjak]

I test drove a 330d xDrive a little while ago and I was genuinely surprised at how good the ride was on 19s. Some years ago I test drove a 3 Series convertible M Sport on 19s and I hated it within 20 yards, the ride was just laughably bad and I couldn't believe that anyone would voluntarily spec a car like that. I half expected it to be similar with the 330d but the two could not be further apart if they tried. Anyway, after the 330d test I got back in my E91 335d and immediately noticed how much more focused and tighter it was compared to the xDrive and vowed that if ever I bought an F31 I would spec Adaptive as an absolute must. I don't drive at ten tenths all the time but there are a few roads near where I live that lend themselves to a more spirited drive. Shame there's not an LCI to make a comparison yet.

[JNW1]

Osinjak said:

I test drove a 330d xDrive a little while ago and I was genuinely surprised at how good the ride was on 19s. Some years ago I test drove a 3 Series convertible M Sport on 19s and I hated it within 20 yards, the ride was just laughably bad and I couldn't believe that anyone would voluntarily spec a car like that. I half expected it to be similar with the 330d but the two could not be further apart if they tried. Anyway, after the 330d test I got back in my E91 335d and immediately noticed how much more focused and tighter it was compared to the xDrive and vowed that if ever I bought an F31 I would spec Adaptive as an absolute must. I don't drive at ten tenths all the time but there are a few roads near where I live that lend themselves to a more spirited drive. Shame there's not an LCI to make a comparison yet.

I don't have an issue with the ride comfort of the F31 (I actually think it's very good), for me it's more about whether as a result of being so comfortable it's a bit too soft when you try to go quickly along the twisty bits. Some owners clearly think it's fine while others think it isn't (especially those who don't have adaptive suspension); as DrMark said in his post earlier, I think the only answer is to try cars with and without adaptive and make-up your own mind. Some may be happy with a standard car without adaptive, others may think that's too soft but with adaptive in sport mode its ok, others may think the car needs upgraded springs regardless of whether adaptive is fitted or not!

[julian64]

JNW1 said:

Osinjak said:

I test drove a 330d xDrive a little while ago and I was genuinely surprised at how good the ride was on 19s. Some years ago I test drove a 3 Series convertible M Sport on 19s and I hated it within 20 yards, the ride was just laughably bad and I couldn't believe that anyone would voluntarily spec a car like that. I half expected it to be similar with the 330d but the two could not be further apart if they tried. Anyway, after the 330d test I got back in my E91 335d and immediately noticed how much more focused and tighter it was compared to the xDrive and vowed that if ever I bought an F31 I would spec Adaptive as an absolute must. I don't drive at ten tenths all the time but there are a few roads near where I live that lend themselves to a more spirited drive. Shame there's not an LCI to make a comparison yet.

I don't have an issue with the ride comfort of the F31 (I actually think it's very good), for me it's more about whether as a result of being so comfortable it's a bit too soft when you try to go quickly along the twisty bits. Some owners clearly think it's fine while others think it isn't (especially those who don't have adaptive suspension); as DrMark said in his post earlier, I think the only answer is to try cars with and without adaptive and make-up your own mind. Some may be happy with a standard car without adaptive, others may think that's too soft but with adaptive in sport mode its ok, others may think the car needs upgraded springs regardless of whether adaptive is fitted or not!

I think its even more complicated than this

The ACS are presumably stiffer than the standard springs. When you try to tease out the wood from trees in posts that are talking about damping rather than springer rate, and just confine yourself to spring rate it seems most people prefer a stiffer spring rate.

So far so good, stiffer spring rate is better. The dampers won't have any effect on this. Now you have to throw into the mix that alhtough the dampers have no effect on spring rate, the tyre type and size WILL.

So cars on 19" rims with runflats are POSSIBLY compensating over the cars with 18 and have switched to normal tyres.

I have no idea whether this is actually the case but if you are comparing cars you need to take this into account.

[smashy]

Chaps,bearing in mind I am not an anal person ,and that for 30 years of driving mostly new middle of the road company cars I have just got in them and driven them no problems at all.

After a couple of days of getting in to my new F30 30d luxury ,which is on standard suspension I was as they say gutted.I couldnt believe what I had bought,I didnt test because thinking it would be far better than my SE one series on 16" tyres which I had had from 6 months old

Compared to my 7 year old 120d SE I had part exchanged the suspension and 18" tyres were awful. The howling from the tyres on the motorway was farcial ,crashy in town,floaty and wallowy on the motorway.

Thank God for ACS Springs( and dampers) and normal tyres ,It has gone from 4/10 to 9/10.

If I had my time again I would go M sport adaptive on 17" tyres

Edited by smashy on Friday 26th June 15:32

[JNW1]

smashy said:

Chaps,bearing in mind I am not an anal person ,and that for 30 years of driving mostly new middle of the road company cars I have just got in them and driven them no problems at all.

After a couple of days of getting in to my new F30 30d luxury ,which is on standard suspension I was as they say gutted.

Compared to my 7 year old 120d SE I had part exchanged the suspension and 18" tyres were awful. The howling from the tyres on the motorway was farcial ,crashy in town,floaty and wallowy on the motorway.

Thank God for ACS( and dampers) and normal tyres ,It has gone from 4/10 to 9/10

So you've changed springs, dampers and tyres on your car? Did you do all three at the same time and if so how do you determine which of them has made a real difference?!

[Wills2]

The standard SE xdrive suspension isn't very good and lets the car down hugely, quite what the engineers were thinking when they signed off the fastest (non M) car that BMW make with that set up I'll never know.

I bought mine without a test drive (oh boy that was a mistake) and swapped it within 6 months, I fully understand why people have gone to ACS in droves to upgrade.

I will add that the s drive M sport/sport models on passive or active dampers are much better and handle like a BMW should.

Edited by Wills2 on Friday 26th June 16:19

[Osinjak]

JNW1 said:

I don't have an issue with the ride comfort of the F31 (I actually think it's very good), for me it's more about whether as a result of being so comfortable it's a bit too soft when you try to go quickly along the twisty bits. Some owners clearly think it's fine while others think it isn't (especially those who don't have adaptive suspension); as DrMark said in his post earlier, I think the only answer is to try cars with and without adaptive and make-up your own mind. Some may be happy with a standard car without adaptive, others may think that's too soft but with adaptive in sport mode its ok, others may think the car needs upgraded springs regardless of whether adaptive is fitted or not!

I actually didn't mind the ride at all and in a lot of ways it was a relief to drive something that wasn't quite so skittish. The main thing I buy my cars for nowadays are for long trips down to SE Europe (Croatia) and we usually do this twice a year, around 3000 miles a time. The E91, as long as it was on smooth roads, was brilliant at this, absolutely in its element. However, I've been compromised by RWD a couple of times hence the xDrive (nothing to do with winter, it was a gravel incline and a muddy farm track). Besides all that, I knew that after the test drive the F31 would be much more comfortable on a long drive and I'm happy to make the compromise. I'm still going to spec Adaptive (it was specced in the 330d I test drove) for those alone moments but also anticipate BMW fettling the LCI. If it's that bad, and I really don't think it will be, I'll think about changing the springs but for now I'm happy.

[JNW1]

Osinjak said:

I actually didn't mind the ride at all and in a lot of ways it was a relief to drive something that wasn't quite so skittish. The main thing I buy my cars for nowadays are for long trips down to SE Europe (Croatia) and we usually do this twice a year, around 3000 miles a time. The E91, as long as it was on smooth roads, was brilliant at this, absolutely in its element. However, I've been compromised by RWD a couple of times hence the xDrive (nothing to do with winter, it was a gravel incline and a muddy farm track). Besides all that, I knew that after the test drive the F31 would be much more comfortable on a long drive and I'm happy to make the compromise. I'm still going to spec Adaptive (it was specced in the 330d I test drove) for those alone moments but also anticipate BMW fettling the LCI. If it's that bad, and I really don't think it will be, I'll think about changing the springs but for now I'm happy.

Personally I think speccing a new X-Drive without adaptive is borderline madness as the cost is relatively modest and IMO the standard car is simply too soft for spirited driving. Therefore, I think you've made the right choice and I suspect you'll be pretty happy unless you do lots of A and B road work (and even then some owners think the car's fine without a spring upgrade). It will be interesting to see what modifications and tweaks the LCI receives in the suspension department but from the sounds of it quietly fitting ACS springs (or an equivalent) as standard would go a long way to addressing the concerns expressed by some existing owners!

[Osinjak]

I'll let you know when I finally get my paws on one!

[smashy]

JNW1 ,good point ,I changed the suspension after 2 weeks about 20 miles from Rossiters in Kings lynn there was a very undulating road in a place called prick willow(yep ) my partner was with me ,going up there ,we both couldnt believe it,we were bouncing up and down off the seat ,a bit like they do on ice road truckers,i am not kidding in a way it was hilarious but ridiculous as well ,had to keep the speed down.
Coming back I found this road again,with trepidation I put my foot down and wow it was truly amazing totally planted,it was the ultimate before and after test.,,another bug bare was when braking the nose used to go down and forward drove me mad,that was gone as well.Just totally different.

However still wasnt totally satisfied ,crashy in town not as much but still there plus the road noise was not acceptable so 3 weeks in changed the tyres,its great now really is.

[JNW1]

smashy said:

JNW1 ,good point ,I changed the suspension after 2 weeks about 20 miles from Rossiters in Kings lynn there was a very undulating road in a place called prick willow(yep ) my partner was with me ,going up there ,we both couldnt believe it,we were bouncing up and down off the seat ,a bit like they do on ice road truckers,i am not kidding in a way it was hilarious but ridiculous as well ,had to keep the speed down.
Coming back I found this road again,with trepidation I put my foot down and wow it was truly amazing totally planted,it was the ultimate before and after test.,,another bug bare was when braking the nose used to go down and forward drove me mad,that was gone as well.Just totally different.

However still wasnt totally satisfied ,crashy in town not as much but still there plus the road noise was not acceptable so 3 weeks in changed the tyres,its great now really is.

So suspension was springs and dampers rather than the springs only modification that people have been talking about? Must admit I don't really have a problem with the run-flats on mine; thought they were mediocre on my old E92 335i and downright awful on my old 123d but they seem to be much better on the F31. Still might switch to conventional tyres come replacement time but don't feel the need to get rid while there's still tread on the run-flats!

[smashy]

Yes dampers as well,but I believe the springs are more important dampers more for cornering ( I think) ,as I was going up there I thought I would just do the both.

The best way of describing the Normal tyres is it feels like I have rubber between me and the road It didnt before,

[Tengocity]

When my at was standard on adaptive I would say it was too softly sprung but the dampers in comfort were right for the springs. In sport mode it felt over-damped, as if the dampers were trying to compensate for the soft springs. Perhaps the non adaptive cars would feel about right still. Overall though in whatever mode it was a disappointing sporting drive compared to any of my previous five 3 series (3xE90 and 2x E46).
After fitting the ACS springs I was much happier and there was no discernible loss of the improved ride comfort of the F30 over previous generations. I would say in comfort it seemed a bit under damped though, but in sport mode it seemed like the spring and damper rate were ideally matched. However it's still a nose heavy car and prone to understeer.
Having done the anti-roll bars now, the handling in much more neutral, and much easier to provoke the tail under power (the remap also helps with this!). It corners flatter now and I can actually use both comfort more often than before.
The anti-roll bars do give a stiffer feel to it at the rear but I'm happy with the trade off. The ACS springs have absolutely no downside compromise though, just the cost.
Changing to non runflats also made a huge difference in low speed ride comfort over sharp bumps etc.

[Osinjak]

Well I ordered my new car today and made sure I ticked the Adaptive Suspension box!

[drmark]

Just a reality check here. The F31 xdrive is a small family / compact estate / work horse and is brilliant at that. It is not a sports car. I am sure it handles better with normal tyres, better springs and ARBs etc but if you feel the need to do that sort of tweaking would if not make more sense to buy the right car in the first place? Not trying to be a tt - just a pragmatist

[Tengocity]

drmark said:

Just a reality check here. The F31 xdrive is a small family / compact estate / work horse and is brilliant at that. It is not a sports car. I am sure it handles better with normal tyres, better springs and ARBs etc but if you feel the need to do that sort of tweaking would if not make more sense to buy the right car in the first place? Not trying to be a tt - just a pragmatist

And what would the right car be?

They don't make a tourer version of the M3, and Audi don't make a A4 diesel bi turbo, and given I do 30k miles a year and want a practical, yet not huge car, that still offers lots driving performance, I'm open to your suggestions...
The Alpina D3 tourer would be better but then it cost way more than mine did. Oh, and what is it, a tuned BMW...

Otherwise I'm not sure why you feel the need to be such an apologist for BMW? They built to a price which is fair enough, and my view is that as a company that've always said the RWD is all about being the ultimate driving machine, they purposely made the market positioning of xdrive about poor weather security rather than driving performance, and therefore making handle worse than the sdrive cars!

[JNW1]

drmark said:

Just a reality check here. The F31 xdrive is a small family / compact estate / work horse and is brilliant at that. It is not a sports car. I am sure it handles better with normal tyres, better springs and ARBs etc but if you feel the need to do that sort of tweaking would if not make more sense to buy the right car in the first place? Not trying to be a tt - just a pragmatist

I understand where you're coming from with that and that's why I'm more prepared to overlook some of the deficiencies than I would be with a different type of vehicle. However, I still don't understand why BMW don't go the extra mile and send the cars out of the factory a bit better sorted; it would cost them very little extra (if anything) to do it, those that are already happy with the car as it is would remain so while those that feel it could be better would also be satisfied. People like AC Schnitzer and Birds must be thankful that BMW leave scope for after-market tuners to make notable improvements at a (relatively) modest cost but I don't really understand why BMW leave the gap in the market in the first place......

[smashy]

Fair enough dr mark and if I had known I was buying a floating blancmonge instead of a sorted bmw ........ .