What car after 335d M sport

[Welshbeef]

OP I switched from the E90 330d to a C5 RS6 18mpg on super only.... Even with s large tank I was filling up so often it got annoying

IE take a round trip to Manchester and hit traffic like I did it sucked up two tanks of fuel.... That was £215-230 in fuel alone whereas the 330d did that same trip on a single tank and had enough left over to go back to Manchester ....


Fun for sure amazing noise unbelievable traction and silly high speed acceleration. I had it a year and really enjoyed the whole experience but it wasn't cheap

[AB]

I have a 435d (so similar to you) and my brother an E92 M3.

Driving them both, the diesel is so much more relaxing, the M3 just wants you to drive it fast.

Most of the time I'd be happier in the diesel, the M3 is more of a tiring drive IMO.

This is probably down to the miles that I do I suppose, if I didn't do many then I'd be in the M3. Amazing cars.

[moffat]

I'd consider a 335i or high spec 135i Coupe if I were you. Then I would add a BMW Performance exhaust and if you've got a manual add the BMW Short Shift Kit. The 135i is very under-rated and had epic rebranded Brembos as standard and hydraulic steering (as opposed to electric).

I've had a few BMW's including a 335d Coupe, 135i Coupe, 135i Convertible and currently a 640d (had a C63 Coupe before the 640d).

The N54 35i engine is epic, and reacts very well to being chipped. My 135i had the JB3, and performance parts listed above, a BMS airbox and it was epic. In a completely different league to a 35d.

The main thing was the effortless loves to be revved performance. The noise especially on cold.

An E90 M3 is great but does need to be revved hard to really enjoy the performance (this is the reason I went for a C63). Also the mpg is horrific.

My 135i averaged 26mpg which I thought was quite good considering it had 370-380bhp and had the older N54.

With regards the other choices like the Golf R and S3 I think you will be dissappointed. I had the first iteration of Audi S3 and it was a great back road all weather weapon but with no feel. The 260bhp car is the same but with horribly light steering.

[eztiger]

yogi bear said:

I did look at the XKR as I'd prefer a coupe, but 5.0 V8 supercharged as much as it sounds the nuts will be too much of a push with running costs. Those Jags do look and sound bloody lovely though.

If you're considering an M3 the 5.0 in the XKR (or XFR) won't be much different. You might find the servicing / maintenance works out cheaper on the Jags over time as well.

Though they're v8's - different delivery to the M3.

[toasty]

eztiger said:

yogi bear said:

I did look at the XKR as I'd prefer a coupe, but 5.0 V8 supercharged as much as it sounds the nuts will be too much of a push with running costs. Those Jags do look and sound bloody lovely though.

If you're considering an M3 the 5.0 in the XKR (or XFR) won't be much different. You might find the servicing / maintenance works out cheaper on the Jags over time as well.

Though they're v8's - different delivery to the M3.

The jags are great but don't have any rear legroom and feel quite remote to drive. I always felt like I was clinging on for the ride rather than controlling it.

[Crackie]

Interesting thread..........I've been running an E92 N54 335i since late 2010; I'm also looking to change but am struggling too.

Alternative suggestions
Mapped Audi S4 http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/S4S530TFSISuper...
Mercedes E500 http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
BMW E63 650i http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

[matsoc]

Personally I would be curious to try a V8 S5, I like how it looks, it aged well, where I live in Italy it is very rare, never has to chance to drive one or know somebody who has one. I drove a A5 3.0 tdi, nothing special but with a petrol V8 under the bonnet could become interesting and now the prices should be interesting too.
Coming to the most obvious and well known (for me at least) BMWs the E92 M3 is really a wonderful car. My dad owned one for almost 2 years and I drove it many times, I remember some epic drives on my favourite roads. In that period I owned a 997.1 4S Cab and later a V8 Vantage but in pure driving terms I remember the E92 M3 as the more convincing car. Once you find the right road you can immediately appreciate the superiority of the chassis compared to a 335 or a 335d.

[cerb4.5lee]

matsoc said:

in pure driving terms I remember the E92 M3 as the more convincing car. Once you find the right road you can immediately appreciate the superiority of the chassis compared to a 335 or a 335d.

I agree with that and on the right road at the right time the E92 M3 is an absolute delight...the sticking point is that for the rest of the time you may as well be in a 335i/d though that's the problem.

[stuart-b]

cerb4.5lee said:

I agree with that and on the right road at the right time the E92 M3 is an absolute delight...the sticking point is that for the rest of the time you may as well be in a 335i/d though that's the problem.

I'd rather the 400-450 bhp sorted 335i with decent suspension and brakes and not have the worry about the rods and sudden engine grenade. I'm sure it is rare, but it will show itself more and more as the mileage increases. I was about to pull the trigger on and M3 but I couldn't live with the underlying design fault of something so fundamental - reminded me of the RMS/IMS failures in the Cayman S which I was also going to buy !. HPFP and injectors are ancillaries and easy to upgrade so I can live with that ...

[yogi bear]

stuart-b said:

I'd rather the 400-450 bhp sorted 335i with decent suspension and brakes and not have the worry about the rods and sudden engine grenade. I'm sure it is rare, but it will show itself more and more as the mileage increases. I was about to pull the trigger on and M3 but I couldn't live with the underlying design fault of something so fundamental - reminded me of the RMS/IMS failures in the Cayman S which I was also going to buy !. HPFP and injectors are ancillaries and easy to upgrade so I can live with that ...

Just Googled 's65 rod problems', didn't know this problem existed!! Sounds like if the oil has been changed regularly then the issue doesn't pop it's head up but when considering an 08/09 s65 engine that will easily have 50k on the clock this is something to think about.

[yogi bear]

moffat said:

With regards the other choices like the Golf R and S3 I think you will be disappointed.

You're not the first to say this to me.

[Smuler]

Wouldn't the M3 'rods' be covered by warranty (assuming you get one) as a fault, whereas a modded 335i be without such a warranty because it's in breach of terms. I think your biggest issue with M3 is fuel cost and whether you can get enough value added on the 'right road' as a few guys have said. There's one coming into Sytner Cardiff soon. Out of 20k budget but not sure if many in W. Wales for sale.

[yogi bear]

Smuler said:

Wouldn't the M3 'rods' be covered by warranty (assuming you get one) as a fault, whereas a modded 335i be without such a warranty because it's in breach of terms. I think your biggest issue with M3 is fuel cost and whether you can get enough value added on the 'right road' as a few guys have said. There's one coming into Sytner Cardiff soon. Out of 20k budget but not sure if many in W. Wales for sale.

Ye the fuel and tax is the main concern.

Yep not many/if any M3s for sale in this neck of the woods but don't think I've ever bought a car within a 100 miles from my home.

[stuart-b]

Smuler said:

Wouldn't the M3 'rods' be covered by warranty (assuming you get one) as a fault, whereas a modded 335i be without such a warranty because it's in breach of terms. I think your biggest issue with M3 is fuel cost and whether you can get enough value added on the 'right road' as a few guys have said. There's one coming into Sytner Cardiff soon. Out of 20k budget but not sure if many in W. Wales for sale.

You can't own a second hand (basically old car) on the basis of a warranty... 07-08 M3's are not under warranty any more and good luck getting a third party company to cough up for a new S65 engine ... I did a lot of research before I bought my car and spoke to a few people on the M3 nutter forums and independent shops in the US. The problem isn't just because of oil - many cars were grenading at 10-20k miles (and continue to do so).

There is a design fault which requires a complete rebuild with new bearings. There is not enough engines made to make it very public unless you know what you are looking for - unlike the N47 engine (which I also had!) http://store.bimmerworld.com/s65-rod-bearing-upgra...

If you buy the car and factor in the rebuild immediately, I'm sure you will have a blast, but personally I couldn't have fun knowing what potentially lurks underneath. However, I'm also aware a lot of people don't worry about it and get on and enjoy the car - it depends how much money you can afford to throw at it.

I wouldn't expect a 335i with a very mild remap to cause you any issues whatsoever. The MHD N54 Flasher has reignited the tuning scene for this engine - they are rock solid.

Edited by stuart-b on Wednesday 5th August 21:56

[Smuler]

stuart-b said:

You can't own a second hand (basically old car) on the basis of a warranty... 07-08 M3's are not under warranty any more and good luck getting a third party company to cough up for a new S65 engine ... I did a lot of research before I bought my car and spoke to a few people on the M3 nutter forums and independent shops in the US. The problem isn't just because of oil - many cars were grenading at 10-20k miles (and continue to do so).

There is a design fault which requires a complete rebuild with new bearings. There is not enough engines made to make it very public unless you know what you are looking for - unlike the N47 engine (which I also had!) http://store.bimmerworld.com/s65-rod-bearing-upgra...

If you buy the car and factor in the rebuild immediately, I'm sure you will have a blast, but personally I couldn't have fun knowing what potentially lurks underneath. However, I'm also aware a lot of people don't worry about it and get on and enjoy the car - it depends how much money you can afford to throw at it.

I wouldn't expect a 335i with a very mild remap to cause you any issues whatsoever. The MHD N54 Flasher has reignited the tuning scene for this engine - they are rock solid.

Edited by stuart-b on Wednesday 5th August 21:56

The OP could get a low mileage 2008 M3 which is an BMW Approved Used car, with a warranty from BMW themselves. I'm not saying he would buy on this basis, but surely it's an advantage and would negate somewhat the concerns.

I have a N54 335i and so I find your posts very interesting. I will read up on MHD. Thanks. I've researched and agree that tuning, for example, doesn't necessarily cause engine problems with the 335i but if such modifying is detected, then it "can get the blame" and the warranty is then voided.

[stuart-b]

Smuler said:

The OP could get a low mileage 2008 M3 which is an BMW Approved Used car, with a warranty from BMW themselves. I'm not saying he would buy on this basis, but surely it's an advantage and would negate somewhat the concerns.

I have a N54 335i and so I find your posts very interesting. I will read up on MHD. Thanks. I've researched and agree that tuning, for example, doesn't necessarily cause engine problems with the 335i but if such modifying is detected, then it "can get the blame" and the warranty is then voided.

It's horses for courses, the warranty on that M3 will renew at huge cost, especially > 60k miles. If you look to keep the car for 3-5 years it just isn't viable.

I had tuning on my previous E92 and BMW performed all the warranty work as it was nothing to do with the engine. Of course if you blow it up it's on you, but that is the same with any tuning - expect to budget some money, nothing is for free. My main point was that if he didn't want M3 running costs he could tune the N54 to be as powerful, he won't have the same handling, brakes, suspension, etc - but you can't have it all. It will be more economical but it will wear out faster if you use the power all the time. My iS already comes with FMIC, gearbox cooler, massive front brakes, chargecooler, etc - 340 bhp / 500nm, but nearly all examples are outputting more like 360-370 bhp as they are under quoted by BMW. The JB4/MHD tune will see 400 without a sweat. But the best upgrade is to change the compressors on the stock turbos which start to run out of puff at 6000+, get a larger FMIC with a bigger core and an upgraded chargepipe - we can then run 400 all day with the same PSI. You are looking at 3-4k for all that work but the car will be reliable. The gearbox in mine is the Getrag DCT which a nice room for torque increases. I've yet to get under the car to see if mine is the 600 or 700 nm version - but I haven't tuned this one yet ! FYI mine without a tune already pulls from a friends new (991) 911 Carrera, the engine + gearbox really hit above their weight.

Edited by stuart-b on Thursday 6th August 12:31

[gareth h]

You won't find one car to do it all, I sold my e46 m3 a few years ago and bought a 123d, instantly regretted it. In the end I bought a caterham to supplement the 1 series and now haVe the best of all worlds, 50mpg mile muncher and a fun car that is a real event to drive

[moffat]

Crackie said:

Interesting thread..........I've been running an E92 N54 335i since late 2010; I'm also looking to change but am struggling too.

Alternative suggestions
Mapped Audi S4 http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/S4S530TFSISuper...
Mercedes E500 http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
BMW E63 650i http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

On the above the E500 is dull to drive, and murders fuel, a C63 would have similar running costs so would be my choice.

650i - big beast with a great engine, but again a GT and certainly to big for back roads

S4 is an interesting choice, especially post REVO, AMD or APR with a Miltek exhaust.

[Welshbeef]

moffat said:

On the above the E500 is dull to drive, and murders fuel, a C63 would have similar running costs so would be my choice.

650i - big beast with a great engine, but again a GT and certainly to big for back roads

S4 is an interesting choice, especially post REVO, AMD or APR with a Miltek exhaust.

Do it properly E63 Bi turbo V8 --- a real mans car

[martin mrt]

yogi bear said:

cerb4.5lee said:

A E92 M3 will be a completely different driving experience to a mapped 335d, the 335d will have oceans of low down pull with a twitch of the toe...the M3 doesn't come alive until around 6k revs so it will come as a shock to drive.

They are epic on the top end to 8400rpm though and the chassis and LSD make the M3 feel like a different car to the standard 3 series.

If it was me I think I would be looking at the 335i with it being similar to the 335d in terms of low end punch but without the diesel clatter at idle/low revs, a V8 S5 would also tempt me I think.

I suppose a couple of things I miss out with owning a 335d is the fun factor of a petrol non turbo engine and the engine note. I imagine driving an M3 at 8000rpm would be awesome in terms of noise and fun.

I've had both E90 M3 and 2 E91 335ds (both mapped)

You won't miss anything about the 335 other than the fuel economy if you buy an E9x M3, hell I never even missed that.

Completely different drive and the "lack" of low down torque isn't really true, it has ample, just not as much as your current diesel car.

Try one, I'm sure that you will not be disappointed