The E46 325ti Appreciation Thread
Discussion
LocoBlade said:
Does anyone elses car bog down / have a flat spot for a second or so when pulling away and not bringing the revs up quite enough? I've done a throttle reset (10s ignition on step 1, then off for 10 seconds, then start?) but that hasn't helped, it also seems to be better if I turn off the traction control but I'm wondering if it's actually the bloody CDV making the clutch unpredictable and grabby so bogs it down sometimes?
Rubber trunking from MAF to inlet ok? No splits etc?LocoBlade said:
Does anyone elses car bog down / have a flat spot for a second or so when pulling away and not bringing the revs up quite enough? I've done a throttle reset (10s ignition on step 1, then off for 10 seconds, then start?) but that hasn't helped, it also seems to be better if I turn off the traction control but I'm wondering if it's actually the bloody CDV making the clutch unpredictable and grabby so bogs it down sometimes?
Mine tends to bog down more than any other car I've owned. I blame the cdv!Yep I removed it on my old 123d and it did help clutch feel a lot. It's quite easy to do but as the ti is only a temporary car for me until my M240 arrives in March, it's probably not worth the faff of getting it up in the air to do it, unless I persuade the wife I can keep it as a trackday hack that is!
Kawasicki said:
Mine tends to bog down more than any other car I've owned. I blame the cdv!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371548326799
I'd be grateful for your thoughts on the above for sale on eBay. Am going for a test drive on Saturday and would like to know what to look/listen out for. The dealer has had it for a year, and said it will come with a new MOT.
Have already had some good advice from the smoker barges thread, and was recommended to try here too.
I'd be grateful for your thoughts on the above for sale on eBay. Am going for a test drive on Saturday and would like to know what to look/listen out for. The dealer has had it for a year, and said it will come with a new MOT.
Have already had some good advice from the smoker barges thread, and was recommended to try here too.
Have a look at this list on page 2
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The one I've just bought off my sister in law is a very similar spec/age but in silver and 130k miles and to be honest it feels as solid as a 5 year old car, it went through an MOT last week with no advisories, everything inside and out works (other than a few pixels on the LCD sat nav display), the suspension feels taught and the engine is as sweet as a nut so I'd say if it feels and drives like an old car then walk away particularly at that price.
Mine might be for sale in early March if you're still looking at that time btw, I'm guessing I'm probably not a million miles from you in Hants up near Hindhead.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The one I've just bought off my sister in law is a very similar spec/age but in silver and 130k miles and to be honest it feels as solid as a 5 year old car, it went through an MOT last week with no advisories, everything inside and out works (other than a few pixels on the LCD sat nav display), the suspension feels taught and the engine is as sweet as a nut so I'd say if it feels and drives like an old car then walk away particularly at that price.
Mine might be for sale in early March if you're still looking at that time btw, I'm guessing I'm probably not a million miles from you in Hants up near Hindhead.
sussexcoast said:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371548326799
I'd be grateful for your thoughts on the above for sale on eBay. Am going for a test drive on Saturday and would like to know what to look/listen out for. The dealer has had it for a year, and said it will come with a new MOT.
Have already had some good advice from the smoker barges thread, and was recommended to try here too.
I'd be grateful for your thoughts on the above for sale on eBay. Am going for a test drive on Saturday and would like to know what to look/listen out for. The dealer has had it for a year, and said it will come with a new MOT.
Have already had some good advice from the smoker barges thread, and was recommended to try here too.
sussexcoast said:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371548326799
I'd be grateful for your thoughts on the above for sale on eBay. Am going for a test drive on Saturday and would like to know what to look/listen out for. The dealer has had it for a year, and said it will come with a new MOT.
Have already had some good advice from the smoker barges thread, and was recommended to try here too.
I'd be grateful for your thoughts on the above for sale on eBay. Am going for a test drive on Saturday and would like to know what to look/listen out for. The dealer has had it for a year, and said it will come with a new MOT.
Have already had some good advice from the smoker barges thread, and was recommended to try here too.
LocoBlade said:
Does anyone elses car bog down / have a flat spot for a second or so when pulling away and not bringing the revs up quite enough? I've done a throttle reset (10s ignition on step 1, then off for 10 seconds, then start?) but that hasn't helped, it also seems to be better if I turn off the traction control but I'm wondering if it's actually the bloody CDV making the clutch unpredictable and grabby so bogs it down sometimes?
Yes mine did, new vanos seals cured it!Mr Tidy said:
PaulGT3 said:
Yes mine did, new vanos seals cured it!
Many thanks Paul - I can do the reset and it works once or twice then defaults to the "bogging-down" mode.Off to explore vanos seals now.....!
Just curious
s m said:
Mr Tidy said:
PaulGT3 said:
Yes mine did, new vanos seals cured it!
Many thanks Paul - I can do the reset and it works once or twice then defaults to the "bogging-down" mode.Off to explore vanos seals now.....!
Just curious
Mine can be a bit as described at times unless I'm quite diligent with the throttle and a reset does help slightly. Im not sure having no throttle cable helps at all.
mark.c said:
s m said:
Mr Tidy said:
PaulGT3 said:
Yes mine did, new vanos seals cured it!
Many thanks Paul - I can do the reset and it works once or twice then defaults to the "bogging-down" mode.Off to explore vanos seals now.....!
Just curious
Mine can be a bit as described at times unless I'm quite diligent with the throttle and a reset does help slightly. Im not sure having no throttle cable helps at all.
Guess mine are still OK or have been done at some point - I notice mine had a MAF replacement early on in the service history
Doesn't look too bad a job at least if you've got a sunny afternoon
http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures/vanos_proc...
Beisan Website said:
Introduction
“Vanos” is BMW’s name for its variable valve timing units. Vanos units take on various shapes and design according to car year and model (engine model). The vanos discussed here is BMW part # 11-36-1-440-142. It’s a double vanos; meaning both the intake and exhaust valve timing is varied. This vanos unit is part of BMW 6-cylinder engines M52TU, M54, and M56. These engines were incorporated into a wide range of car models during years 1998-2006. They are found in the 3-series E46 98-05, 5-series E39 99-03 / E60 & E61 02-05, 7-series E38 98-01 / E65 & E66 02-05, Z3 E36 98-02, Z4 E85 02-05, X3 E83 03-06, X5 E53 00-06.
This vanos has been experiencing a failure. It has been diagnosed that the failure is due to deterioration of the vanos piston seal O-rings. It has been determined that these O-rings are made from Buna (Buna-N, NBR, Nitrile). Buna is a very common O-ring material, but is limited in its temperature and chemical resistance characteristics. Unfortunately it is fairing quite badly in the vanos/engine environment. The O-rings have been found to harden, shrink, and have flat surfaces. This deterioration is causing the O-rings to lose their functional characteristics and thus cause the vanos to fail. BMW has been engaged regarding this matter, but has elected to not address the issue, “No further development will be done”. New (rebuilt) vanos units are being sold with the same Buna O-rings. BMW does not provide the vanos piston seals/O-rings as a separate part.
Here is a link to the Roadfly BMW E39 forum where much of this information was first made public: http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/7494631-2...
The piston O-rings lie under and provide support to piston Teflon seal rings. Replacing the O-rings requires removing the Teflon seals to access the O-rings. The Teflon seals can not be practically removed from the piston seal grooves without damaging them. Thus replacing the O-rings necessarily requires replacing the Teflon seals.
The Buna O-rings can be replaced with O-rings made from Viton. Viton (FKM, Fluorocarbon) has similar functional characteristics to Buna, but has much higher temperature and chemical resistance characteristics. It’s also recommended for the automobile engine environment. The vanos Teflon (PTFE filled) seals are not a standard part and need to be semi-custom manufactured.
The vanos has two pistons with seals/O-rings. Each piston utilizes two seal/O-ring sizes to provide hydraulic sealing in two vanos cylinders of different sizes. Each piston also utilizes one further small O-ring. This O-ring mounts on a small cap that’s used to seal off a piston bearing. The OEM O-ring for this cap seems to also be made from Buna and is deteriorating in the same manner as the piston seal O-rings.
A vanos seals/O-rings repair kit can be acquired through Beisan Systems (bee-saan), www.beisansystems.com/products. It includes a vanos replacement set of OEM material Teflon seals and enhanced (Viton) O-rings.
Here is a link to the Roadfly BMW E39 forum where the vanos seals product was first introduced: http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/8705552-2...
Symptoms
Cars experience:
Overall loss of torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Bogging then surging at 3k RPM. Uneven power distribution and RPM transition. Engine hesitations in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Louder idle and intermittent idle RPM hiccups. Difficult takeoffs. Loss of power and bogging when AC on. Increased fuel consumption.
Repairing the vanos seals provides:
Overall increase in torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Resolution of bogging then surging at 3k RPM. Smooth even distribution of power and RPM transition. Resolution of engine hesitations in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Quiet stable idle. Smooth easy takeoffs. Improved performance when AC on. Reduced fuel consumption, by ~10%.
Cars with the M52TU engine (98/99-00) experience cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall.
In some cases the engine computer will generate a fault code. The code is usually associated with the vanos exhaust side. This is due to the powerful spring in the vanos exhaust cylinder which forces the piston out. Fault codes include:
P1520 (BMW 104, 0x68): B (exhaust) Camshaft Position Actuator (faulty reference value).
P1523 (BMW 106, 0x6A): B (exhaust) Camshaft Position Actuator Tight or Jammed (mechanically stuck).
P1397 (BMW 18, 0x12): Camshaft Position Sensor B (exhaust) Circuit.
The exhaust camshaft position sensor (CPS) is a common failure. But if replacing the exhaust CPS (w/ OEM CPS) doesn’t work then it’s likely the vanos failure.
On 01+ M54 & M56 engine cars codes P1520 & P1523 were removed. Thus code P1397 appears.
Diagnosis
With M52TU engine cars (98/99-00) with cold engine idle jolt symptoms, the vanos intake solenoid (metal cylinder) electrical connector can be removed. If the idle jolts cease then the problem is the vanos seals.
A vanos exhaust side fault code, as described above, is most likely a vanos seals failure indication.
Otherwise the vanos needs to be removed from the engine for inspection. Once the vanos cylinder covers are removed, an inspection of the piston seals fit in the cylinders will show a loose fit and thus a seals failure. Removal of the seals from the pistons will show the inner O-rings have flat spots and a loss of elasticity.
In general, a diagnosis is not necessary. The vanos Buna O-rings are deteriorating in 20k miles (32k kilometers). Thus essentially all the cars with this vanos have deteriorated O-rings and a failing vanos.
“Vanos” is BMW’s name for its variable valve timing units. Vanos units take on various shapes and design according to car year and model (engine model). The vanos discussed here is BMW part # 11-36-1-440-142. It’s a double vanos; meaning both the intake and exhaust valve timing is varied. This vanos unit is part of BMW 6-cylinder engines M52TU, M54, and M56. These engines were incorporated into a wide range of car models during years 1998-2006. They are found in the 3-series E46 98-05, 5-series E39 99-03 / E60 & E61 02-05, 7-series E38 98-01 / E65 & E66 02-05, Z3 E36 98-02, Z4 E85 02-05, X3 E83 03-06, X5 E53 00-06.
This vanos has been experiencing a failure. It has been diagnosed that the failure is due to deterioration of the vanos piston seal O-rings. It has been determined that these O-rings are made from Buna (Buna-N, NBR, Nitrile). Buna is a very common O-ring material, but is limited in its temperature and chemical resistance characteristics. Unfortunately it is fairing quite badly in the vanos/engine environment. The O-rings have been found to harden, shrink, and have flat surfaces. This deterioration is causing the O-rings to lose their functional characteristics and thus cause the vanos to fail. BMW has been engaged regarding this matter, but has elected to not address the issue, “No further development will be done”. New (rebuilt) vanos units are being sold with the same Buna O-rings. BMW does not provide the vanos piston seals/O-rings as a separate part.
Here is a link to the Roadfly BMW E39 forum where much of this information was first made public: http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/7494631-2...
The piston O-rings lie under and provide support to piston Teflon seal rings. Replacing the O-rings requires removing the Teflon seals to access the O-rings. The Teflon seals can not be practically removed from the piston seal grooves without damaging them. Thus replacing the O-rings necessarily requires replacing the Teflon seals.
The Buna O-rings can be replaced with O-rings made from Viton. Viton (FKM, Fluorocarbon) has similar functional characteristics to Buna, but has much higher temperature and chemical resistance characteristics. It’s also recommended for the automobile engine environment. The vanos Teflon (PTFE filled) seals are not a standard part and need to be semi-custom manufactured.
The vanos has two pistons with seals/O-rings. Each piston utilizes two seal/O-ring sizes to provide hydraulic sealing in two vanos cylinders of different sizes. Each piston also utilizes one further small O-ring. This O-ring mounts on a small cap that’s used to seal off a piston bearing. The OEM O-ring for this cap seems to also be made from Buna and is deteriorating in the same manner as the piston seal O-rings.
A vanos seals/O-rings repair kit can be acquired through Beisan Systems (bee-saan), www.beisansystems.com/products. It includes a vanos replacement set of OEM material Teflon seals and enhanced (Viton) O-rings.
Here is a link to the Roadfly BMW E39 forum where the vanos seals product was first introduced: http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/8705552-2...
Symptoms
Cars experience:
Overall loss of torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Bogging then surging at 3k RPM. Uneven power distribution and RPM transition. Engine hesitations in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Louder idle and intermittent idle RPM hiccups. Difficult takeoffs. Loss of power and bogging when AC on. Increased fuel consumption.
Repairing the vanos seals provides:
Overall increase in torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Resolution of bogging then surging at 3k RPM. Smooth even distribution of power and RPM transition. Resolution of engine hesitations in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Quiet stable idle. Smooth easy takeoffs. Improved performance when AC on. Reduced fuel consumption, by ~10%.
Cars with the M52TU engine (98/99-00) experience cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall.
In some cases the engine computer will generate a fault code. The code is usually associated with the vanos exhaust side. This is due to the powerful spring in the vanos exhaust cylinder which forces the piston out. Fault codes include:
P1520 (BMW 104, 0x68): B (exhaust) Camshaft Position Actuator (faulty reference value).
P1523 (BMW 106, 0x6A): B (exhaust) Camshaft Position Actuator Tight or Jammed (mechanically stuck).
P1397 (BMW 18, 0x12): Camshaft Position Sensor B (exhaust) Circuit.
The exhaust camshaft position sensor (CPS) is a common failure. But if replacing the exhaust CPS (w/ OEM CPS) doesn’t work then it’s likely the vanos failure.
On 01+ M54 & M56 engine cars codes P1520 & P1523 were removed. Thus code P1397 appears.
Diagnosis
With M52TU engine cars (98/99-00) with cold engine idle jolt symptoms, the vanos intake solenoid (metal cylinder) electrical connector can be removed. If the idle jolts cease then the problem is the vanos seals.
A vanos exhaust side fault code, as described above, is most likely a vanos seals failure indication.
Otherwise the vanos needs to be removed from the engine for inspection. Once the vanos cylinder covers are removed, an inspection of the piston seals fit in the cylinders will show a loose fit and thus a seals failure. Removal of the seals from the pistons will show the inner O-rings have flat spots and a loss of elasticity.
In general, a diagnosis is not necessary. The vanos Buna O-rings are deteriorating in 20k miles (32k kilometers). Thus essentially all the cars with this vanos have deteriorated O-rings and a failing vanos.
s m said:
Ah, it sort of masks the issue then rather than fixes it.
Guess mine are still OK or have been done at some point - I notice mine had a MAF replacement early on in the service history
Doesn't look too bad a job at least if you've got a sunny afternoon
http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures/vanos_proc...
A sunny afternoon? What is that?Guess mine are still OK or have been done at some point - I notice mine had a MAF replacement early on in the service history
Doesn't look too bad a job at least if you've got a sunny afternoon
http://www.beisansystems.com/procedures/vanos_proc...
Do you have any recommendations on what to buy? There's cheap stuff on eBay that I'm cautious of. And do you think an amateur could do this? I know it needs to be done on my car but I'm a tad nervous. Nor can I really afford to pay someone to do it.
Having started the recent discussion about hesitation and throttle lag, I had a look last night and did indeed find a small split in the flexi part of the large intake hose just above where the upper and lower half are joined by jubilee clips. I've done a temporary fix with a smear of silicone sealant and it did seem better on the way to work if not totally cured so I'll take the hose off and have a proper look at the weekend.
LocoBlade said:
Having started the recent discussion about hesitation and throttle lag, I had a look last night and did indeed find a small split in the flexi part of the large intake hose just above where the upper and lower half are joined by jubilee clips. I've done a temporary fix with a smear of silicone sealant and it did seem better on the way to work if not totally cured so I'll take the hose off and have a proper look at the weekend.
Well worth replacing the hosing from the MAF to the inletCheap enough off eBay even for BMW parts and if they've never been replaced its most likely you will have unmetered air sneaking in through splits/cracks
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