E60 Gearbox dying?
Discussion
Hi all,
So I have an E60 525D Auto (LCI) and im not sure if im just noticing this now or its just started now, but the gearbox jerks slightly from 2nd to 3rd and 1st to 2nd. Generally, at cruising speeds its perfectly fine but in town, in traffic, the gearbox seems to jump up and down the gears. I thought it may be my heavy foot causing it to happen, but lately i've felt it drop a gear when it doesnt need to or change up when it doesnt need to in town.
Naturally, I'm starting to worry - Does this mean I have a big big bill coming up soon for the gearbox?
The jerk isn't something catastrophic, I just feel it a little when I'm going from 1st to 3rd, then the car is fine.
I've done that Throttle adaptation reset, but I'm convinced it's a placebo effect as it hasn't changed anything. The car has recently had an oil service and a check-over by a bmw specialist and nothing was found. No errors on iDrive and generally the car drives fine. The gearbox has always been a "tad" jerky but I have a heavy foot so it does explain that but recently I've been noticing these jerks a little more..
Do I panic?
So I have an E60 525D Auto (LCI) and im not sure if im just noticing this now or its just started now, but the gearbox jerks slightly from 2nd to 3rd and 1st to 2nd. Generally, at cruising speeds its perfectly fine but in town, in traffic, the gearbox seems to jump up and down the gears. I thought it may be my heavy foot causing it to happen, but lately i've felt it drop a gear when it doesnt need to or change up when it doesnt need to in town.
Naturally, I'm starting to worry - Does this mean I have a big big bill coming up soon for the gearbox?
The jerk isn't something catastrophic, I just feel it a little when I'm going from 1st to 3rd, then the car is fine.
I've done that Throttle adaptation reset, but I'm convinced it's a placebo effect as it hasn't changed anything. The car has recently had an oil service and a check-over by a bmw specialist and nothing was found. No errors on iDrive and generally the car drives fine. The gearbox has always been a "tad" jerky but I have a heavy foot so it does explain that but recently I've been noticing these jerks a little more..
Do I panic?
It doesn't sound like it's dying, although an oil change won't do any harm. I find this box quite jerky in normal used compared to the new 8 speed box. I've just had the oil changed in my 535d tourer at 82k.
BMW say sealed for life, ZF say change every 60-80k miles. Oil spec is 10 years/100,000 miles.
I had a 7 Series box fully rebuilt a couple of years ago, that included valve unit and torque converter. The torque converter will give a jumpy feel, almost like kangarooing/tramping feeling on it's way out, these tend to go first. As Mark mentioned, the oil deteriorates, once this happens the seals are prone to hardening. Over time bits wear in the valve body, if i remember correctly, there's just one of the valves which causes issues, this is replaced with an oversized modified/stronger part.
BMW say sealed for life, ZF say change every 60-80k miles. Oil spec is 10 years/100,000 miles.
I had a 7 Series box fully rebuilt a couple of years ago, that included valve unit and torque converter. The torque converter will give a jumpy feel, almost like kangarooing/tramping feeling on it's way out, these tend to go first. As Mark mentioned, the oil deteriorates, once this happens the seals are prone to hardening. Over time bits wear in the valve body, if i remember correctly, there's just one of the valves which causes issues, this is replaced with an oversized modified/stronger part.
Echo comments re changing the oil, it makes a huge difference.
Are you sure it's not leaking oil? The sumps warp causing a leak but as the whole underside of the box is covered with a big felty/absorbant tray you're not likely to notice till you get some pretty obvious symptoms.
That again is a common problem, service kits are widely available but I'd recommend genuine ZF, this includes a new sump and oil etc to do the whole job in one hit.
Outside chance.. Tyre pressures can make a difference too if they're out across axles.
Are you sure it's not leaking oil? The sumps warp causing a leak but as the whole underside of the box is covered with a big felty/absorbant tray you're not likely to notice till you get some pretty obvious symptoms.
That again is a common problem, service kits are widely available but I'd recommend genuine ZF, this includes a new sump and oil etc to do the whole job in one hit.
Outside chance.. Tyre pressures can make a difference too if they're out across axles.
Thanks for all the comments, it seems a software update is the first port of call - If it doesn't work then I guess an oil change will need to be done.
Can anyone comment on a good garage in London that will be trusted to take this on? And if so, how much am I looking at for it?
The car also seems to be a bit more thirsty too recently, not sure why. It had it's oil service last week so I'm puzzled.
The "jerking" isn't that bad, it's more like a little shove when it goes from 2nd up to 3rd, then its fine. Its nothing that makes you go "OMG sh*t" just a nudge when it shifts up. On lower revs I think ive figured out the problem, I tend to have a heavy foot and I think when theres a short burst of empty road I accelerate and then let go to slow down, causing the revs to jump about abit.
I hope its nothing too catastrophic.
Can anyone comment on a good garage in London that will be trusted to take this on? And if so, how much am I looking at for it?
The car also seems to be a bit more thirsty too recently, not sure why. It had it's oil service last week so I'm puzzled.
The "jerking" isn't that bad, it's more like a little shove when it goes from 2nd up to 3rd, then its fine. Its nothing that makes you go "OMG sh*t" just a nudge when it shifts up. On lower revs I think ive figured out the problem, I tend to have a heavy foot and I think when theres a short burst of empty road I accelerate and then let go to slow down, causing the revs to jump about abit.
I hope its nothing too catastrophic.
Change the oil then, Your symptoms are mixed. Bumps are down to valve body wearing out. Mixed revs is usually early torque converter failure signs. Oil change should fix this issue.
Oil is £40 for Millermatic ATF DM.
Filter is around £85 for Meyle.
Labour is between 60 and 90 mins. If the pan has the older smaller Torx bolts on the pan expect labour to be extended 30 mins.
Any specialist or tranny rebuilder can do this job. It's easy.
Oil is £40 for Millermatic ATF DM.
Filter is around £85 for Meyle.
Labour is between 60 and 90 mins. If the pan has the older smaller Torx bolts on the pan expect labour to be extended 30 mins.
Any specialist or tranny rebuilder can do this job. It's easy.
We had the gearbox on Mrs G's e61 serviced a few months back. It wasn't cheap but it made a huge difference to the smoothness of the changes. Ours was on 110k miles at the time and clearly overdue the work.
Whereabouts in London are you OP? We tend to use GSF Motorworks in Battersea.
Whereabouts in London are you OP? We tend to use GSF Motorworks in Battersea.
A software update won't solve a problem that's only recently become apparent! That's the last thing I'd be doing to fix this problem. Oil change should really help here, and you need to confirm its not lost a few litres of fluid that's been absorbed by the undertray!
Once it's working right I'd recommend an update, i and mine done along with the full car.. it changed mine for the better, mainly stopped it been so keen to kick down and the cold running warm up 'slip' was reduced.
Once it's working right I'd recommend an update, i and mine done along with the full car.. it changed mine for the better, mainly stopped it been so keen to kick down and the cold running warm up 'slip' was reduced.
Darko92 said:
A local BMW specialist quoted me in excess of £600 for this job??? Surely that can't be right?
That sounds about right. It's the parts (incl plastic sump pan thingy) plus the litres and litres of ATF that bump the price up, especially if the garage sticks to the recommended stuff. When I got ours done, the "service pack" was £280 plus vodka and tonic plus a couple of hours labour.
http://www.incarmotorfactors.co.uk/en/0088-transmi...
Buy this, I think this is the box that the LCI 525d has.. You best double check.
Shouldn't be anymore than an hours labour although it needs to be done from cold so the car needs to be at the garage night before really.
Buy this, I think this is the box that the LCI 525d has.. You best double check.
Shouldn't be anymore than an hours labour although it needs to be done from cold so the car needs to be at the garage night before really.
Gruber said:
Darko92 said:
A local BMW specialist quoted me in excess of £600 for this job??? Surely that can't be right?
That sounds about right. It's the parts (incl plastic sump pan thingy) plus the litres and litres of ATF that bump the price up, especially if the garage sticks to the recommended stuff. When I got ours done, the "service pack" was £280 plus vodka and tonic plus a couple of hours labour.
I now have the 'momentary loss of drive' thing happening though so it looks like I need a torque converter
Given that I do 20k miles per annum, and the car is already on 80k or so - Im thinking to avoid the problem and change cars. Ive been offered a W204 C220 CDI As a direct swap with much lower miles.
If I keep my car, Ill probably go down the route of changing the oil. Hopefully it wont cost me an arm and a leg
If I keep my car, Ill probably go down the route of changing the oil. Hopefully it wont cost me an arm and a leg
Darko92 said:
Thanks for all the comments, it seems a software update is the first port of call - If it doesn't work then I guess an oil change will need to be done.
Can anyone comment on a good garage in London that will be trusted to take this on? And if so, how much am I looking at for it?
The car also seems to be a bit more thirsty too recently, not sure why. It had it's oil service last week so I'm puzzled.
I hope its nothing too catastrophic.
Based on experience I'd go along with the idea of changing the oil and the donut (guibo). I've had this done on two cars and it transformed the gear change smoothness. In the case of one of them it turned out there had been a slow leak - plastic not fantastic - which suddenly got worse, resulting in failsafe cutting in and me diverting to the local BMW specialist asafp. I had thought at the time that this may have resulted in slightly worse fuel consumption beforehand but it could have been coincidence.Can anyone comment on a good garage in London that will be trusted to take this on? And if so, how much am I looking at for it?
The car also seems to be a bit more thirsty too recently, not sure why. It had it's oil service last week so I'm puzzled.
I hope its nothing too catastrophic.
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