Buying an older used BMW - any tips?

Buying an older used BMW - any tips?

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danlightbulb

Original Poster:

1,033 posts

105 months

Saturday 29th August 2015
quotequote all
Hi guys,

Been round the houses on newer car vs older car over on the main forum. Having had a look through autotrader, am entirely surprised that I can pick up a 2000 - 2003 BMW 3 or 5 series for anywhere from £1k to £2k.

But I'm not sure what variants to look for. This will be a family car, so larger is better and prefer the tourers. Good fuel economy is important but so is a bit of punch, so want to avoid both the low performance engines and the high performing ones and go in the middle.

Will a BMW of this age be a money pit? I know condition will be important rather than mileage, but would be looking for around the 100k mile mark probably. Seems to be several on the market.

Any advice is appreciated. This will be replacing a 2003 ford mondeo TDCi hatchback, 190k miles which has seen better days.

Thanks

Collectingbrass

2,198 posts

194 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
danlightbulb said:
Hi guys,

Been round the houses on newer car vs older car over on the main forum. Having had a look through autotrader, am entirely surprised that I can pick up a 2000 - 2003 BMW 3 or 5 series for anywhere from £1k to £2k.

But I'm not sure what variants to look for. This will be a family car, so larger is better and prefer the tourers. Good fuel economy is important but so is a bit of punch, so want to avoid both the low performance engines and the high performing ones and go in the middle.

Will a BMW of this age be a money pit? I know condition will be important rather than mileage, but would be looking for around the 100k mile mark probably. Seems to be several on the market.

Any advice is appreciated. This will be replacing a 2003 ford mondeo TDCi hatchback, 190k miles which has seen better days.

Thanks
I did exactly that a year ago, and bought for £2,750 a 51 plate E39 525i saloon at 63K miles to replace my 1.8 petrol Mondeo. A year previously I bought for £1,250 an R plate E36 328 cabriolet at 93K miles and looked at plenty of E36 cabriolets and coupes before landing on that one.

Even though the Mondea is a later generation, overall a BMW of that era is a different world to the Mondeo. They are much more refined and a class above the Mondeo. They return about the same real world MPG, but effortlessley and much more quietly. If I had to replace the E39 I would go for another, not back to the Mondeo. As I understand it, the next generation of BMWs (E46 3 series and E60 5 series) aren't as good although personally I don't know. I suspect that at that price point they are more likely to be dogs, but I've never looked into it.

As for money pits, firstly they are 6 pot BMWs. That alone means things like a service are more expensive than for the Ford, just because the engines are bigger. However, if you buy the car carefully and can DIY (after all you are talking nearly Shed money here) or find a good independent mechanic it is cheap enough. Don't what ever you do go to the main dealer, unless someone else counts your money for you. I've found parts no more expensive via Ebay, GSF and Euro Car Parts than for the Ford, especially if you wait for GSF's 35% discount weekends or are near enough to ECP to take advantage of their 20% discount for on line order & in store collection.

Secondly you are looking at 13 - 15 year old cars. My E39 had one owner from new and FBMWSH from new till I got it. I think the previous onwer only drove it to and from the golf club near High Wycombe. The E36 had seven owners, mostly in South London and I think I am the only one apart from the first owner who kept any paper or popped the bonnet. That said, apart from a new battery and tyres the E36 hasn't cost me any money at all, whereas the E39 has needed a new radiator, a/c belt idler pulley, coil packs and it's got an oil leak I havent got round to curing yet. It sounds a lot but remembering it's a car of 15 years old that's never been "driven enthusiastically" till I got hold of it I think I have got away lightly.

Both are prone to failures of the cooling system, and when I did the radiator on the E39 I did the expansion bottle, pump, thermostat and drive belts at the same time. All up it was about £300 in parts and was very easy to do. Both are extremely easy to work on and have been designed to be serviced quickly and built to last, unlike the Mondeo which I always found to be a bit of a bh.

The only other thing I would say is that every E36 I looked, and it must have been around 50 including on line, had the right hand side of the drivers seat squab worn away. Even replacement seat sets on Ebay show this problem.

As there are plenty, take your time and buy on condition. Good ones are out there.

Edited by Collectingbrass on Sunday 30th August 07:56

danlightbulb

Original Poster:

1,033 posts

105 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
Thanks for the detailed write up.

My Mondeo being a diesel with good economy, was thinking about continuing with diesels. Is this sensible on an older car? If so/if not, can you recommend which engine to go for out of the bunch?

g3org3y

20,606 posts

190 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Echo much of the above.

1) Body: BMWs of this era rust.
2) Cooling system: E39s especially are vulnerable from this point of view. Budget a refresh (unless it has been done recently by a previous owner)
3) Suspension: At this age, if not done so already will have somewhat baggy suspension. Watch out for broken springs and worn out ball joints.
4) Buy on condition/history. Engines are decent and take the mileage very well. I'd rather a well maintained 120k miler than a ropey 50k miler.
5) If you can do some of the spannering yourself, you'll save a fair bit comes service time. E36/E46 and E39s are straightforward to work on.

g3org3y

20,606 posts

190 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
danlightbulb said:
Thanks for the detailed write up.

My Mondeo being a diesel with good economy, was thinking about continuing with diesels. Is this sensible on an older car? If so/if not, can you recommend which engine to go for out of the bunch?
How much mpg are are you aiming for?

A straight six of that era will probably be getting 32-36mpg on a reasonable motorway run. Much more thirsty in town (especially with a auto box).

I'd be looking at the 2.5 and 3.0 litre petrol engines as the pick of the bunch (applicable to both the E39 and E46).

I don't have experience of the diesels but iirc the 525tds was replaced by the 530d and is very well regarded.

Best of luck in your search! smile

BigTom85

1,927 posts

170 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Going from a Mondeo I suspect you will find the 3 series too small for family duties. Have a look at one and see what you think.

BMWs of this era are likely to need a little work. All models have lots of suspension bushes that last 80-100k or so. All patrols can suffer from cooling system issues, with water pumps and radiators being common failure points. Diesels have a whole host of things that can empty your wallet, but other than making sure the crankcase vent valve is replaced for the later version and the swirl flaps have been blanked, then the rest of the foibles are common to all modern turbo diesels (dual mass flywheels, injectors, diesel particulate filters approx 2006 on etc.)

£2k isn't going to go very far, especially if you want a touring. I too would prefer a higher mileage looked after example than a low mileage turd.

Good luck on your hunt.

Depthhoar

673 posts

127 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Plenty of good advice in the postings above.

If you're planning on a diesel E39 you may have to look long and hard for a good one since they get snapped up quickly. Best check out the enthusiast forums classified ads section where the best cars tend to end up.

More and more owners seem to be having problems with auto boxes on E39s since they're now quite elderly cars and the boxes are just wearing out. Some will go to close to 200k miles but many seem to give issues at circa 130k and beyond; other than structural rust a major failure here will kill the car.

Buy a manual if you can find one. The manual iteration with a diesel engine also benefits from not having the dreaded swirls flaps (ingested by the engine when they fail), though many enthusiast auto diesel owners have a swirl flap delete carried out. The diesels also seem to have fewer cooling problems than their petrol siblings. No DPF and the EGR valve is a simple service item conveniently located right at the front of the engine - a breeze. I average 45+mpg in traffic-free 'A' road driving up here in the Scottish Highlands.

Rust. Did I mention rust? Have a very careful look at the jacking points since if these are in an advanced state of rot you're in for a £500+ bill (that's a very low 'mate's rate' price, too). There's plenty of cosmetic corrosion issues as well (boot lid, inside the fuel filler flap, external sills, wheel arches) but most elderly cars will have similar problems probably. I'm posting about my particular corrosion issues over in Reader's Cars.

The most expensive part of regular maintenance is keeping the suspension properly fettled. There are innumerable bushes, ball joints and arms on both axles that need replacement at about 60k mile intervals. A neglected car will tram-line, judder through the steering at certain speeds and generally feel very baggy indeed. (Most judder or steering shimmy problems are control arm related even though it feels like warped discs). A well maintained one will have a magic carpet ride and be a joy to steer on all road surfaces. A proper 4-wheel alignment after suspension work is essential. Stick with Lemforder suspension parts when refreshing (they're BMW OE but much cheaper); there are cheaper parts but they're cheaper for a reason...

Great cars: understated good looks, a great drive & proper feeling of quality throughout.

Collectingbrass

2,198 posts

194 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
danlightbulb said:
Thanks for the detailed write up.

My Mondeo being a diesel with good economy, was thinking about continuing with diesels. Is this sensible on an older car? If so/if not, can you recommend which engine to go for out of the bunch?
I would look at the difference in MPG rates, work out what that would save you over the life of the car, say two years, and see whether that offsets the purchase price difference as diesel tourings are much more sought after and the big petrols are dirt cheap for what they are.

If you have a family you really need a five series when the kids are much beyond 10 or 12, compared to the back seat space in a Mondeo. Have a think about whether a touring is really that important. Ease of loading and volume to fill are the only two places where an E39 saloon is beaten by a Mondeo. That said, the only time I've really missed it was a trip to IKEA.

danlightbulb

Original Poster:

1,033 posts

105 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
Kids bikes any my bike will be needing transport so thats the main reason. Plus ikea stuff on a semi regular basis. Ive had a half dismantled bunk bed in my mondy before. Its that kind of practicality i will still require.

Id love to be able to replace suspension components myself. Not sure i have the required skills having never worked on cars before.

Looking through AT there seem to be a range of prices with the diesel and petrol engines, cant see a pattern to it.

danlightbulb

Original Poster:

1,033 posts

105 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
From what I've seen the petrols are around 28mpg average, compared to my 45mpg mondeo that's quite a hit doing 12k per year.

Only a couple of manual diesels for under £3k and very high mileages. Most diesels are autos.

This one seems ok on the face of it? 3 litre diesel auto with 109k miles for only £1500. According to advert mpg is 37 average.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...








Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
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I have a late 530d auto saloon, get about 40mpg on a run. Round town my mpg is low, sub 30 but that is very very short trips.

As mentioned above, suspension is probably the most infuriating thing with these cars, but worth getting right as the ride is ridiculously smooth when right.

My car is quite rust free, but I have some small dimples inside my fuel filler cap that I intend to have sorted. Hopefully it's not too much of a faff to do, I've never had this kind of work done and I'm not too sure how easy a fix it is.

danlightbulb

Original Poster:

1,033 posts

105 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
quotequote all
Guys I've reconsidered my budget and would now be looking to spend up to £6k, not the £2k I mentioned at the top of the thread.

So for £6k I can get around a 2006 to 2008 model, depending on the mileage.

I would like to know about the different engine options I have. On another thread of mine, the 530i petrol engine has been suggested, but clearly not many of these around in the first place let alone for £6k, and running costs would probably be too much.

What about the lesser 2.5 litre petrol? On the downside there are not many manuals around and the autos take a hit on mpg.

And the diesels, now on my other thread diesels have been recommended to avoid because of issues such as DMF or DPF. I had to replace a DMF on my current mondy once and it was expensive so a cost I would rather avoid. But if its a one in ten year occurance then the fuel economy difference probably makes up for it?

There is a much greater choice in diesels, hardly any choice in manual petrols. Don't know what to do.



Edited by danlightbulb on Tuesday 1st September 22:12

Sohlman

590 posts

253 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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I would suggest sticking with a six cylinder car diesel or petrol. They are more reliable and go and sound better.

The 2.5 or 3.0 petrol engines are fantastic engines. Both are good performers. The 2.5 will require more revs to extract the performance and will be no better on fuel then the 3 litre. Can differ injector and coil pack failure but it's not hard to fix.

The 3 litre diesel is also a belter of an engine. Dpf issues only really apply if the car only does stop start. So as long as it regularly gets a good run of 30 mins on the motorway it should not rear its head. Swirl flaps are not on manuals, but can easily be removed by a good independent for piece of mind. All other issues are no different to any other diesel. Some times temperature sensors fail making the car run cool resulting in bad mpg, but again an easy fix.

If buying a petrol a manual gearbox suits. With the diesels the auto works really well. I suggest buying the lowest mileage car with a full history in the best condition you can find and not worry about the engine. The diesels you will love for their effortless grunt. The perils you will love for their sound

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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danlightbulb said:
So for £6k I can get around a 2006 to 2008 model, depending on the mileage.
I would get one 2007 or later, which I think is when the LCI was. However I would find yourself a low mileage, mint condition e39 over an e60 anyway, especially if you've never had one.

iSore

4,011 posts

143 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Old E39's are now money pits - unless you're lucky, they are now cars for those like myself who can do repairs themselves. The E60 is a better bet. I would go for a 2004-6 525i or 530i with the M54 engine. The engine is superb and long lasting and the six speed autos don't fk themselves in quite the way the old 5 speed autos do (split brake drums). The 6 speed manual is unbreakable but the auto suits the car better. Rust isn't on the E60 radar yet and they're getting on in years now. Leather is a must and make sure the iDrive and all the gadgets work. Tourings have all the problems of the previous E39 version - air springs, air pump and tailgate wiring.

£4000 should get a really nice one with sensible miles. Diesels are great as long as you don't have any dramas that can wipe out your fuel savings. 520d manuals love an expensive dual mass flywheel for example. Avoid the 57 plate onwards 520d with the N47 engine at all costs.