Xdrive- Needed or not?
Discussion
I guess quite a few of us were 'forced' into xDrive because we wanted the great 35d engine. It is true that xDrive means SE suspension or adaptive M Sport and both of those feel a bit too compromised for such a quick car. I expect they would be fine with a lower performance model. However there is a £600 solution to the suspension problem of ACS springs which transforms the car to handle far better than the sDrive M Sport suspension.
There is certainly a fuel economy penalty for xDrive over sDrive, although the more powerful the engine, the lower the penalty. In the winter, with winter tyres, xDrive is superb, as you might expect. My previous sDrive F10 with winters was much less able to deal with steep icy hills which I drive over frequently. If you live in a flat area, or somewhere where they grit the roads properly, sDrive is probably fine.
If you are considering a 20i or 20d engine, I would probably only take xDrive if you really need it. If I was buying again today, I would probably buy exactly the same 335d, although I would take a look at the 340i and see if I could manage with sDrive. On either car I would change the springs as BMW seem to have forgotten how to make a non-M car handle well from the factory.
There is certainly a fuel economy penalty for xDrive over sDrive, although the more powerful the engine, the lower the penalty. In the winter, with winter tyres, xDrive is superb, as you might expect. My previous sDrive F10 with winters was much less able to deal with steep icy hills which I drive over frequently. If you live in a flat area, or somewhere where they grit the roads properly, sDrive is probably fine.
If you are considering a 20i or 20d engine, I would probably only take xDrive if you really need it. If I was buying again today, I would probably buy exactly the same 335d, although I would take a look at the 340i and see if I could manage with sDrive. On either car I would change the springs as BMW seem to have forgotten how to make a non-M car handle well from the factory.
335d said:
I guess quite a few of us were 'forced' into xDrive because we wanted the great 35d engine. It is true that xDrive means SE suspension or adaptive M Sport and both of those feel a bit too compromised for such a quick car. I expect they would be fine with a lower performance model. However there is a £600 solution to the suspension problem of ACS springs which transforms the car to handle far better than the sDrive M Sport suspension.
There is certainly a fuel economy penalty for xDrive over sDrive, although the more powerful the engine, the lower the penalty. In the winter, with winter tyres, xDrive is superb, as you might expect. My previous sDrive F10 with winters was much less able to deal with steep icy hills which I drive over frequently. If you live in a flat area, or somewhere where they grit the roads properly, sDrive is probably fine.
If you are considering a 20i or 20d engine, I would probably only take xDrive if you really need it. If I was buying again today, I would probably buy exactly the same 335d, although I would take a look at the 340i and see if I could manage with sDrive. On either car I would change the springs as BMW seem to have forgotten how to make a non-M car handle well from the factory.
So an xDrive M sport model doesn't have M sport suspension unless it's the optional adaptive?There is certainly a fuel economy penalty for xDrive over sDrive, although the more powerful the engine, the lower the penalty. In the winter, with winter tyres, xDrive is superb, as you might expect. My previous sDrive F10 with winters was much less able to deal with steep icy hills which I drive over frequently. If you live in a flat area, or somewhere where they grit the roads properly, sDrive is probably fine.
If you are considering a 20i or 20d engine, I would probably only take xDrive if you really need it. If I was buying again today, I would probably buy exactly the same 335d, although I would take a look at the 340i and see if I could manage with sDrive. On either car I would change the springs as BMW seem to have forgotten how to make a non-M car handle well from the factory.
But putting the A C springs on it is a much better option anyway?
Thehossdog said:
So an xDrive M sport model doesn't have M sport suspension unless it's the optional adaptive?
But putting the A C springs on it is a much better option anyway?
Exactly. An xDrive M Sport model has SE suspension, although many BMW salesmen have no idea about this as they were probably selling washing machines last year. The M Sport adaptive isn't bad, but still feels under-sprung to many, including me. You get the impression that the dampers are being asked to do more than they should.But putting the A C springs on it is a much better option anyway?
However the ACS springs transform the handling, with almost no downside. The ride remains good, albeit a touch firmer. Having never modified the suspension on a car before, I was seriously impressed by the transformation. It is a lot better than an sDrive M Sport now, and I have had several as loan cars since fitting the springs. The majority who fit the springs are xDrive owners, but an increasing number of sDrive M Sport owners are now fitting them, with very positive results.
This is the thread that first got me intersted to change my Springs (and Dampers) to A C S on my s drive SE suspensioned car
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
"On Monday we fitted a set to another 335dx, owned by an ex traffic cop. Trained to the highest level, with 20 years of pursuit driving under his belt and a sensitive back injury. His verdict: "Transformed in every respect". He even commented that the car felt markedly quicker due to not wasting energy compressing the stock springs, like a fully suspended mountain bike wastes energy bouncing when pedalled on a smooth road. He's now seriously looking at the performance upgrade, exhaust and our 8.3kg forged 19" alloys..."
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
"On Monday we fitted a set to another 335dx, owned by an ex traffic cop. Trained to the highest level, with 20 years of pursuit driving under his belt and a sensitive back injury. His verdict: "Transformed in every respect". He even commented that the car felt markedly quicker due to not wasting energy compressing the stock springs, like a fully suspended mountain bike wastes energy bouncing when pedalled on a smooth road. He's now seriously looking at the performance upgrade, exhaust and our 8.3kg forged 19" alloys..."
Edited by smashy on Tuesday 1st September 20:12
Thehossdog said:
So on 20" alloys would the springs make much of a difference or are the alloys just too big for the springs to compensate
Id ring up lorcan ,he will give it to you straight a good guy or email? http://rossiters.co.uk/team.htmsmashy said:
Id ring up lorcan ,he will give it to you straight a good guy or email? http://rossiters.co.uk/team.htm
Thanks.The m performance alloys are only supplied in 20inch alloys on the 3 series but now I'm wondering if the ride will be too harsh.
I'm a few weeks into my first xdrive ownership. I was a little concerned about how it would feel but given I wanted a 335d had no option.
To be fair, in the crap rainy weather we've had in the last few weeks I've loved it - great pulling out from junctions, roundabouts etc, but it still manages to feel rwd when pushed.
I've got the optional 19" wheels and adaptive suspension and happy with it so far...time will tell.
To be fair, in the crap rainy weather we've had in the last few weeks I've loved it - great pulling out from junctions, roundabouts etc, but it still manages to feel rwd when pushed.
I've got the optional 19" wheels and adaptive suspension and happy with it so far...time will tell.
335d said:
Exactly. An xDrive M Sport model has SE suspension, although many BMW salesmen have no idea about this as they were probably selling washing machines last year. The M Sport adaptive isn't bad, but still feels under-sprung to many, including me. You get the impression that the dampers are being asked to do more than they should.
However the ACS springs transform the handling, with almost no downside. The ride remains good, albeit a touch firmer. Having never modified the suspension on a car before, I was seriously impressed by the transformation. It is a lot better than an sDrive M Sport now, and I have had several as loan cars since fitting the springs. The majority who fit the springs are xDrive owners, but an increasing number of sDrive M Sport owners are now fitting them, with very positive results.
So if you were ordering your 335d X-Drive now would you just fit ACS springs (and forget adaptive suspension) or do you think it's better to have both? From the sounds of it you'd go for the springs if it was an either/or situation but does fitting those make adaptive a waste of money or does that still bring something to the party even if you've got the ACS springs fitted?However the ACS springs transform the handling, with almost no downside. The ride remains good, albeit a touch firmer. Having never modified the suspension on a car before, I was seriously impressed by the transformation. It is a lot better than an sDrive M Sport now, and I have had several as loan cars since fitting the springs. The majority who fit the springs are xDrive owners, but an increasing number of sDrive M Sport owners are now fitting them, with very positive results.
'
My only reservation is the cost of a replacement adaptive damper. Apparently these retail at about £1500 each. I tend not to extend the warranty, so I will be relying on a goodwill contribution from BMW if these fail in years 3-6.
On balance I might go without adaptive, and perhaps replace the passive dampers and springs with ACS.
JNW1 said:
So if you were ordering your 335d X-Drive now would you just fit ACS springs (and forget adaptive suspension) or do you think it's better to have both? From the sounds of it you'd go for the springs if it was an either/or situation but does fitting those make adaptive a waste of money or does that still bring something to the party even if you've got the ACS springs fitted?
I do like adaptive with the springs, although it is actually pretty composed in Comfort mode now, so there is less need for Sport. They are also a pretty cheap option. My only reservation is the cost of a replacement adaptive damper. Apparently these retail at about £1500 each. I tend not to extend the warranty, so I will be relying on a goodwill contribution from BMW if these fail in years 3-6.
On balance I might go without adaptive, and perhaps replace the passive dampers and springs with ACS.
335d said:
I do like adaptive with the springs, although it is actually pretty composed in Comfort mode now, so there is less need for Sport. They are also a pretty cheap option.
My only reservation is the cost of a replacement adaptive damper. Apparently these retail at about £1500 each. I tend not to extend the warranty, so I will be relying on a goodwill contribution from BMW if these fail in years 3-6.
On balance I might go without adaptive, and perhaps replace the passive dampers and springs with ACS.
I have adaptive on my F31 335 and opted for it because I'd driven a 330d X-Drive on standard suspension and found it too soft for my taste on a twisty road; however, I perhaps didn't do quite enough homework because knowing what I know now I might have been tempted to just get the uprated ACS springs instead. I'm one of those that thinks that in some situations the car could still be better even with adaptive in sport mode but I probably don't drive like that often enough to make £600 on ACS springs seem worthwhile! My only reservation is the cost of a replacement adaptive damper. Apparently these retail at about £1500 each. I tend not to extend the warranty, so I will be relying on a goodwill contribution from BMW if these fail in years 3-6.
On balance I might go without adaptive, and perhaps replace the passive dampers and springs with ACS.
However, I do share your sentiment on the replacement cost of adaptive dampers (£6k for a set?
) and if I still have the car when they're required I'll definitely be investigating a passive option from someone like ACS or Birds - looks like a B3 suspension kit from Birds is less than the cost of two replacement adaptive damper units if they do indeed cost £1.5k each!Edited by JNW1 on Wednesday 2nd September 09:26
I drove a 320i XDrive auto for three days recently (on Pirelli P7 Eco tyres) and in comparison to my M135i, which was having some work done, I found:
The 320i has much more lift-off oversteer than the M135i.
Even at full lock from a standstill, the 320i will not spin the wheels coming out of wet T-junctions with full throttle applied and DSC completely off.
The 320i was much more understeery than my M135i, but that might just be suspension setup. I couldn't get it to power oversteer in the wet in the few situations I had that I could provoke it.
As for fuel efficiency compared to my M135i, the 320i was around 2 mpg more economical in my driving, at around 26 mpg average.
The 320i has much more lift-off oversteer than the M135i.
Even at full lock from a standstill, the 320i will not spin the wheels coming out of wet T-junctions with full throttle applied and DSC completely off.
The 320i was much more understeery than my M135i, but that might just be suspension setup. I couldn't get it to power oversteer in the wet in the few situations I had that I could provoke it.
As for fuel efficiency compared to my M135i, the 320i was around 2 mpg more economical in my driving, at around 26 mpg average.
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