330d or LCI 335d xdrive
Discussion
smashy said:
The thing is that se suspension is crashy on urban streets not comfortable .My ACS susp.is more comfortable.
I daresay the ACS set-up improves things but I don't agree that a standard X-Drive is crashy on urban streets; IMO the issue is more that it gets floaty and lacks body control on a twisty, undulating, road.
Welshbeef said:
Stueyd999 said:
Hi
Thanks for all the replies. The deal I am getting on the 335d is so good it's hard not to just dive in, but it's the wait for delivery whereas the 330 would come a lot sooner. I have just come out of the 520d m sport which was a great car and to be honest I wouldn't consider the 335 since I don't need all that power, but this may be my one opportunity to drive a quick car without paying a fortune. Head or heart ?
Do it - it's a great engineThanks for all the replies. The deal I am getting on the 335d is so good it's hard not to just dive in, but it's the wait for delivery whereas the 330 would come a lot sooner. I have just come out of the 520d m sport which was a great car and to be honest I wouldn't consider the 335 since I don't need all that power, but this may be my one opportunity to drive a quick car without paying a fortune. Head or heart ?
smashy said:
Well as you never agree with me that doesnt surprise me lol that suspension is pants totally and in every respect
In your opinion.I'm guessing that BMW know more about it than you. In any case, if the UK roads weren't the shame of Europe, you wouldn't need to endlessly go on about how smart you've been spending money on new springs, tyres and useless (IMO, backed up by years in the trade) sealants.
smashy said:
Well as you never agree with me that doesnt surprise me lol that suspension is pants totally and in every respect
Well, my other half refers to my car as "the limo" which doesn't suggest poor ride quality; mind you, she has an A1 Black Edition which takes crashy to a whole new level!! 
REALIST123 said:
In your opinion.
I'm guessing that BMW know more about it than you. In any case, if the UK roads weren't the shame of Europe, you wouldn't need to endlessly go on about how smart you've been spending money on new springs, tyres and useless (IMO, backed up by years in the trade) sealants.
wow you sound a friendly bloke .......All ive done is explain why I changed .....seems to me that standard suspension is on a par with their N47 TIMING CHAIN ie rubbish....re ultraseal 18k miles and treads hardly touched, .lovely chatting with you ha ha ha haI'm guessing that BMW know more about it than you. In any case, if the UK roads weren't the shame of Europe, you wouldn't need to endlessly go on about how smart you've been spending money on new springs, tyres and useless (IMO, backed up by years in the trade) sealants.
Edited by smashy on Sunday 13th September 00:12
REALIST123 said:
smashy said:
Well as you never agree with me that doesnt surprise me lol that suspension is pants totally and in every respect
In your opinion.I'm guessing that BMW know more about it than you.
nickfrog said:
REALIST123 said:
smashy said:
Well as you never agree with me that doesnt surprise me lol that suspension is pants totally and in every respect
In your opinion.I'm guessing that BMW know more about it than you.
Most detailed write up l've seen on the changes that have been made to the suspension for the LCI. All new cars tested seen to have the adaptive suspension fitted though.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/jaguar-...
"BMW has also done pretty much all it can, without making heinously expensive changes to the 3 Series’ body-in-white, to update the car’s suspension and refine its ride and handling. The suspension is now mounted to the body in five places, up from three, making it more rigid, more robust and better at supporting the car’s weight.
This has allowed BMW to apply stiffer springing to the car, it claims, without damaging comfort and refinement. It has had to strengthen the suspension arms to do that, of course – all of which is mass that needs controlling. So new twin-tube dampers are fitted as standard, with computer-controlled adaptive dampin g remaining an option. Active-ratio Variable Sport Steering is also an option. Our 340i had both options fitted."
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/jaguar-...
"BMW has also done pretty much all it can, without making heinously expensive changes to the 3 Series’ body-in-white, to update the car’s suspension and refine its ride and handling. The suspension is now mounted to the body in five places, up from three, making it more rigid, more robust and better at supporting the car’s weight.
This has allowed BMW to apply stiffer springing to the car, it claims, without damaging comfort and refinement. It has had to strengthen the suspension arms to do that, of course – all of which is mass that needs controlling. So new twin-tube dampers are fitted as standard, with computer-controlled adaptive dampin g remaining an option. Active-ratio Variable Sport Steering is also an option. Our 340i had both options fitted."
Good write up from someone over on the Bimmerfest forums about the new LCI standard suspension as compared between a 335i x-drive and the 340i x-drive. According to the reviewer it seems that the new standard set up is much better in every way and a lot of the criticisms about body roll and floaty ride have been resolved.
This is the first review of the standard LCI suspension I've seen as all the reviews of the newer cars have been with vehicles fitted with the adaptive suspension.
"Okay, so today I got a chance to drive the 1st 340xi that AFAIK is available in the state of CO. I also got to drive a 335xi for comparison. FWIW I also got offered a $1200 over invoice net deal on this car (below invoice price and .0017 MF) so deals can already be had on 340xi. Pulling trigger on this one vs waiting also means I can use $1000 drive event credit so it is tempting... I'm not sure that deals will improve enough in the Oct/Nov timeframe on the 2016s to make it worth waiting.
340xi
This car is gorgeous. Alpine white with the saddle brown interior I thought I hated, except I don't hate it... in m-sport guise I thought it was really classy and it seems as though possibly BMW has changed it just a hair, because it wasn't as orange-tinted as I recall in the other F30s I've seen. My only nit is that the car has the ash interior trim which I am not a big fan of (I would rather have aluminum). At the end of the day I don't think that is a deal breaker. This car is tempting me to the dark side (alpine white).
Equipment;
M Sport
Driver Assistance package
Top/side cams
Adaptive headlights
Navi
Leather
Overall impressions;
Such a sharp car. Only detractor was for me personally the ash wood trim doesn't really do it... although perhaps it is a better match for the saddle leather than aluminum which might be too light. Interior is noticeably upgraded from pre-LCI in many little ways from what seems like a slightly softer dash plastic to the chrome surround on switches.
Engine The engine is a beast. This is a brand new 340xi with 10 miles on the clocks that I might be buying so I wasn't interested in lighting it up but definitely got it moving along quickly. It is definitely quicker than the 335xi at everything. Engine noise isn't as pronounced as I hoped for but definitely had a little more rumble and burble than the outgoing 3.0 I6 motor.
Transmission I didn't notice too much difference in transmission between the two cars other than that the 340xi seemed a bit more eager to downshift with less throttle input... which is a plus!
Chassis. Chassis is stiff. I don't know if it is actually stiffer than pre-LCI F30 but it feels that way. Not a rattle or clunk out of it and everything seemed to be super tight.
Electronics. New Navi is much faster than the one on my 328xi (I didn't get a chance to compare it directly to the 2015 335i but I'm pretty sure it's better than that one too). For me Navigation is of really limited use and I only have it on these cars for borderline emergency use where I'm out of cell coverage or don't have time to use my cell to navigate. HK sound system is pretty good, not sure if they upgraded it from 2015 but even over BT sounded decent. I was surprised to find that some of the features that weren't supposed to work without enhanced BT were working fine. Mobile office is not present but album artwork as well as the ability to browse iPhone library over BT was working.
Steering. Oh my god it's light in comfort mode. It actually was annoying to me it was so light. I think it's lighter than the 2015 car too. I did find that in sport mode the steering weight was about perfect. I've read reviews claiming it's "too heavy" now but I didn't find that to be the case at all... it's not as hefty as E90 steering but was a good combination of heft and responsiveness. I didn't find any dead zone in steering center and it goes off center pretty quickly although perhaps just a touch slower than what I'm used to with my 328xi with VSS.
Handling. I've always found suspension on the x-drive cars lacking. "floaty" "truck-like" "boat"... you know what I mean. In particular I have always found the amount of rebound and the amount of body roll objectionable... which is why it was so noticeable in the 2015 car when compared to my 328xi with adaptive suspension. How is the 340xi suspension? It's better in every way. It is not as firm as a pure BMW sport suspension setup, but it is noticeably firmer than the outgoing 2015 xdrive suspension. Body roll is either non-existentent or negligible... I was plowing the car around light posts in a huge empty parking lot and found that it was very neutral handling in a really good way. It was actually very enjoyable to drive. Would adaptive make it better? Probably... but realistically I left my 328xi adaptive in "comfort" mode 95% of the time anyways and dare I say, the xi suspension now seems to be as good or perhaps just a touch better than the adaptive setup on my old car... it smooths out rough spots while still providing just a bit of road feel. Definitely for someone who wants RWD Sport suspension this suspension might seem too soft but it is a huge improvement for the xdrive cars in my humble opinion.
Let me provide another specific example. When going back to center in 335xi after a tight corner I could actually feel the suspension in the front end bobbing a bit. I didn't get that once in the 340xi. I was left fairly impressed that the BMW engineers really made an effort to improve the stock suspension and get some of the sporting feel back. I would probably have no problems with the suspension as a daily driver and would maybe, MAYBE miss the adaptive setup about 1 hour out of 20 driving when I would have the opportunity to really hammer the car through the twisties.
335xi
We all know everything there is to know about this car. If I'm being completely honest, it's worth the savings over the 340xi to get an outgoing 335xi but only if I found one with handling package and they are pretty much nonexistent (I would have to pay $800 to freight one in from another market at this point). The car I test drove had sport package, leather, nav, cold weather package... not badly optioned but missing a few "nice to have" items such as the driver assistance package and the HK audio. The 335xi sticker price is $55K... the price on the 340xi is $57,795... you'd think that with MSDs and just paying drive-off fees that there would be a pretty big price delta between the two, but not as much as I thought. 3/30K mile leases on both of them.... $480 per month on the 335xi sport and $599 on the 340xi (and the 340xi has more equipment...). A premium yes... worth it? Possibly, especially given the suspension improvements.
Best option for me would be to re-order a 340xi that is fairly stripped and get adaptive suspension just for the hell of it... not sure though that I can wait that long, especially when I can get a pretty good deal on the only 340xi in Colorado that has a pretty good option setup and that I could be driving immediately!"
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
This is the first review of the standard LCI suspension I've seen as all the reviews of the newer cars have been with vehicles fitted with the adaptive suspension.
"Okay, so today I got a chance to drive the 1st 340xi that AFAIK is available in the state of CO. I also got to drive a 335xi for comparison. FWIW I also got offered a $1200 over invoice net deal on this car (below invoice price and .0017 MF) so deals can already be had on 340xi. Pulling trigger on this one vs waiting also means I can use $1000 drive event credit so it is tempting... I'm not sure that deals will improve enough in the Oct/Nov timeframe on the 2016s to make it worth waiting.
340xi
This car is gorgeous. Alpine white with the saddle brown interior I thought I hated, except I don't hate it... in m-sport guise I thought it was really classy and it seems as though possibly BMW has changed it just a hair, because it wasn't as orange-tinted as I recall in the other F30s I've seen. My only nit is that the car has the ash interior trim which I am not a big fan of (I would rather have aluminum). At the end of the day I don't think that is a deal breaker. This car is tempting me to the dark side (alpine white).
Equipment;
M Sport
Driver Assistance package
Top/side cams
Adaptive headlights
Navi
Leather
Overall impressions;
Such a sharp car. Only detractor was for me personally the ash wood trim doesn't really do it... although perhaps it is a better match for the saddle leather than aluminum which might be too light. Interior is noticeably upgraded from pre-LCI in many little ways from what seems like a slightly softer dash plastic to the chrome surround on switches.
Engine The engine is a beast. This is a brand new 340xi with 10 miles on the clocks that I might be buying so I wasn't interested in lighting it up but definitely got it moving along quickly. It is definitely quicker than the 335xi at everything. Engine noise isn't as pronounced as I hoped for but definitely had a little more rumble and burble than the outgoing 3.0 I6 motor.
Transmission I didn't notice too much difference in transmission between the two cars other than that the 340xi seemed a bit more eager to downshift with less throttle input... which is a plus!
Chassis. Chassis is stiff. I don't know if it is actually stiffer than pre-LCI F30 but it feels that way. Not a rattle or clunk out of it and everything seemed to be super tight.
Electronics. New Navi is much faster than the one on my 328xi (I didn't get a chance to compare it directly to the 2015 335i but I'm pretty sure it's better than that one too). For me Navigation is of really limited use and I only have it on these cars for borderline emergency use where I'm out of cell coverage or don't have time to use my cell to navigate. HK sound system is pretty good, not sure if they upgraded it from 2015 but even over BT sounded decent. I was surprised to find that some of the features that weren't supposed to work without enhanced BT were working fine. Mobile office is not present but album artwork as well as the ability to browse iPhone library over BT was working.
Steering. Oh my god it's light in comfort mode. It actually was annoying to me it was so light. I think it's lighter than the 2015 car too. I did find that in sport mode the steering weight was about perfect. I've read reviews claiming it's "too heavy" now but I didn't find that to be the case at all... it's not as hefty as E90 steering but was a good combination of heft and responsiveness. I didn't find any dead zone in steering center and it goes off center pretty quickly although perhaps just a touch slower than what I'm used to with my 328xi with VSS.
Handling. I've always found suspension on the x-drive cars lacking. "floaty" "truck-like" "boat"... you know what I mean. In particular I have always found the amount of rebound and the amount of body roll objectionable... which is why it was so noticeable in the 2015 car when compared to my 328xi with adaptive suspension. How is the 340xi suspension? It's better in every way. It is not as firm as a pure BMW sport suspension setup, but it is noticeably firmer than the outgoing 2015 xdrive suspension. Body roll is either non-existentent or negligible... I was plowing the car around light posts in a huge empty parking lot and found that it was very neutral handling in a really good way. It was actually very enjoyable to drive. Would adaptive make it better? Probably... but realistically I left my 328xi adaptive in "comfort" mode 95% of the time anyways and dare I say, the xi suspension now seems to be as good or perhaps just a touch better than the adaptive setup on my old car... it smooths out rough spots while still providing just a bit of road feel. Definitely for someone who wants RWD Sport suspension this suspension might seem too soft but it is a huge improvement for the xdrive cars in my humble opinion.
Let me provide another specific example. When going back to center in 335xi after a tight corner I could actually feel the suspension in the front end bobbing a bit. I didn't get that once in the 340xi. I was left fairly impressed that the BMW engineers really made an effort to improve the stock suspension and get some of the sporting feel back. I would probably have no problems with the suspension as a daily driver and would maybe, MAYBE miss the adaptive setup about 1 hour out of 20 driving when I would have the opportunity to really hammer the car through the twisties.
335xi
We all know everything there is to know about this car. If I'm being completely honest, it's worth the savings over the 340xi to get an outgoing 335xi but only if I found one with handling package and they are pretty much nonexistent (I would have to pay $800 to freight one in from another market at this point). The car I test drove had sport package, leather, nav, cold weather package... not badly optioned but missing a few "nice to have" items such as the driver assistance package and the HK audio. The 335xi sticker price is $55K... the price on the 340xi is $57,795... you'd think that with MSDs and just paying drive-off fees that there would be a pretty big price delta between the two, but not as much as I thought. 3/30K mile leases on both of them.... $480 per month on the 335xi sport and $599 on the 340xi (and the 340xi has more equipment...). A premium yes... worth it? Possibly, especially given the suspension improvements.
Best option for me would be to re-order a 340xi that is fairly stripped and get adaptive suspension just for the hell of it... not sure though that I can wait that long, especially when I can get a pretty good deal on the only 340xi in Colorado that has a pretty good option setup and that I could be driving immediately!"
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
larven said:
Good write up from someone over on the Bimmerfest forums about the new LCI standard suspension as compared between a 335i x-drive and the 340i x-drive. According to the reviewer it seems that the new standard set up is much better in every way and a lot of the criticisms about body roll and floaty ride have been resolved.
It does sound like the LCI X-Drive suspension has been improved (perhaps BMW have done a deal to fit the ACS springs as standard?!) but for peace of mind I still think £500 on adaptive suspension is worth it on a £40k car! Notwithstanding the improvement our man from Colorado still suggests the LCI X-Drive would be better still with adaptive (albeit assuming his assessment is correct it appears to be less of a must have than was the case with the pre-LCI model). Edited by JNW1 on Monday 14th September 16:15
nickfrog said:
Well not really, everyone is a suspension kinematics expert, aren't they ? And most owners understand that new springs are not just for placebo effect, they actually generate massively more lateral acceleration thanks to a massive drop in COG height while affording a much lower polar moment of inertia that oe springs can only dream of !
I used to work with Ford rally team (during the Sierra and Escort Cosworth era) and suspension "experts" / spectators were always asking why our cars rode higher than their slammed tuned versions. "If you drop that down a bit mate, it will handle much better." Fine if you are driving on billiard tables but your average British road - even in our fastest tarmac spec - require a lot of travel. We found cars handled better if all 4 tyres were in contact with the road for as much time as possible - whatever their COG
.Not that AC springs slam a BMW of course. Just an OT comment
That reviewer "Would adaptive make it better? Probably... but realistically I left my 328xi adaptive in "comfort" mode 95% of the time anyways" whats he on about? Adaptive is constantly changing as it goes over the surface so is different totally to comfort on non adaptive...surely has to be the best reasonably priced option to have.
Perhaps its because he doesn't see the benefit of the different settings and probably won't use them most of the time, as I wouldn't. I read a review where the journalist was changing the setting literally as he entered a village (into Comfort), then back out onto the open road (into Sport) and into the next village (back into Comfort!). I seriously couldn't be bothered with that.
I've found it frustrating that all the LCI reviews are on cars with the adaptive suspension when BMW are telling us that the standard suspension is now stiffer and more dynamic. Most buyers won't be specifying the adaptive anyway so why don't BMW give the journalists a standard car so they can compare it like for like against the 2012 model? The review above is the only one I've found that actually talks about what the standard suspension is like on the LCI from the benefit of having driven a car without the adaptive option.
I've found it frustrating that all the LCI reviews are on cars with the adaptive suspension when BMW are telling us that the standard suspension is now stiffer and more dynamic. Most buyers won't be specifying the adaptive anyway so why don't BMW give the journalists a standard car so they can compare it like for like against the 2012 model? The review above is the only one I've found that actually talks about what the standard suspension is like on the LCI from the benefit of having driven a car without the adaptive option.
Edited by larven on Monday 14th September 17:22
smashy said:
In comfort mode with Adaptive it is constantly making changes re the road surface. In comfort on my suspension it doesnt.Hence Adaptive will be the better ride.
Are you sure that's how adaptive works on the 3-series? I thought it just altered the damper settings between relatively soft (comfort) and relatively firm (sport) whereas what you're describing is more akin to active suspension; however, to get that set-up I thought you had to go to the 5-series (and spend rather more than £500!). Could be wrong but not convinced that adaptive on a 3-series makes constant changes to the suspension to reflect the road surface?smashy said:
Larven ,not being billy big ones here but your not seeing it either. In comfort mode with Adaptive it is constantly making changes re the road surface. In comfort on my suspension it doesnt.Hence Adaptive will be the better ride.
I think the point I'm trying to make is that whilst adaptive seemed a must have option on the 2012 model, the gap perhaps may have narrowed into the 'nice to have' category for all but the keenest driver. Having the option to switch settings is also a feature of adaptive that may appeal to some, but others won't ever use.I just wish there was better journalism around the issue as it seems to have been a major criticism of the 2012 car. If the difference is so noticeable it would be good to have it confirmed by various sources, unless BMW just want them to continue to praise the adaptive so more customers will spec it on their cars.
Fair dos Lavern...and JNW1 this is intersting stuff and if you go down to Momos post and beyond if you believe what they are saying it IS fully adaptive http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
?????
EDITED..but 5 series adaptive is 3k??? cant be the same can it
?????
EDITED..but 5 series adaptive is 3k??? cant be the same can it
Edited by smashy on Monday 14th September 21:00
Ok JNW1 ,Im right ,this from the bmw build site for 3 series.It does calibrate in fractions of a second
Adaptive M Sport suspension
£ 750.00
The Adaptive M Sport Suspension is set ten millimetres lower, further increasing the vehicle's full dynamic potential. The driver can adjust the driving characteristics to enable whichever driving style is most appealing at the time – from comfortable to extremely athletic. Whichever setting is chosen, the Adaptive M Sport Suspension's electrically controlled dampers calibrate to suit the road conditions within fractions of a second. The system also uses numerous sensors that measure wheel vibrations, as well as vehicle speed, in order to achieve optimal damping and vehicle safety. COMFORT mode can be selected for relaxed travelling. SPORT mode enables a distinctly athletic suspension setting with noticeably tighter damper settings. For extremely dynamic driving, SPORT+ mode is the best choice: the DTC function (Dynamic Traction Control) is activated, which allows more wheel-slip on the drive wheels, for athletic driving that pushes the limits of the car's dynamics. However, the DSC function isn't completely disabled; rather it intervenes much later – within the limits of what is physically possible and safe – in order to stabilise the vehicle.
Benefits at a glance:
the choice of maximum dynamics or the best comfort for travelling
optimal traction and stability
an athletic driving experience, up to the limits of driving dynamics
spontaneous responsiveness from steering and drive train
Adaptive M Sport suspension
£ 750.00
The Adaptive M Sport Suspension is set ten millimetres lower, further increasing the vehicle's full dynamic potential. The driver can adjust the driving characteristics to enable whichever driving style is most appealing at the time – from comfortable to extremely athletic. Whichever setting is chosen, the Adaptive M Sport Suspension's electrically controlled dampers calibrate to suit the road conditions within fractions of a second. The system also uses numerous sensors that measure wheel vibrations, as well as vehicle speed, in order to achieve optimal damping and vehicle safety. COMFORT mode can be selected for relaxed travelling. SPORT mode enables a distinctly athletic suspension setting with noticeably tighter damper settings. For extremely dynamic driving, SPORT+ mode is the best choice: the DTC function (Dynamic Traction Control) is activated, which allows more wheel-slip on the drive wheels, for athletic driving that pushes the limits of the car's dynamics. However, the DSC function isn't completely disabled; rather it intervenes much later – within the limits of what is physically possible and safe – in order to stabilise the vehicle.
Benefits at a glance:
the choice of maximum dynamics or the best comfort for travelling
optimal traction and stability
an athletic driving experience, up to the limits of driving dynamics
spontaneous responsiveness from steering and drive train
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