Discussion
It cannot be impossible to detect! For a dealer, a simple test would be to merely drive it, let alone any more sophisticated diagnostic check. I am worried about a potential expensive warranty claim, like blown engine or turbos. In which case it could be a VERY expensive upgrade! I'm sure it's unlikely that the conversion makes failure much more likely, but they happen on standard engines even. Presumably it's not a piggy back chip one can simply remove them, but rather a reflashing of the ECU?
The upgrade is detectable, and it will all depend on how well you know the dealer as to whether you get stung for warranty costs.
It does need them to dive into the EMU code if the car isn't running when you take it in, and if a road test after repair highlights s big difference in performance (and it is, obviously, a BIG difference!) then they "could" investigate further and pull your ECU.
Also, if they do a re-install of the EMU software, you lose your DMS upgrade. oops!
It does need them to dive into the EMU code if the car isn't running when you take it in, and if a road test after repair highlights s big difference in performance (and it is, obviously, a BIG difference!) then they "could" investigate further and pull your ECU.
Also, if they do a re-install of the EMU software, you lose your DMS upgrade. oops!
dannylt said:
It cannot be impossible to detect! For a dealer, a simple test would be to merely drive it, let alone any more sophisticated diagnostic check.
Uh not sure that would be the case. I've reported problems on various occasions with a BMW, the dealer duly test drives it and brings it back, no fault found. I have had that just recently with my 05 X5. 3 months later they replaced a wheel bearing and ARB bushes!!!
I guess anything is detectable if they feel there is reason to investigate. I guess you/they would have to prove that any chargeable work is as a direct consequence of the upgrade. I know a number of Land Rover dealers who recommend the DMS upgrade, so not quite sure how that works!
>> Edited by hunttheshunt on Wednesday 22 February 14:45
I looked at the Hartge upgrades via Birds in Uxbridge, and for their 530d conversion they say the full 3 year manufacturer warranty is honoured if it's fit within 6 months of new. 12 months otherwise. I have mailed them for details on the 535d version.
www.birds.uk.com/parts-database/..%5C..%5C1-PDFs%5CE4611460200.pdf
www.birds.uk.com/parts-database/..%5C..%5C1-PDFs%5CE4611460200.pdf
That's why I said for 530d, and said I asked about the 535d. Don't see why the terms should be different.
Anyway, DMS claim the same - I just asked and got :-
"Our software upgrade to the ECU remains undetectable by BMW service and diagnostic equipment so there will be no invalidation of your BMW warranty. To back this up we place a three year warranty on our work which includes coverage in the event of invalidation by the main dealer."
Anyway, DMS claim the same - I just asked and got :-
"Our software upgrade to the ECU remains undetectable by BMW service and diagnostic equipment so there will be no invalidation of your BMW warranty. To back this up we place a three year warranty on our work which includes coverage in the event of invalidation by the main dealer."
Hartge replied saying their 535d conversion is also available, just that their website lags reality. It shows a max power of 326bhp and massive increase in torque everywhere. The warranty statement is as follows.
"The Hartge Diesel Performance Kit is guaranteed for a period of 3 years and begins on the date of installation into the customers vehicle. For vehicles less than 6 months old, a guarantee for the vehicle’s engine and transmission is provided to the expiry date of the BMW's standard guarantee (max 3 years). For vehicles registered earlier than 6 months prior to conversion, the guarantee is 12 months after installation. In all cases, a maximum of 60,000 miles applies."
Still nobody has talked about mentioning it to their insurance companies. I would be nervous if I had a crash hitting someone else and the insurance company suing me for millions.
"The Hartge Diesel Performance Kit is guaranteed for a period of 3 years and begins on the date of installation into the customers vehicle. For vehicles less than 6 months old, a guarantee for the vehicle’s engine and transmission is provided to the expiry date of the BMW's standard guarantee (max 3 years). For vehicles registered earlier than 6 months prior to conversion, the guarantee is 12 months after installation. In all cases, a maximum of 60,000 miles applies."
Still nobody has talked about mentioning it to their insurance companies. I would be nervous if I had a crash hitting someone else and the insurance company suing me for millions.
hunttheshunt said:
My mate has just his 535d estate DMS'd and I was truly amazed. It isn't so much the pace off of the line which is quite good, it's the in gear acceleration which can be almost scary. It arrives on a wall of torque.
Mighty impressive and I would think that a few 'super' cars would struglle to get past. They did my Disco too, which whilst not as quick is still impressive for the money.
I'd have one in a hearbeat!!
Certain people won't have it, (their loss), but the DMS 535d IS extremely rapid, as you rightly say.
Mine is slightly lighter than your mate's car, being a saloon and has a further 6% power and torque.
I think that where the 535d impressed me most was not just that it revved higher than i expected, up to 5000 rpm, but the power band was wider than the 530d i tried., due to the power starting earlier, the small turbo getting things going almost from idle, where there is over 300 lbs-ft and 369 lbs-ft at just 1500 rpm.
3500 rpm of very strong and useable power is excellent. The 530i i drove had about the same width of powerband, where decent power is concerned.
3500 rpm of very strong and useable power is excellent. The 530i i drove had about the same width of powerband, where decent power is concerned.
Carbon Black said:
danny, i have yet to find someone, from friends, people here or folks at the car meets who have actually told their insurers.
Not one single example of insurance premium comparison, before and after chip.
I can imagine a big hike in premium, can you?
JulianN told his insurers, as would anyone who wanted to actually be insured...
PS It all depends on how they rate the risk. For a 50k 535d the biggest risk is most likely theft I imagine? They just have to agree that an extra 70bhp doesn't really make much difference. Or at worst, the insurance should be similar to the 550i (333bhp). I'll let you know when I find someone! I'm fresh out of arguing that increasing capacity on another car makes no difference to the risk and they finally agreed, so I'm feeling lucky 
m12_nathan said:
danny, i have yet to find someone, from friends, people here or folks at the car meets who have actually told their insurers.
Not one single example of insurance premium comparison, before and after chip.
I can imagine a big hike in premium, can you?
JulianN told his insurers, as would anyone who wanted to actually be insured...
JulianN has company insurance, i believe and thus no comparison before/after, so still no example to be found.
DMS told me that 99% of people do not bother.
Are 99% of car drivers idiots?
Carbon Black said:
danny, i have yet to find someone, from friends, people here or folks at the car meets who have actually told their insurers.
Not one single example of insurance premium comparison, before and after chip.
I can imagine a big hike in premium, can you?
JulianN told his insurers, as would anyone who wanted to actually be insured...
JulianN has company insurance, i believe and thus no comparison before/after, so still no example to be found.
DMS told me that 99% of people do not bother.
Are 99% of car drivers idiots?
How the hell do DMS know whether 1% or 99% of their customers bother ????
I can only summise that DMS tell 99% of customers not to bother or inadvertantly condone this by repeating these (probably) unfounded statistics...... Allegedly.
I'm not making a judgement on whether one should or shouldn't inform their insurers, I just despise innacurate statistics (which is probably most of them ;-) )
(fortunately, I don't have such a problem with innaccurate spelling.
For the record, I have obtained an insurance quote without DMS - it is £435.61 - unfortunately, the insurance market fluctuates daily so this is probably meaningless.
Julian, they know because it is something people tend to ask and talk about when getting their car tuned.
For whatever reason, almost every driver goes away, with his increased power and doesn't bother telling the insurance company.
For example, I know 9 people with chipped cars, from Skoda fabia vRS, through Golf diesel to Lotus Exige turbo, who have not bothered mentioning the tuning to anyone.
The fact is, not many do.
For whatever reason, almost every driver goes away, with his increased power and doesn't bother telling the insurance company.
For example, I know 9 people with chipped cars, from Skoda fabia vRS, through Golf diesel to Lotus Exige turbo, who have not bothered mentioning the tuning to anyone.
The fact is, not many do.
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