Discussion
So iv been looking into getting a 6 series recently - im told and read that the fueling is marginal at best between the 645 and 630, but the 630 is a better handling car due to not being nose heavy (compared to the v8) but i wonder if that is also marginal and that you would lose out on the v8 sound and performance going of a very marginal difference in handling?
Does anybody know how the 645 performs on track, can it do a cross country trek, enjoy a day out on track and hack it back home happily? From reviews iv read it seems that its capable, also track testing times also seems that its capable in good company...
Your views?
Does anybody know how the 645 performs on track, can it do a cross country trek, enjoy a day out on track and hack it back home happily? From reviews iv read it seems that its capable, also track testing times also seems that its capable in good company...
Your views?
Have experience of the N52 engine in a 330i which is the same engine as the 630i and also had the V8 N62 engine in a X5 which is similar to the engine in the 645i...both lovely engines to be fair but the V8 wins hands down for me for noise and overall grunt.
Currently have a 640d and while it is far heavier than the 6 series you are thinking about it wouldn't be the type of car for me to use or enjoy on a track as they are built as GT cars and are more of a comfortable cruiser IMO.
I have had a M3 in the past that weighed similar to the 630i and I wouldn't have fancied taking that on a track either because the brakes aren't that great on BMW's in standard guise and you do feel their weight generally and I would be looking at something more track focused than a BMW but maybe that's just me.
Currently have a 640d and while it is far heavier than the 6 series you are thinking about it wouldn't be the type of car for me to use or enjoy on a track as they are built as GT cars and are more of a comfortable cruiser IMO.
I have had a M3 in the past that weighed similar to the 630i and I wouldn't have fancied taking that on a track either because the brakes aren't that great on BMW's in standard guise and you do feel their weight generally and I would be looking at something more track focused than a BMW but maybe that's just me.
I went out to buy a 630i once, I then test drove the 650 they had and bought that instead!
The 6 series needs a v8 imo. The 630 feels underpowered.
Fuel usage across them is much the same. Over 30k miles in mine it averaged 19mpg.
If you go V8, then go for the 650 over the 645. The 645 had crank issues.
The 6 series needs a v8 imo. The 630 feels underpowered.
Fuel usage across them is much the same. Over 30k miles in mine it averaged 19mpg.
If you go V8, then go for the 650 over the 645. The 645 had crank issues.
I had an E64 645Ci for about 8 months/15,000 miles. A really superb car. Not a natural track warrior, at all - but a supremely comfortable GT car and much happier in the twisties than you would give it credit for.
I would definitely have the V8 over the six, no question whatsoever. The car is built for it. Where you would get most frustrated on track is really the auto box, it is not a great box in manual mode at all. I think the weight would mean the car would churn through brakes and tyres scary fast too.
For going across Europe however, I can think of few finer ways.
I would definitely have the V8 over the six, no question whatsoever. The car is built for it. Where you would get most frustrated on track is really the auto box, it is not a great box in manual mode at all. I think the weight would mean the car would churn through brakes and tyres scary fast too.
For going across Europe however, I can think of few finer ways.
See the problem is i want it to be able to do a bit of both track driving and touring/weekend drives.
I dont want an out and out stripped track car if i can help it, the lads on babybmw have gave solid reviews on the 130 msport that it can do a bit of everything but then i strayed into looking at the 645/630 as another option. All the reviews im reading are giving it the thumbs up on handling but its better to ask people who own the car.
I dont expect it to set records but just be capable, i had the same sort of response with the 540 e39 when i asked about that everybody telling me its too heavy for a track car.
I dont want an out and out stripped track car if i can help it, the lads on babybmw have gave solid reviews on the 130 msport that it can do a bit of everything but then i strayed into looking at the 645/630 as another option. All the reviews im reading are giving it the thumbs up on handling but its better to ask people who own the car.
I dont expect it to set records but just be capable, i had the same sort of response with the 540 e39 when i asked about that everybody telling me its too heavy for a track car.
Pretty much every standard car will be too heavy for track use. The issue isn't so much poor handling but it'll cook brakes in 2 laps. Unless you plan to spend a few thousand buying proper brakes then forget the idea of a tourer which can also hit the track. Anything you find to do both will be too compromised at each.
thegraveltrap said:
you dont need to spend a few thousand upgrading brakes surely if you swap the fluid for racing fluid and fit uprated pads it should do a job?
my mates took his e55 amg on various track days and gets on fine.
Merc I presume come with decent brakes as standard then the same as Porsche, BMW have only recently started to invest in putting proper brakes on their cars sadly.my mates took his e55 amg on various track days and gets on fine.
I have had 7 BMW's and none of them have had decent brakes on them as standard and they have barely held up on the road, I wouldn't have wanted to take any of them on a track without investing in a big brake kit from the recognised manufacturers like AP Racing etc.
thegraveltrap said:
so basically what your saying is, dont bother - its too heavy and the brakes are too s
t for it to ever do a track day?
That's my personal view and for me it is too heavy and the brakes won't hold up too well on a track, in saying that plenty of people do take M3's on track and they are a similar weight and some take M5's and M6's on track too and they weigh near enough two tonne. t for it to ever do a track day?So if your heart is set on one then I am sure you will enjoy it and have lots of fun, I just don't see a 6 series as the sort of car that would be that rewarding to throw around a track.
The 645/650 weighs just over 1800kgs. The M6 just over 1700 kegs. Quite a long way from 2 tonnes.
No light-weight track day toy for sure but a dam sight lighter than an E55. As for how well the brakes would last, depends on the driver. You can upgrade the 645/650 to M5/6 2 piece rotors and bigger calipers easily enough, good quality upgrade pads and some 660 brake fluid will make a difference.
The 55 AMG Mercs do come as standard with 8 pot Brembos but most still run 2 piece rotors, only the "65's" that get floating rotors as standard.
The 6 series is a great GT car, I've had a 645 and now an M6 with a 55 AMG in between. The 6 series is far more nimble. If you're lucky you'll find yourself a manual 645 not sure there were any manual 650's.
No light-weight track day toy for sure but a dam sight lighter than an E55. As for how well the brakes would last, depends on the driver. You can upgrade the 645/650 to M5/6 2 piece rotors and bigger calipers easily enough, good quality upgrade pads and some 660 brake fluid will make a difference.
The 55 AMG Mercs do come as standard with 8 pot Brembos but most still run 2 piece rotors, only the "65's" that get floating rotors as standard.
The 6 series is a great GT car, I've had a 645 and now an M6 with a 55 AMG in between. The 6 series is far more nimble. If you're lucky you'll find yourself a manual 645 not sure there were any manual 650's.
Mikeeb said:
The 645/650 weighs just over 1800kgs. The M6 just over 1700 kegs. Quite a long way from 2 tonnes.
I was thinking current M5/M6 and they are near 2 tonnes, the 640d we have is around 1800kgs and to take that around a track would be the worse idea ever as it feels boat like on the road as it is and it wouldn't be my idea of fun on a track for sure. The older 6 series is a better drivers car though than the current one granted but you are still dragging 1800kgs around with the 645/650.
Mikeeb said:
Oh they are definitely not a track day toy. But if you're looking for a great GT car that fits 4 proper adults for 360 days of the year with a a few days at the track it's a good shout.
My girlfriend is 5'5" and the only way she could do the journey from Edinburgh to London in the back of my 645 in relative comfort was by lying across the seats.
Well i have said if i got a 645 i wouldnt want it to be a stripped out trackday only toy, thats my whole point - id like it to be able to go and do a trackday not be embarrassed and then drive me home without the car rattling around my head AKA stripped out tinny trackday car.
It wouldnt spend every other weekend at the track, it would be a "fast road car" mostly with 3/4 trackdays throughout the year thrown in for some fun.
OR i could get a 130i msport and use that but its not as prestige as a 6 series in my opinion and although the 130msport isnt common you see loads of 1 series on the road where as i couldnt tell you the last time i seen a 645.
My other alternative is i can get hold of a 300bhp Mazda Familia GTR, use that for fun in spring/summer and run an oil burner as a daily.
Another option was an E39 540 V8, superb drivers cars but finding a manual is almost impossible now but then would the auto box be ok to do what i want it to do?
How is your auto box on your 645 in sport mode, is it responsive enough to use on a track?
It wouldnt spend every other weekend at the track, it would be a "fast road car" mostly with 3/4 trackdays throughout the year thrown in for some fun.
OR i could get a 130i msport and use that but its not as prestige as a 6 series in my opinion and although the 130msport isnt common you see loads of 1 series on the road where as i couldnt tell you the last time i seen a 645.
My other alternative is i can get hold of a 300bhp Mazda Familia GTR, use that for fun in spring/summer and run an oil burner as a daily.
Another option was an E39 540 V8, superb drivers cars but finding a manual is almost impossible now but then would the auto box be ok to do what i want it to do?
How is your auto box on your 645 in sport mode, is it responsive enough to use on a track?
My old 650i is one of the few cars I actually miss. If it's just for fun/tracking and you don't need to think about passengers (esp. kids) then I would only consider that or the M6. You need to decide what's more important to you, mpg or performance. Space-wise it wasn't great in the back for adults. When my middle son was born we pretty much stopped using it as getting a baby seat in was a nightmare, even the official BMW one. Passenger seat right forward so uncomfortable for them as well as having to deal with the very deep bucket seats in the rear with a flat baby seat going on top. In the end it just became a weekend toy which it wasn't quite special enough for. I still miss it though - and I replaced it with a Lambo!
Edited by Pioneer on Sunday 17th January 17:09
Pioneer said:
My old 650i is one of the few cars I actually miss. If it's just for fun/tracking and you don't need to think about passengers (esp. kids) then I would only consider that or the M6. You need to decide what's more important to you, mpg or performance. Space-wise it wasn't great in the back for adults. When my middle son was born we pretty much stopped using it as getting a baby seat in was a nightmare, even the official BMW one. Passenger seat right forward so uncomfortable for them as well as having to deal with the very deep bucket seats in the rear with a flat baby seat going on top. In the end it just became a weekend toy which it wasn't quite special enough for. I still miss it though - and I replaced it with a Lambo!
The car is going to mostly be used of a weekend the odd time during the week so i can live with the struggle of fitting the babys seat in a few times over the weekend haha. Edited by Pioneer on Sunday 17th January 17:09
My question is more based on can i use this car for a few trackdays a year or would i be pissing in the wind using it?
I wanted a car that could do a long trip to the 'ring, do the track and then enjoy the drive home - the occasional weekend blast out to the evo triangle/cat and fiddle road etc thats not going to rattle my brains out like a stripped out track car would.
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