BMW 645/630.

[thegraveltrap]

Mikeeb said:

Oh they are definitely not a track day toy. But if you're looking for a great GT car that fits 4 proper adults for 360 days of the year with a a few days at the track it's a good shout.

this is exactly it, i dont want it to be a dedicated track day car - if i did i would just buy the 323 GTR that i can get hold of instead of a 645 and run an oil burner alongside it.

Do you know if it would be capable at the track? whats your opinion?

[jayemm89]

I think the reaction you'd get an any track would be a pleasant one, people will probably just be surprised you are trying it!

The things do shift pretty well when you put your foot down. Finding a manual might be good, but they are very hard to sell - 99% of them were auto or something crazy.

[gareth h]

I'd say it would be too compromised on track, I've got a 640d and its a big heavy GT, an m3 would be a much better "do any thing" car

[hornetrider]

Of course it'll go round a track ffs, it's not the Queen Mary. Ok it won't know which way a Caterham went but who gives a st, really. It'll be a blast, it just won't necessarily be super st hot fast.

[jayemm89]

gareth h said:

I'd say it would be too compromised on track, I've got a 640d and its a big heavy GT, an m3 would be a much better "do any thing" car

I am reasonably sure the 640D is the later F12/13. The E63/64 is considerably lighter - to the tune of a couple hundred kilos in certain guises.

I am fairly sure my 645 was not far off the weight of an E92 M3. They have a lot of aluminium panels, GRP boot, etc etc..

[Mikeeb]

The auto does fairly well in manual mode. If you get an 650 LCI you get steering wheel paddles too. But these are retro fitable to early cars too.

As I said before the E63 is about 1800kgs, a lot lighter than the F series.

[jayemm89]

Mike

Where are you getting that figure from? That's a fair bit higher than I recall it being - I think the 645 was around 1650-1700kg, although the cabrios were much heavier.

[thegraveltrap]

630Ci 2005-2007 1505 kg (1490 kg)
645Ci 2004-2005 1620 kg (1615 kg)
650i 2006-2007 1645 kg (1640 kg)

They are the weights of each car so they are all below what you expect them to be, i know its not going to be a caterham ffs but im not expecting it to be either lol.

[thegraveltrap]

gareth h said:

I'd say it would be too compromised on track, I've got a 640d and its a big heavy GT, an m3 would be a much better "do any thing" car

yeah but tbh the diesel isnt going to see which way the v8 went is it really? its a total different kettle of fish.

[(steven)]

thegraveltrap said:

3/4 trackdays throughout the year

A 6 series isn’t going to melt as soon as it goes out on track and there will be some fun to be had, but if you’re really thinking of doing that many track days a year, I would look elsewhere (unless you’ve got deep pockets and are happy to modify).

You will cook your brakes and wear the outside edges of your tyres. You will smash through a set of tyres a year, just because the camber won’t be set up for that kind of abuse.

I used to use my 130i as an occasional trackday car but I soon decided that due to the above reasons, I needed something more focuses and swapped it for an M3.

If you want high speed comfort, the 6 series will do you proud but if you’re going to do more than a handful of trackdays, I would consider something lighter.

[thegraveltrap]

[quote=(steven)]

A 6 series isn’t going to melt as soon as it goes out on track and there will be some fun to be had, but if you’re really thinking of doing that many track days a year, I would look elsewhere (unless you’ve got deep pockets and are happy to modify).

You will cook your brakes and wear the outside edges of your tyres. You will smash through a set of tyres a year, just because the camber won’t be set up for that kind of abuse.

I used to use my 130i as an occasional trackday car but I soon decided that due to the above reasons, I needed something more focuses and swapped it for an M3.

If you want high speed comfort, the 6 series will do you proud but if you’re going to do more than a handful of trackdays, I would consider something lighter.

[/quote]

Iv been advised to get a 130i msport because it would suit my needs as a car that can do a bit of everything well and be fun/quick on a trackday. Id set whatever car i get up suitably IE racing brake fluid, uprated pads and a proper alignment etc.

If i end up running two cars il be getting this 323 GTR which runs 12.1 seconds 1/4 mile and its AWD, rebuilt gearbox, stripped bare and repainted in pearl white (owners a panelbeater/painter by trade)....

[Pioneer]

My 650i reminded me of an old '82 928S I had. A superb continent destroyer but on twists and turns it was a bit of a boat. Long sweeping corners and straights you'd have a lot of fun - but come the twists and turns the little hot hatches will be whizzing past whilst you're looking over your shoulder checking where your back end is. Still can be a lot of fun but when they go, they really go. Lots of power going through those rears.

Edited by Pioneer on Sunday 17th January 22:40

[cerb4.5lee]

thegraveltrap said:

gareth h said:

I'd say it would be too compromised on track, I've got a 640d and its a big heavy GT, an m3 would be a much better "do any thing" car

yeah but tbh the diesel isnt going to see which way the v8 went is it really? its a total different kettle of fish.

You might be surprised, I had the V8 4.8 petrol engine in my X5 and it was 360bhp/369torque so similar to a 650i, the 640d is 310bhp/464torque and is a little heavier than a 650i but it still achieves 0 to 60 in 5.3 so not bad for a diesel.

Disclaimer...I am by no means a diesel lover because they sound st and only rev to around 5500rpm but they do have a reasonable turn of pace for an engine more associated with a bus/lorry/tractor.

[Jayyylo]

I think it's clear you want a 645 so you should get and buy one. If you don't you'll always ask "what if?".

Once you get one enjoy it for what it is and take it to a track too. If it's totally pants then sell it again. It's only a car after all so not a massive deal if it turns out to be not what you intended. On the other hand it might be perfect for what you want.

[Mikeeb]

jayemm89 said:

Mike

Where are you getting that figure from? That's a fair bit higher than I recall it being - I think the 645 was around 1650-1700kg, although the cabrios were much heavier.

My memory is obviously worst than I thought! I knew they were way under 2 tonnes.

[gareth h]

thegraveltrap said:

gareth h said:

I'd say it would be too compromised on track, I've got a 640d and its a big heavy GT, an m3 would be a much better "do any thing" car

yeah but tbh the diesel isnt going to see which way the v8 went is it really? its a total different kettle of fish.

That was my (sort of) point, (although the bid diesels can be remapped to 380hp which must be close to v8 performance)the 6 is a big heavy car and certainly wouldn't be my choice for track use, as a compromise car for road / track there are better alternatives.

[minimatan]

thegraveltrap said:

Pioneer said:

My old 650i is one of the few cars I actually miss. If it's just for fun/tracking and you don't need to think about passengers (esp. kids) then I would only consider that or the M6. You need to decide what's more important to you, mpg or performance. Space-wise it wasn't great in the back for adults. When my middle son was born we pretty much stopped using it as getting a baby seat in was a nightmare, even the official BMW one. Passenger seat right forward so uncomfortable for them as well as having to deal with the very deep bucket seats in the rear with a flat baby seat going on top. In the end it just became a weekend toy which it wasn't quite special enough for. I still miss it though - and I replaced it with a Lambo!

Edited by Pioneer on Sunday 17th January 17:09

The car is going to mostly be used of a weekend the odd time during the week so i can live with the struggle of fitting the babys seat in a few times over the weekend haha.

My question is more based on can i use this car for a few trackdays a year or would i be pissing in the wind using it?

I wanted a car that could do a long trip to the 'ring, do the track and then enjoy the drive home - the occasional weekend blast out to the evo triangle/cat and fiddle road etc thats not going to rattle my brains out like a stripped out track car would.

It's an arse-ache with the baby seat and it scratches the leather. The worst thing is that the little ones can't stretch their legs or see out of the tiny rear window - a window that is fixed. Alternatively as thegraveltrap states, the passenger seat has to be brought right forward which is a stty way to travel if you care about passenger convenience, not to mention the fact that their head/backrest occupies a large part of the view out of the passenger window.

I have taken the 645Ci to Europe and it is splendid on the motorways. I have popped into the Nordschleife and it was great fun too, sliding all over the place.

The key with the V8 E63 645Ci is to get Sport mode on and Traction Control fully off. All of a sudden, there is a BMW chassis lying underneath all of the controlling electrics. It certainly is nose-heavy, but it is a small compromise and by no means is it inaccurate when you want to get a hustle on. At least it is sure footed and pliable - the rate of knots at which the V8 hurls you forward in the upper rev range is quite spectacular too.

I have a manual and I have seen two 650Ci manuals for sale. At the moment there is one of Pistonheads and one on Autotrader. A manual, with sport mode and traction off is a good drivers car - for the driver that also loves to travel in comfort and style over long distances too.

[greghm]

I think it should be divided between:

630 - Economical

645, 650 - is there really a difference? it is all about the sound anyway.

Diesel serie 6 - again about the sound