V8 N62 Valve stem oil seals

[HerrSchnell]

eliot said:

ATM said:

I've read that BMW updated these to a later type which last longer. Does anyone know when they changed?

Indeed it would be nice to know - as i would actively avoid cars made in the "bad" years if I ever buy another. Mine was 2005 - so at least cars up to that point.

Bumping this as I'm interested in a late 650 and would be useful to know if they did this or not.

[gf15]

My Nov 2005 650 started smoking at 135k miles, when idling for longer than 5 mins, now @160k and it is smokey after about 90 seconds idling when warm. I have bitten the bullet and it goes to an indy on Monday (The Manchester based one at the end of Eliot's web page) to have the oil stem seals replaced for it's first serious work after 6 years and 120k miles in my hands.

At least it qualifies for the cheap road tax of £285, so what I saved on road tax over the last 6 years will almost cover the cost of replacing the 32 little buggers.

[helix402]

ATM said:

I've read that BMW updated these to a later type which last longer. Does anyone know when they changed?

Never, according to this:

[eliot]

I fitted elring seals to mine and they were definitely much better and did have the extra seal around the valve guide inside.
The original seals I removed were rock hard and had no flex left in them at-all, more so on the exhaust valves as you might expect.

[gf15]

I had mine done 3 weeks ago by James in Cheadle, South Manchester just off the m60 ring road. I got it from the link at the end of Eliot's thread. James is on 07444147262.
After discussing my issue, I felt confident in James. James drops the engine and gearbox to do the seals. Dropped off the car with James, The work took a little longer than planned as James found a cracked part (between cam and valve) which had to be sourced from Germany. When I got the car back, things I noticed:
1-Proper protective cover on seat and carpet, so no oily stains, shows James cares.
2- Car drove exactly as before I dropped the car into James, this is good.
3-AC worked before it went to James and worked on getting the car back, so obviously James had re-gassed it as part of the service.
4- James left a small box in the boot which contained all the parts that had been replaced including some extra gaskets.
5-The final price was precisely as per the estimate from James.

On Thursday, I had the delight of being in a horrible traffic jam, which would have normally left a blue haze over Manchester, but......there was no smoke, nothing............Well pleased.

My visit to James co-coincided with my 25 month old BMW battery starting to fail. which threw up some odd issues. I rang James to discuss if they could be related to the work done and his response was exemplary: Pop in and we will investigate and fix. However, once I replaced the battery, everything resolved itself.

Therefore, I am happy to recommend James for the superb service received at what I consider to be a very fair price.

No relation to James, just a very happy customer.

[eliot]

Thanks for the feedback.
My 24 month old genuine bmw battery also started playing up over christmas. I replaced it with a Bosch AGM battery.
It turned out that my comfort access handle was preventing the car from falling asleep (sit in the car for 20 minutes) - which I assume was draining the battery to a point where the car does a life saving power down to protect itself from further drain.

[gf15]

I replaced the BMW battery with Bosch AGM one too, which comes with a 5 year guarantee. Everything seems to be good now. Car no longer moans / complains about a battery discharge after being left for 3 or 4 days. I will keep an eye on it and check the comfort access bit. Thanks for the tip.

[ATM]

Does the engine in the e53 x5 4.8is [which I think has engine code N62] have these poor valve stem oil seals?

[iSore]

ATM]Does the engine in the e53 x5 4.8is [which I think has engine code N62 said:

have these poor valve stem oil seals?

Yes.

[ATM]

iSore said:

Yes.

Thanks

But the e53 engine is different to the 550 / 650 / 750 right?

[eliot]

The 4.8 is the N62 engine and the facelift smaller engined ones also got the N62 according to the wikipedia book of lies.

[ATM]

eliot said:

The 4.8 is the N62 engine and the facelift smaller engined ones also got the N62 according to the wikipedia book of lies.

I thought the e53 4.8 was an Alpina modified version of the old 4.4 litre from the e39.

[iSore]

ATM said:

I thought the e53 4.8 was an Alpina modified version of the old 4.4 litre from the e39.

That was the 4.6, and they eat head gaskets for breakfast as well as chain guides. The N62 is probably a better engine than the late M62.

[ATM]

iSore said:

ATM said:

I thought the e53 4.8 was an Alpina modified version of the old 4.4 litre from the e39.

That was the 4.6, and they eat head gaskets for breakfast as well as chain guides. The N62 is probably a better engine than the late M62.

The 4.8is sounds different planet awesome compared to my 550i. Is that just the exhaust?

[Cheburator mk2]

The N62 found in the E53 X5 is different - for starters it is forged, then it makes slightly different power/torque at different revs, revs higher and was only fitted in the X5 and the Morgan. It is interesting to note that the Morgans continued to receive the engine even long after BMW had seized production of the E53 X5 and were already producing the E70 X5 as well as the 5,6 and 7 series.

Weather an early N62 smokes or not is pot luck. I nearly bought a 55k FBMSH 4,8iS which was as bad a Jamaicanjerk chicken oil drum barbeque at Notting Hill Carnival during the test drive. Yet the current one, bought at 70k and at 92k 2yrs later, is as tight as a gnat's arse even after been used daily in suburban London and for towing race car duties all over the UK and Europe. Go figure... I even use the recommended 0w30 Total Quartz.

[bmwmike]

Anyone know why it just seems to be the v8 engines that suffer poor seals and not other engines from that era like n52 n53 n43 and so on?

[helix402]

The earlier four cylinders do have problems with them, N46, N45. N43s not so much.

[ATM]

Cheburator mk2 said:

The N62 found in the E53 X5 is different - for starters it is forged, then it makes slightly different power/torque at different revs, revs higher and was only fitted in the X5 and the Morgan. It is interesting to note that the Morgans continued to receive the engine even long after BMW had seized production of the E53 X5 and were already producing the E70 X5 as well as the 5,6 and 7 series.

Weather an early N62 smokes or not is pot luck. I nearly bought a 55k FBMSH 4,8iS which was as bad a Jamaicanjerk chicken oil drum barbeque at Notting Hill Carnival during the test drive. Yet the current one, bought at 70k and at 92k 2yrs later, is as tight as a gnat's arse even after been used daily in suburban London and for towing race car duties all over the UK and Europe. Go figure... I even use the recommended 0w30 Total Quartz.

So how does the x5 compare to a 5 series?

I've had a quick go in a 4.4 and it felt very e39.

If i look at a couple for sale then do i just need to leave it idling for a few mins and see if the smoke starts or does the engine need to be nicely hot first?

[eliot]

ATM said:

So how does the x5 compare to a 5 series?

I've had a quick go in a 4.4 and it felt very e39.

If i look at a couple for sale then do i just need to leave it idling for a few mins and see if the smoke starts or does the engine need to be nicely hot first?

I can't remember if it will do it from stone cold or not, but if you start the car from cold and leave it idling for say 5 minutes and the give it a good rev to over 3k - you will get a cloud of smoke like a diesel.
If you rev it again immediately, it typically wont do it again unless you leave it idling again - dont get fobbed of with the seller saying it only does it once or any other BS.
The amount of time you leave it idling to get some on revving tends to reduce over time as it gets worse.
Mine was originally a few minutes and was down to less than a minute or the time stationary at the lights or crawling traffic and it's pretty embarrassing to be driving such a nice motor that smokes like a knackered london taxi.
If it smokes very quickly, which means it's bad - there is a chance the cats or other plumbing could be gunked up.
When mine was bad, i had it tested at an MOT station - had to do a fast idle test (hold revs up and wait for smoke to clear) and it passed perfectly - so i knew that the cats were good and it was worth doing the work.

Edited by eliot on Tuesday 19th September 05:52

[Cheburator mk2]

ATM said:

So how does the x5 compare to a 5 series?

I've had a quick go in a 4.4 and it felt very e39.

If i look at a couple for sale then do i just need to leave it idling for a few mins and see if the smoke starts or does the engine need to be nicely hot first?

Depends to which one - I had an E39 540i Touring and the X5 beats it hands down. For starters the X5 has a proper hydraulic steering rack, while the E39 has the "infamous" box. On its own, it is not bad, but compared to the E53 it feels woolly and aloof. The engines - they may as well be night and day. The E39 had the early non-vanos, which arguably is better put together than the TU unit and has better top end, but "lacked" torque, while the N62 is a beast - torque and revs everywhere. The gearbox - the 5spd ZF Steptronic in the E39 is not bad, but things moved on considerably with the 6spd ZF Steptronic in the E53. The box is much better at knowing when to stay in the right gear and when to lock up the clutch. Lastly, handling - the E39 was on genuine M-Parallels with 265 and 235 Goodyear F1 Assym 2s, while the E53 is on 315 and 275 Falken FK453 SUVs. Can I say one word - grip. It is absolutely astounding and hard to believe the way the big Bus clings to the road. Did 3 laps of the Ring in this year and was laughing my head off. No 2.5 tonne machine should handle like this. 9:45 achieved on shagged rear brakes, bearing in mind we had a race car to bring back from Spa, speaks volumes.

As to the E60/61 - I cannot provide a good comparison. I had an E61 M5 for 2 years and 20k miles. That car was in a different league to anything else on the road. It would be unfair on the E53 to compare it to perhaps one of the most complete M-packages (except the stupidly small fuel tank) ever built