650i / E46 M3 / E92 330/5i

650i / E46 M3 / E92 330/5i

Author
Discussion

CharlieB

Original Poster:

525 posts

232 months

Friday 18th March 2016
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Looking for a coupe again. We now have 2 little ones, I drive very little in the week, the main car needs to be a family bus, and the second car is usually more interesting and used for driving to the station occasionally and also golf/long distance trips.

Currently have an E61 and a V40(soon to be XC60) having just last week sold my M135i.

So instead of having two diesel barges (E61/XC60) I will need something to replace the E61 to save me from boredom.

Looks like there are 3 that fit my fairly broad criteria of coupe, under 10k, 4 seats, fast, and comfortable. Which would you pick and why?

cerb4.5lee

30,189 posts

179 months

Friday 18th March 2016
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All three are nice cars to be fair with pretty punchy engines, the V8 4.8 in my old X5(same as 650i)was one of the favourite engines I've had and the the engine in my Z4M(same as E46 M3)one of the least, the engine can be problematic in the 335i and the engine in the 330i(current car) isn't all that quick...so for me it would be the 650i.

The 6 series also has a lovely interior too and will feel more special than a 3 series.

Theophany

1,069 posts

129 months

Friday 18th March 2016
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I love my E63 - awesome cruiser. Such a wonderful engine too! My mum has a 335i (E93) and that's a corker of a car too - I nearly bought it off her when considering the 6er, but has been fairly problematic given it's only done 40k since new (07). Both turbos have been refurbished and the high pressure fuel pump is sounding like it's on its last legs.

CharlieB

Original Poster:

525 posts

232 months

Friday 18th March 2016
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I think after spending some time in various turbos I do fancy going NA aspirated but it will need some shove.

I keep reading great things about the 650i, and had thought about a 630i manual, but everyone seems to say avoid that engine in that car, so to speak.

Left field choice would be a late 840 sport.

Used prices for decent 650's seem to be all over the place. FWIW This is the sort of thing I would be after.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...





cerb4.5lee

30,189 posts

179 months

Friday 18th March 2016
quotequote all
CharlieB said:
I think after spending some time in various turbos I do fancy going NA aspirated but it will need some shove.

I keep reading great things about the 650i, and had thought about a 630i manual, but everyone seems to say avoid that engine in that car, so to speak.

Left field choice would be a late 840 sport.

Used prices for decent 650's seem to be all over the place. FWIW This is the sort of thing I would be after.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
I do like that one in the advert, I think a 630i manual would be quite nice and E63 isn't anywhere near as heavy as the current 6 series, but I do completely understand why most suggest the V8 because it is silky smooth and sounds lovely too with plenty of pace thrown in.

philmots

4,630 posts

259 months

Friday 18th March 2016
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I've an e61 550i, the engine is a peach!

I'd highly recommend the 650i

CharlieB

Original Poster:

525 posts

232 months

Friday 18th March 2016
quotequote all
Seems to be heading straight down the 650i path, which is where my head is at. Interesting no shouts out for the M3.

So given the above - there appears to be early cars with the older gearbox <10k and facelift cars with the newer box >10k.

What actually came with the facelift? Is it worth paying the extra over an earlier spec car?

Incidentally my E61 is very well specced, DVD based i-drive but oddly with the newer style controller, the newer 6sp gearbox and the more powerful 2.0d (not by a lot) soft close doors etc.

Also, what are the must have options on the E63? Basically the same? Am I dreaming that there are cars out there with a full leather dash, for instance.

Cheers

Crackie

6,386 posts

241 months

Friday 18th March 2016
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E46 and 650 are very different in character; E46 has a great engine but it needs revs to come alive. Brilliant when you are pressing on but a bit ordinary below 4k revs. M3 chassis is in a different class though.

650i has a great engine too with power everywhere; slightly quicker than an E46 but it is a much heavier machine. It does a good job of hiding its weight when the going gets twisty but I didn't enjoy driving a 650i in town; it felt big and heavy and the auto box felt primitive.

335i is very close in pace to an E46; there is very little lag and power delivery is like a big NA engine. Remap a 335i and you end up with 375ish HP, over 400lb-ft and a machine that is far quicker than a 650i or E46 M3. E92 chassis is decent but B road damping isn't the best and it needs an LSD.

Not tried a 330i...

Edited by Crackie on Friday 18th March 17:16

philmots

4,630 posts

259 months

Friday 18th March 2016
quotequote all
CharlieB said:
Seems to be heading straight down the 650i path, which is where my head is at. Interesting no shouts out for the M3.

So given the above - there appears to be early cars with the older gearbox <10k and facelift cars with the newer box >10k.

What actually came with the facelift? Is it worth paying the extra over an earlier spec car?

Incidentally my E61 is very well specced, DVD based i-drive but oddly with the newer style controller, the newer 6sp gearbox and the more powerful 2.0d (not by a lot) soft close doors etc.

Also, what are the must have options on the E63? Basically the same? Am I dreaming that there are cars out there with a full leather dash, for instance.

Cheers
In the x50i they're the same ZF6 26 box, lci ones just have the nicer electronic selector rather than the more traditional one.

The software is different though, i had up to date gearbox software flashed as part of a full car update and it was quite noticeable. Mainly increased torque converter lock-up and less keen to change down (no real need with the V8)

CharlieB

Original Poster:

525 posts

232 months

Friday 18th March 2016
quotequote all
Crackie said:
335i is very close in pace to an E46; there is very little lag and power delivery is like a big NA engine. Remap a 335i and you end up with 375ish HP, over 400lb-ft and a machine that is far quicker than a 650i or E46 M3.

Edited by Crackie on Friday 18th March 17:16
The x35i (albeit the N55 single twin scroll turbo) engine I am used to from the 1er, and while not everyones viewpoint, I do like standard vehicles in terms of tuning, not sure why, but thats a fair point about a tuned 335i, the 1er was indeed rapid.

Having said that I think thats why I picked the 650i N62, the s54 and the N52/3, all are meant to be great BMW engines, I think I just fancy a change of tact for a while and go NA. For some reason, and this thread seems to suggest the same, the M3 (and E46) doesn't appeal as much, the 6er to me seems to have aged more gracefully, and is possibly more suited to my needs?

Or maybe I am just middle aged before my time!


CharlieB

Original Poster:

525 posts

232 months

Friday 18th March 2016
quotequote all
philmots said:
In the x50i they're the same ZF6 26 box, lci ones just have the nicer electronic selector rather than the more traditional one.

The software is different though, i had up to date gearbox software flashed as part of a full car update and it was quite noticeable. Mainly increased torque converter lock-up and less keen to change down (no real need with the V8)
Same selector in essence that I have in mine I suppose. LCI I think is the way forward.

cerb4.5lee

30,189 posts

179 months

Friday 18th March 2016
quotequote all
Crackie said:
Not tried a 330i...
I wouldn't bother as it will only lead to disappointment! hehe

Strangely though and even I admit it does seem crazy but I actually prefer the N52 engine to the S54 engine because although the N52 is pretty gutless...it sounds far better to me than the tinny and annoying sound that the S54 makes.

The main problem I have with the N/A engines in the M3's(S54/S65)is that you really have to thrash the life out of them to get the reward...whereas with a 330i you know it isn't a fireball but for everyday driving it does hit the spot pretty well.

The 4.8 V8 engine is the sweet spot for me though and hence my love for the 650i because it has the power and torque and it just delivers...plus it makes a wonderful noise while doing so. cloud9

Edited by cerb4.5lee on Friday 18th March 22:37

BUG4LIFE

2,007 posts

217 months

Saturday 19th March 2016
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CharlieB said:
Seems to be heading straight down the 650i path, which is where my head is at. Interesting no shouts out for the M3.

So given the above - there appears to be early cars with the older gearbox <10k and facelift cars with the newer box >10k.

What actually came with the facelift? Is it worth paying the extra over an earlier spec car?

Incidentally my E61 is very well specced, DVD based i-drive but oddly with the newer style controller, the newer 6sp gearbox and the more powerful 2.0d (not by a lot) soft close doors etc.

Also, what are the must have options on the E63? Basically the same? Am I dreaming that there are cars out there with a full leather dash, for instance.

Cheers
Where are the 650's for under £10k, as appose to a 645???

philmots

4,630 posts

259 months

Saturday 19th March 2016
quotequote all
CharlieB said:
philmots said:
In the x50i they're the same ZF6 26 box, lci ones just have the nicer electronic selector rather than the more traditional one.

The software is different though, i had up to date gearbox software flashed as part of a full car update and it was quite noticeable. Mainly increased torque converter lock-up and less keen to change down (no real need with the V8)
Same selector in essence that I have in mine I suppose. LCI I think is the way forward.
Either/or, the LCI cars are newer so will be more expensive.. I'd not pay a premium when the cars are basically the same bar some light cosmetic revisions.

Tbh the 6, i think the back of the pre lci cars look better, they seem to of made a mess of the reflectors etc on the lci cars.

CharlieB

Original Poster:

525 posts

232 months

Saturday 19th March 2016
quotequote all
BUG4LIFE said:
Where are the 650's for under £10k, as appose to a 645???
Seem to be plenty about spoke with high miles and challenging colour combinations. For a black car with sport spec and reasonable miles, granted there are less but they are out there. For example

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

gf15

980 posts

265 months

Saturday 19th March 2016
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We have had our 2005 650 for 5 years and run from 47k miles to 145k miles. I paid £15.5 for mine in a private sale. It has been very reliable and never let us down. It is a superb long distance cruiser but also good in the twisties. Non service parts that we have had to do have been done by a BMW specialist and costs are from memory an:
Gearbox leak (replaced with a revised BMW part) £250
Wheel bearing £130
Rear brake pipe (£250, only one was rusty) replaced both and my specialist said this was unusual.
Temp sensor £20

My car still drives like new, no squeaks or rattles and feels nice and tight. Even though I use it as my daily, it always feels special. My one is the Sport, so cannot comment on the SE.
Options - IMHO:
Must have: Active anti roll bar, Sat Nav, Upgraded leather, comfort access, Bluetooth and heads up display.
Nice to have: Radar cruise, Glass roof, cup holder, CD changer / USB interface
Other options: Auto lights (turn with steering wheel), auto dip/dim & telematics .

Really good write up from McSam on his 6 from thinking about it http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
to purchasing and living with one: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Car in the advert looks excellent, although IMHO the price is on the high side. High tax / V8 petrol must be a limited market.
Car is all aluminium (roof, chassis, doors, rear wings and bonnet) or plastic (front wings and boot), so rust should not be an issue.. Be aware that some cars suffer from hardened oil seals. Leave car to idle for 5 minutes when warm, then give it a boot full of throttle, if you get two plumes of blue smoke out of the exhaust, walk.
P.s. Check out the space in the rear to make sure the little ones fit and are comfy. I tend to change my cars after 5 years, but nothing springs to mind that is noticeably better.
I will post up the spec options later, as they are on another PC.


Edited by gf15 on Sunday 20th March 21:10

Crackie

6,386 posts

241 months

Saturday 19th March 2016
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BUG4LIFE said:
Where are the 650's for under £10k, as appose to a 645???
High miles on this one, but no more than gf15's car. http://www.harveycoopercars.co.uk/used/bmw/6-serie...

The 650 I tried, in December last year, was from the same dealer; only 55k miles on that one though. Was up for £11,950. I liked it but I couldn't justify the cost to change, relative to my current 335i. 650i felt very heavy in town and under braking, had poor back seat space and wasn't particularly quick. Looked and sounded great though, much better interior quality too.

gf15

980 posts

265 months

Sunday 20th March 2016
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As promised spec list from mine, missing Glass roof & Cup holder:-(
name cost
650i sport 54870
auto 1450
active steer 850
active cruise 1280
adaptive headlights 430
hud 925
high beam assist 95
airbag de-activate 30
lumbar 235
heated seats 285
comfort access 675
comfort glass 270
interior lights 215
mirrors 260 260
bluetooth 465
telematics 465
prof radio 285
cd changer 295
logic 7 550
sat nav 1950
pearl leather 1120
67000
Other option that I think is important is the Logic 7.
Pic of mine which is a very dark blue unless it is in bright sunlight:

CharlieB

Original Poster:

525 posts

232 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2016
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Now that is lovely

Hopefully have someone viewing the 5 this week, so if that goes the hunt is on!


Webber3

1,228 posts

218 months

Saturday 26th March 2016
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I've had my 650i convertible for about 8 years now. Every year I test drive something else to replace it, but I can never find anything that's better or that justifies the price to change. I looked at a new 4 series, but that just felt like a step down.

My kids moan that they can't connect their iPhones to play music, but as I can connect my phone over bluetooth to take calls it's good enough for me. I might replace my Cayenne this year after 7 years of owning it and get something with some better tech inside. I'm keeping the 650 though!