F31 335d XDrive Handling

[JNW1]

Welshbeef said:

You should have bought the 330d PPK instead. Saved having to unofficially modify a brand new car devaluing it.

You think the PPK modification on a 330d will add anything of significance to its value come resale time? The reality is it will be valued pretty much like an ordinary 330d and most of the cost of the modification will be lost; same will apply to ACS springs on a 335d but they're probably less than half the cost of PPK on a 330d! However, other than speccing adaptive from the factory options list I haven't modified my car.....

[Osinjak]

JNW1 said:

Not talking about a ten-tenths hoon, a brisk six or seven tenths on the wrong type of road is enough to expose the soft suspension on a standard (non-adaptive) pre-LCI X-Drive; with adaptive in Sport you can go up a notch without it being a problem but it's still too soft for fast road work if that road is twisty and undulating. I can see it being fine for a 3k mile tour around Europe but that wasn't the sort of driving I was getting at....

Horses for courses I guess. I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to a hoon and the with the conditions you describe I find the car just fine but then again I'm LCI with Adaptive Suspension. I did test drive a 330d pre-LCI once with Adaptive but the test was too short to properly chuck it around, it'd be interesting to put them side by side.

[JNW1]

Osinjak said:

JNW1 said:

Not talking about a ten-tenths hoon, a brisk six or seven tenths on the wrong type of road is enough to expose the soft suspension on a standard (non-adaptive) pre-LCI X-Drive; with adaptive in Sport you can go up a notch without it being a problem but it's still too soft for fast road work if that road is twisty and undulating. I can see it being fine for a 3k mile tour around Europe but that wasn't the sort of driving I was getting at....

Horses for courses I guess. I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to a hoon and the with the conditions you describe I find the car just fine but then again I'm LCI with Adaptive Suspension. I did test drive a 330d pre-LCI once with Adaptive but the test was too short to properly chuck it around, it'd be interesting to put them side by side.

I guess what I'm saying is that you expect an M-Sport BMW to offer a sporting drive and to be rewarding when you go quickly and want to have a bit of fun. That doesn't mean I expect a diesel estate to drive like a Lotus Elise on the twisty bits but I do expect reasonable composure and body control (which once we'd ditched the run-flats our E91 335d was more than capable of providing). Given where and how I drive my pre-LCI car with adaptive is ok most of the time (which is why I haven't fitted any after-market mods) but from what I've read the car is improved significantly once ACS springs or a Birds upgrade has been fitted and I just don't understand why BMW didn't make a better job of it from the factory; pre-LCI cars with standard suspension simply fail to meet the expectation that goes with an M-Sport BMW IMO!

[Osinjak]

But it's as DocSteve says, people like you and me are in the minority, we're in the 2.5% on the distribution curve, we are not the majority and there will always be people who feel this way about any car, BMW or not. The vast majority of BMW owners are clearly quite happy otherwise the forums would be awash with stories about vomiting dogs. I agree with you that my F31 335d is not as focused as my old E91 335d but I'm actually quite glad it isn't as it was becoming a pain to live with but I still wanted some fun hence the Adaptive Suspension option.

Edited by Osinjak on Sunday 28th August 12:51

[Welshbeef]

I guess one very fair gripe some have is they had to buy without trying

Ie I was given a rwd 330d M sport which was really good but then I saw pics of it on stilts and unsure how it would drive hence I went 535d instead

[wakaday]

Welshbeef said:

wakaday said:

Why did you reply then?
Point is not all tourer owners are dog people and bmw understand this too.
My standard 335d make my kids feel sick, but when modified with b3x is fine.

Are you being serious?

With standard suspension your children would be sick in the car often but with the modification not sick ever?
Or ... Is it figurative ?

Standard car was over sprung and under damped on rear. I had the hopeless
Fixed rate dampers from factory. Now set up has lower spring rate on rear and non linear damper rate. Standard car felt like ice truckers in rear. Kids prefer modified car. I originally thought you had to make a car bone hard to handle, but you can have handling and respectable ride too. The front spring are about 15% higher rate

[wakaday]

Osinjak said:

wakaday said:

Osinjak said:

I was going to reply to this as my dog sits quite happily in the back of my unmodified 335d Touring without vomiting everywhere but then I realised that the post makes no sense whatsoever so I won't bother.

Why did you reply then?
Point is not all tourer owners are dog people and bmw understand this too.
My standard 335d make my kids feel sick, but when modified with b3x is fine.

Hurrah for you and while you're about it, you're still not making any sense.

You were right first time. You shouldn't have bothered

[Osinjak]

wakaday said:

You were right first time. You shouldn't have bothered

Ooh, did somebody go out and buy a big boy's spine? Try posting like a coherent adult instead of a drooling infant and you might get a sensible reply. Until then, let the grown ups have a proper conversation.

[aeropilot]

wakaday said:

RWD is great until the surface is wet.

Never had a problem in the wet in a 300+hp rwd BMW......but then I was taught to always drive appropriate to the road conditions at the time.

[Osinjak]

aeropilot said:

wakaday said:

RWD is great until the surface is wet.

Never had a problem in the wet in a 300+hp rwd BMW......but then I was taught to always drive appropriate to the road conditions at the time.

Likewise. Given the amount of electronic nannies in cars nowadays if you're driving in a way that renders these systems redundant and the car becomes inherently dangerous then one would have to question what you're doing on the road in first place.

[JNW1]

Osinjak said:

But it's as DocSteve says, people like you and me are in the minority, we're in the 2.5% on the distribution curve, we are not the majority and there will always be people who feel this way about any car, BMW or not. The vast majority of BMW owners are clearly quite happy otherwise the forums would be awash with stories about vomiting dogs. I agree with you that my F31 335d is not as focused as my old E91 335d but I'm actually quite glad it isn't as it was becoming a pain to live with but I still wanted some fun hence the Adaptive Suspension option.

Edited by Osinjak on Sunday 28th August 12:51

The comments from some on this thread have been along the lines of "there's nothing wrong with the standard set-up" thereby inferring the OP - and those that think like him - don't know what they're talking about. Well, as far as I'm concerned the OP was right, the standard set-up on the pre-LCI X-Drives fell well short of what I and many other buyers would expect from a BMW and that's why so many have opted for either adaptive suspension or an after-market modification from people like ACS or Birds to resolve the problem (and in some cases both as if you have a look on F30Post there are plenty of people who have cars with adaptive who have also felt the need to fit ACS springs as well). Now those people may well represent a minority of total 335d buyers but I'd suggest the average car buyer of most car marques isn't an enthusiast; therefore, because most of those uninterested types don't complain do we conclude BMW got it right or do we take note of the fact that a majority of those who do have more of an interest in these things say the set-up's wrong? Personally my vote's with the latter as just because children and dogs aren't throwing-up on every journey isn't proof BMW got it right with the suspension set-up on the original X-Drives; personally I expect better from them than something that's adequate for people who aren't interested in driving...

[Osinjak]

Not sure who you're having a dig at but I've never inferred that you, or others, don't know what they're talking about. All I'm saying is that the car isn't wrong per se, it may not be right for some and for those they decide to fettle it to their heart's content - fair one. The inference is from those who have modified their cars is that those who are happy with the standard set up are somehow missing the point of an M Sport. I'm happy with the standard set up, I get out of it what I want and need. If that's a problem for you or the OP, jog on.

[wakaday]

Osinjak said:

wakaday said:

You were right first time. You shouldn't have bothered

Ooh, did somebody go out and buy a big boy's spine? Try posting like a coherent adult instead of a drooling infant and you might get a sensible reply. Until then, let the grown ups have a proper conversation.

Calm down, less of personal comments, try keep to the technical discussion and we can all enjoy post

[wakaday]

Osinjak said:

aeropilot said:

wakaday said:

RWD is great until the surface is wet.

Never had a problem in the wet in a 300+hp rwd BMW......but then I was taught to always drive appropriate to the road conditions at the time.

Likewise. Given the amount of electronic nannies in cars nowadays if you're driving in a way that renders these systems redundant and the car becomes inherently dangerous then one would have to question what you're doing on the road in first place.

I prefer 4wd so I don't need to slow down much in the wet. Feels good to use full power out of bends and of the mark with out the ecu limiting power. Not to forget the snow drive problems with rwd. I've had remapped 535d, 4wd is the way forward me.

[JNW1]

Osinjak said:

Not sure who you're having a dig at but I've never inferred that you, or others, don't know what they're talking about. All I'm saying is that the car isn't wrong per se, it may not be right for some and for those they decide to fettle it to their heart's content - fair one. The inference is from those who have modified their cars is that those who are happy with the standard set up are somehow missing the point of an M Sport. I'm happy with the standard set up, I get out of it what I want and need. If that's a problem for you or the OP, jog on.

Of course it's not a problem for me if you're happy with your car, why on earth would it be?! However, I thought your car had adaptive suspension in which the case the standard set-up you're happy with isn't actually standard at all? It's also an LCI - which by all accounts is an improvement over the pre-LCI model - and therefore, the car you're driving (LCI with adaptive) is a quite different kettle of fish from a passive pre-LCI car. Frankly I'd be surprised if any keen driver would be happy with the latter and if they were I'd say they probably have missed the point of an M-Sport BMW (either that or I have!); however, if they're happy with what they've got then fair enough, each to their own and all that!

[smashy]

The se s suspension not even the x drive is the only car I have had a "wtf is going on here moment" That was when I first braked hard and hung on as the nose went down and forward, second was when I was on the M25 giving it beans on the outside lane on a sleight camber when all the wallowing kicked in and felt as though I was losing control over the car pretty scary.

[ds666]

I did about 450 miles over the weekend and my dog has confirmed that the ride is acceptable ( he did mutter something about run flats ) . He wasn't sick .
He says anyone who wants to drive their 335d like it was a proper M car needs to buy one of those and stop moaning .

Woof

[wakaday]

ds666 said:

I did about 450 miles over the weekend and my dog has confirmed that the ride is acceptable ( he did mutter something about run flats ) . He wasn't sick .
He says anyone who wants to drive their 335d like it was a proper M car needs to buy one of those and stop moaning .

Woof

You must drive very carefully. That i3 is definitely the car for you.

[JNW1]

ds666 said:

I did about 450 miles over the weekend and my dog has confirmed that the ride is acceptable ( he did mutter something about run flats ) . He wasn't sick .
He says anyone who wants to drive their 335d like it was a proper M car needs to buy one of those and stop moaning .

Woof

We have two labradors and they've never been sick in my adaptive-equipped F31 either; however, that doesn't alter the fact that the standard car (i.e. without adaptive or any after market mods) falls short of what you'd expect from an M-Sport BMW in the handling department. Don't know why people keep mentioning proper M-Cars, nobody ever suggested a 335d Touring should handle like one of those.....

[ds666]

wakaday said:

You must drive very carefully. That i3 is definitely the car for you.

I have an i3 and an f10 m5 . And if i want to drive faster I have my hillclimb car ( around 500bhp/ton ) Woof Woof