F31 335d XDrive Handling

F31 335d XDrive Handling

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JNW1

7,696 posts

193 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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AliMc99 said:
I've got a pre LCI 335d x drive m sport touring and fitted the ACS Spring kit (£600 fitted by Sandal BMW Wakefield) and they transform the car. I subsequently have replaced the Bridgestone run flats with Michelin PSS (which are Extra load only on the 19" wheel size). These have further improved the car (notably steering feel and turn in). I think the ACS springs are essential on this model (although there is some suggestion BMW have improved the LCI version but I haven't driven it)
Does your car have adaptive suspension? If it was pre-LCI on the standard passive suspension I can imagine it was pretty hopeless on the twisty bits! Mine is pre-LCI with adaptive and even in Sport mode it leaves something to be desired if you're pushing on; not awful but not the ultimate driving machine either!

julian64 said:
I bought my car 335xd at nine months old with adaptive and 20" wheels. I don't get excessive body roll and I'm quite happy with the ride. I'm now wondering if the guy that owned my car shoved aftermarket springs on because I can't be the only 335xd owner who thinks his car handles fine from stock.

Last car was an E39 M5 which I owned for nearly ten years, and my other cars are all faster, so I'm fairly hard on the handling side of my cars. So somewhat confused
I would have said that if the car's running non-standard springs it should be evident visually from a lower ride height although it might be more difficult to tell with 20" rims filling the arches! If you take a look on forums like F30 Post you'll see a large number of pre-LCI X-Drive owners who've made the switch to ACS springs because they felt the handling on the standard springs wasn't good enough (and that applies to both owners with passive and adaptive cars). Therefore, if you're used to performance machinery and think your 335d handles fine my suspicion is that it may not be entirely standard in the suspension department!

Mattt

16,661 posts

217 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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I'm used to sports cars, and think my pre-LCI with adaptive is fine for what it is.

JNW1

7,696 posts

193 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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Mattt said:
I'm used to sports cars, and think my pre-LCI with adaptive is fine for what it is.
Guess it all depends on what your expectations are but for a short while we had both an E92 335i and an E91 335d in the household and there wasn't much to choose between them in the handling department (i.e. no real downside associated with the estate). However, even with adaptive in Sport mode the F31 335d is definitely softer than a 435i on passive suspension and in my view the X-Drives are a touch soft in standard form; like i say, not awful and acceptable most of the time but nevertheless a touch disappointing when pressing-on IMHO.

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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JNW1 said:
Guess it all depends on what your expectations are but for a short while we had both an E92 335i and an E91 335d in the household and there wasn't much to choose between them in the handling department (i.e. no real downside associated with the estate). However, even with adaptive in Sport mode the F31 335d is definitely softer than a 435i on passive suspension and in my view the X-Drives are a touch soft in standard form; like i say, not awful and acceptable most of the time but nevertheless a touch disappointing when pressing-on IMHO.
Your being kind JNW1 even without xdrive that standard se suspension on my F30 30d was the softest blacmange I have driven in 20 odd years of new company cars ( mine was bought) I had never really thought of suspensions before just got in and drove
,Xdrive has to be even more so surely.

Edited by smashy on Thursday 28th April 10:57

JNW1

7,696 posts

193 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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smashy said:
Your being kind JNW1 even without xdrive that standard se suspension on my F30 30d was the softest blacmange I have driven in 20 odd years of new company cars ( mine was bought) I had never really thought of suspensions before just got in and drove
,Xdrive has to be even more so surely.

Edited by smashy on Thursday 28th April 10:57
What I was trying to say was that a pre-LCI X-Drive with adaptive suspension in Sport mode is just about acceptable most of the time (at least IMO); however, a pre-LCI X-Drive on the standard (SE) passive suspension would be too soft for my taste except for low speed driving around town. I get the impression the ACS springs make a significant difference regardless of whether the car has adaptive or passive suspension and, while the LCI models are apparently better, from what I understand the springs are unchanged from the pre-LCI model and hence there's still a benefit to be had by fitting an upgrade like the ACS or Birds springs. Ultimately, though, it's one of those personal choice things; there are obviously some who are quite happy with their X-Drives as they are (in which case no point spending money on after-market modifications) whereas others think they're awful on the standard springs and have upgraded them (and in some cases the dampers as well). Don't think any of the solutions is right or wrong, each to their own really!

335d

758 posts

117 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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julian64 said:
are the aftermarket springs marked in some way? Anyone got a picture of their originals?

I bought my car 335xd at nine months old with adaptive and 20" wheels. I don't get excessive body roll and I'm quite happy with the ride. I'm now wondering if the guy that owned my car shoved aftermarket springs on because I can't be the only 335xd owner who thinks his car handles fine from stock.

Last car was an E39 M5 which I owned for nearly ten years, and my other cars are all faster, so I'm fairly hard on the handling side of my cars. So somewhat confused
Yes the ACS springs are (black I think) plastic coated and have the ACS logo on them. The fronts are a lot easier to see than the rears. I highly recommend them too. They completely transform the handling with almost no negative effect on the ride.

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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This is a good photo of the springs ,branded as 335d says it seems

http://www.tagmotorsports.com/Forums/AC%20Schnitze...

hello 335d,have you got adaptive or standard suspension ?

ratty6464

627 posts

209 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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well this thread has convinced me that I will get the ACS springs for the 435. After coming from an e92 M3 this thing handles like a blancmange. There are hints of good handling occasionally but they are infrequent and seemingly random.

JNW1

7,696 posts

193 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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ratty6464 said:
well this thread has convinced me that I will get the ACS springs for the 435. After coming from an e92 M3 this thing handles like a blancmange. There are hints of good handling occasionally but they are infrequent and seemingly random.
Assume your 435 is a diesel with X-Drive but does it have adaptive suspension?

335d

758 posts

117 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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smashy said:
hello 335d,have you got adaptive or standard suspension ?
smashy -
I have adaptive, so just went for the springs. They do work well together. If my car hadn't had adaptive I might well have gone down the same route as you and switched the dampers too.

Ross_T_Boss

163 posts

217 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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I'd say if you are feeling like you are a little disappointed with the handling then do the springs. Yes it's another £6-700 but considering what you've already ploughed into the car in the first place it's not much extra to be rid of that disappointment.

My experience was that changing springs improved the Adaptive significantly, although mine still stayed in Sport mostly. On fast motorway + A-road most folks would be happy with the vast improvement, only a few more hardcore folks that want it to feel like an RS4 need to go down the dampers + remap route to turn it into the M350d that BMW never made...

Out of interest, what dampers did ACS fit, are those Bilsteins as well?

AliMc99

161 posts

175 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
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My 335d tourer has adaptive. If specifying again I'd probably skip adaptive and just go for the acs springs (well actually I'd go for 340i petrol). I'd also prioritise Michelin PSS over adaptive.

JNW1

7,696 posts

193 months

Friday 29th April 2016
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AliMc99 said:
My 335d tourer has adaptive. If specifying again I'd probably skip adaptive and just go for the acs springs (well actually I'd go for 340i petrol). I'd also prioritise Michelin PSS over adaptive.
Can't really comment on the Michelin tyres although from what I hear they're very good; however, other than that I agree with your sentiments exactly! From what I understand the ACS springs make more of a difference to the suspension than the adaptive dampers (and at a similar cost) and, as I'm not bowled over by either X-Drive or the economy of the 335d, a 340i would be my preference if I was choosing again now.

335d

758 posts

117 months

Friday 29th April 2016
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AliMc99 said:
My 335d tourer has adaptive. If specifying again I'd probably skip adaptive and just go for the acs springs (well actually I'd go for 340i petrol). I'd also prioritise Michelin PSS over adaptive.
I am about to switch to MPSS tyres, having endured the Bridgestone runflats which are commonly accepted as the worst tyre that BMW fit. Personally I would stick with the 335d if I was ordering again. It still seems to have a 10mpg advantage over the similar performance 340i. The range of the 340i would also be a concern as it has a 5% larger tank to go with its approx 35% greater thirst. The do sound nice though, and I like the 'wheelbarrow' exhausts...

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Friday 29th April 2016
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I would love to really know the difference between my 330d and the 335d MPG wise ,reading and reading I think there is quite a difference but not totally sure I think maybe the heavy Xdrive is the main problem here? On a long really pushing on "keeping up with traffic"drive mine will not drop below 40mpg...65/70 mph in Eco pro has got me mid 50s ,a middle lane Motorway 60mpg is possible and one 15 mile motorway stretch of 50 mph in Eco Pro showed 72mpg which is crazy, MPG wise its a tad better allround than my 120d ED auto which is impressive all figures from resetting OBC

Edited by smashy on Friday 29th April 21:55

Gruber

6,313 posts

213 months

Friday 29th April 2016
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JNW1 said:
I'm not bowled over by either X-Drive or ...
Could you elaborate on this bit please? As one who is considering a 3 series xdrive wagon, I'd be interested to know what you've found lacking. My other likely option would be an S4...

Wills2

22,612 posts

174 months

Friday 29th April 2016
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It dulls the car down to S4 levels of entertainment I would expect...

My stock 335d xdrive understeered, lacked front end bite and felt heavy on the front, much like an Audi does.

But both are great for blasting off from the traffic lights.

JNW1

7,696 posts

193 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
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Gruber said:
JNW1 said:
I'm not bowled over by either X-Drive or ...
Could you elaborate on this bit please? As one who is considering a 3 series xdrive wagon, I'd be interested to know what you've found lacking. My other likely option would be an S4...
I suppose the first thing to say is my car is pre-LCI and from what I understand the suspension set-up is better on the current models (albeit still improved further with ACS springs). There's no doubt X-Drive offers traction advantages on greasy surfaces and quick exits out of junctions or roundabouts in the wet are very easy to achieve; however, the downside is you do have to put up with handling which is a touch more roly-poly than (say) an S-Drive with M-Sport suspension plus of course you're always carrying the extra weight and frictional loss associated with 4WD (which in fairness would apply to an S4 as well). I daresay you can overcome much of the handling problems by throwing more money at it with things ACS springs; I've thought about doing so on more than one occasion but the fact I'm a bit lukewarm about the diesel makes me think I'd be better just sticking with it as it is and changing the car when the time is right. In saying all this the 335d is far from a bad car and my advice would be to have an extended drive in one and make up your own mind; as you can see from this thread opinions vary on the X-Drive chassis and your view may be different from mine!

AliMc99

161 posts

175 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
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I've got a 335d (pre LCI) with adaptive and acs springs and also have driven a 335d without adaptive and can say that by a country mile the acs springs make much more of a difference to the handling than adaptive does (I haven't however driven non adaptive with ACS). These comments all relate to pre-LCI vehicles.

I've also driven a 330d Sdrive m sport (non adaptive) and would rate my 335d X drive handling to be as least as good.

My overwhelming conclusion is that if you want X drive you NEED acs springs (certainly on pre LCI). My other conclusion is X drive hammers the fuel economy.

ratty6464

627 posts

209 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
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JNW1 said:
ratty6464 said:
well this thread has convinced me that I will get the ACS springs for the 435. After coming from an e92 M3 this thing handles like a blancmange. There are hints of good handling occasionally but they are infrequent and seemingly random.
Assume your 435 is a diesel with X-Drive but does it have adaptive suspension?
Yeah it's the diesel with adaptive. Comfort is smooth but under damped when pressing on. Sport and sport plus improve it slightly but are still crap. Had a 4 hr drive yesterday and underlined how bouncy and not keyed into the road the car is at speed - the M3 was the polar opposite, absolutely locked into the road and held its line despite bumps and cambers.

I'm not expecting the 435d to have that same level of handling, but it's current setup is poor and the worst of both worlds neither relaxing or sporty. The way it corkscrews when accelerating hard is odd and it's not all due to xdrive.

Underneath it all I think there is a good car, as its relatively light for its size, has a low CoG, and the M4 can handle on a similar platform.