160k E90 vs 120k E46?

[bigalx]

Hi there,

I have an E36 M3 Evo as a weekend car and about 18 months back bought an E90 330I SE manual since I was lucky enough to give up my 4.5 hour daily commute and got rid oh my diesel (thank god!). Prior to taking on this crazy commute I had an E46 330ci Sport auto - so have a degree of experience in the cars themselves - although non of them were anywhere near as high a mileage...

The E90 I ended up with was only on 63k miles and full BMWSH - it wasnt "cared" for but whenever it went beep they took it to BMW.

The difference between the two engine wise I would say the E90 is certainly quicker and the engine seems to offer a little more in terms of revs and sound - although that could be down to auto/manual and 6spd/5spd...

I would say that I prefer the shape of the E46 and the actual drive of the E46 was far more involved. The E90 is growing on me however and once I get rid of the run flats and delete the clutch delay valve im under the impression those 2 things make a dramatic change.

Running costs wise - mpg is pretty similar - I get about 27mpg everyday use - and about 32 if I sit on the motorway at 75 - so not great but happy with that against what the car offers.

Rust is clearly an issue for the E46 - not so on the E90 - all cars have certain issue and across the two they probably balance off.

I would say mileage isn't what I would look at on either of these - buy on condition, since the engines themselves should for the most part be pretty bullet proof. The simple service work on a car of these miles you can carryout yourself for very little using the likes of ECP - so I change the oil every 8,000 miles and filters and stuff since it costs not a great deal more than a tank of fuel to do that yourself - 15,000 miles for oil changes just seems too much...

Not that any of the above will have helped, but in truth I love both the E46 and the E90 - I paid £3.7K for the E90, with 63k miles, full BMWSH and a private plate worth about £500 included - I added a set of alloys with brand new tyres and had a friend from BMW add the sport front and rear bumpers and side skirts - so all in it owes me about £4.6K - i cant think of many other cars out there which would offer the same for that kind of money - and given they are last straight 6 NA BMW made, they could become a bit of a cult car - hope so since my M3 is bleeding me dry and missus just doesn't understand my mathematics!




Good luck with the search.

[Welshbeef]

If it's going to be used as a track car why would you even consider the SE and not the M Sport which has the Z chassis and M Sport springs and shocks. The amount you'd spend making it a good car you'd spend more Han an M Sport would be.

[Digitalize]

Welshbeef said:

If it's going to be used as a track car why would you even consider the SE and not the M Sport which has the Z chassis and M Sport springs and shocks. The amount you'd spend making it a good car you'd spend more Han an M Sport would be.

On the E9X at least, the only difference that makes any performance benefit is different springs and dampers, the rest is all cosmetic. The geometry might be setup differently but there's no different parts that meant you couldn't achieve the same with the SE (ignoring the slightly lower ride height)

Fairly sure that's the same for the E46 too.

At that mileage all the dampers will be shot anyway, and changing those/some bushes would be the same cost no matter what trim level.

[TroubledSoul]

This one is cheap enough to make the not considering an M-Sport very financially favourable. It'll get new springs, shocks and bushes and it has the sports seats already so bumpers and skirts will be the only thing I'd gain (granted they do look loads better) but like I said, it won't be my pride and joy, I have a 2012 WRX STI and my M3 Evo for all that

I think I'm going to really enjoy it from the sounds of it, I just hope it is worth buying when I see it.

[Welshbeef]

TroubledSoul said:

This one is cheap enough to make the not considering an M-Sport very financially favourable. It'll get new springs, shocks and bushes and it has the sports seats already so bumpers and skirts will be the only thing I'd gain (granted they do look loads better) but like I said, it won't be my pride and joy, I have a 2012 WRX STI and my M3 Evo for all that

I think I'm going to really enjoy it from the sounds of it, I just hope it is worth buying when I see it.

What's the price difference?

Also sounds like your heart is set on it so decision made?

[TroubledSoul]

Welshbeef said:

What's the price difference?

Also sounds like your heart is set on it so decision made?

Decision made if the car stacks up in person, yeah. The more I think about it the more I'm keen. Price difference is about £3k.

Spoke to the guy from the dealer just now and he sounds alright and said there were loads of receipts and a big wad of papers so that's promising. It won't be ready for Saturday so I couldn't take it anyway so that takes the pressure to impulse buy out of it. I'll go see it and I'll report back.

[Welshbeef]

TroubledSoul said:

Welshbeef said:

What's the price difference?

Also sounds like your heart is set on it so decision made?

Decision made if the car stacks up in person, yeah. The more I think about it the more I'm keen. Price difference is about £3k.

Spoke to the guy from the dealer just now and he sounds alright and said there were loads of receipts and a big wad of papers so that's promising. It won't be ready for Saturday so I couldn't take it anyway so that takes the pressure to impulse buy out of it. I'll go see it and I'll report back.

This I've never got - nearly all cars apart from my current car and the E90 330d I bought the car on he day and drove away with it.

[TroubledSoul]

Yes but it's awaiting a replacement headlight unit then a fresh MOT. Out of my hands really. I've also usually done the same.

[TroubledSoul]

Right, so tonight I am starting to have second thoughts about the E90.

Reason being, if I buy it I am going to want new shocks and springs and I will also want the chunkier M-Sport steering wheel. Imagine the look on my face tonight when I realised that an M-Sport steering wheel with an airbag sells for £300 - £350 on ebay! That's insane! Such demand suggest the SE wheel is probably really st.

I would then want the slightly bigger M-Sport rear anti roll bar, but fitting that is a far bigger job on an E90 due to the bar going over the subframe on that car.

bks.

Due to not wanting to properly blow the budget I am also looking at the lower end of the suspension market. If I were to buy an E46 however, I could buy a decent Bilstein B12 kit for a total price very similar to what the E90 starts at. By the time we've got into the realm of buying all the bits I want for the E90 I've then got an E46 with decent suspension and a full set of polybushes......

This is now a much tougher choice. In my mind the E90 is a much better and nicer car. Is this particular E90 the right one right now? Not so sure now I've looked further into it. I need to make sure I am clear on what I am and aren't able/willing to do. I want a car I can get setup in time to take my wife for track tuition for her birthday. I could do all the jobs to the E90 over time, so that's a plus for it. It wouldn't be as good in the short term though.

FFS. There's always a spanner to be thrown in the works with these decisions!

[Mr Tidy]

Welshbeef said:

If it's going to be used as a track car why would you even consider the SE and not the M Sport which has the Z chassis and M Sport springs and shocks. The amount you'd spend making it a good car you'd spend more Han an M Sport would be.

Well probably because if it's a track day car you will doubtless change the springs and shocks anyway, so you might as well save some cash on the base car and get an SE!

[Welshbeef]

Mr Tidy said:

Well probably because if it's a track day car you will doubtless change the springs and shocks anyway, so you might as well save some cash on the base car and get an SE!

But on that you may as well buy a shell and solid engine and build up from there but I've an inclin that this is not a proper track car instead maybe one a year if time allows.
Probably cheaper buying a track prepared car to start

Another point is the OP has raised concerns about the £3k price difference... I fear that getting a car to track spec shocks bushes springs FIA fuel tank roll cage helmet fire retardant clothing slicks/intermediate tyres proper brakes will gobble that £3k up in no time at all and be multiples of it.

[TroubledSoul]

Welshbeef said:

But on that you may as well buy a shell and solid engine and build up from there but I've an inclin that this is not a proper track car instead maybe one a year if time allows.
Probably cheaper buying a track prepared car to start

Another point is the OP has raised concerns about the £3k price difference... I fear that getting a car to track spec shocks bushes springs FIA fuel tank roll cage helmet fire retardant clothing slicks/intermediate tyres proper brakes will gobble that £3k up in no time at all and be multiples of it.

Ah no you're misunderstanding me slightly Beefy. I'm not turning it into a proper track car. I'm keeping it as primarily a road car but making it more track friendly, i.e. better suspension (probably shocks and springs rather than coilovers), new bushes, that sort of thing.

I've got an M3 Evo that will eventually take over once I've finished building it and I've gained a bit more experience/tuition etc.

[Welshbeef]

TroubledSoul said:

Ah no you're misunderstanding me slightly Beefy. I'm not turning it into a proper track car. I'm keeping it as primarily a road car but making it more track friendly, i.e. better suspension (probably shocks and springs rather than coilovers), new bushes, that sort of thing.

I've got an M3 Evo that will eventually take over once I've finished building it and I've gained a bit more experience/tuition etc.

I'd still say go for the top of the range - it will be worth more/more desirable when you sell it plus it will need nothing upgraded to it as it stands.

Willowy SE suspension and on stilts v Z chassis Lower and M sport shocks and firmer springs. Body kit. Higher level of kit.

Plus it looks a lot better (IMHO) over the SE.


I'm always one for buying top of the range and not compromise on that.

[MattOz]

TroubledSoul said:

I'm keeping it as primarily a road car but making it more track friendly, i.e. better suspension (probably shocks and springs rather than coilovers), new bushes, that sort of thing.

Mine has the Birds B3 suspension kit (Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs) and adjustable control arms. It's firm without being harsh and it's leaps and bounds ahead of a standard M Sport set up. It's not cheap though!

[Welshbeef]

MattOz said:

Mine has the Birds B3 suspension kit (Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs) and adjustable control arms. It's firm without being harsh and it's leaps and bounds ahead of a standard M Sport set up. It's not cheap though!

How much? So the OP can judge the £3k price difference.


Also would you put that kit on a car worth what £2k?

[Swervin_Mervin]

Welshbeef said:

Willowy SE suspension and on stilts v Z chassis

You keep mentioning this "Z Chassis". What do you mean? As I understand it the chassis is the same bar springs, dampers and roll bar.

[TroubledSoul]

Christ, the car's worth more than that if you mean the E90

BTW take a look at E46 prices in comparison. Post 2003 facelift models in 330i/Ci flavour are a bit daft for what they are.

I'm now thinking fk it, go see the E90. I'll either like it or I won't. The E46 contenders are all considerably further away from me so what harm can having a look do? If I buy it I'll likely go with the cheaper Vogtland suspension kit which I admit to never having heard of before but have found some very favourable reviews for since doing a search.

I guess there's nothing else for me to really add now until I see the E90 in the morning. I'll update then.

[MattOz]

Welshbeef said:

How much? So the OP can judge the £3k price difference.

It's about £1500 fitted at Birds. You can get Eibach Pro springs for £150 ish and decent shocks for £300 ish, so it can be done more cost effectively.

[TroubledSoul]

Yeah stuff like that I do myself to be fair.

[MattOz]

TroubledSoul said:

I'm now thinking fk it, go see the E90. I'll either like it or I won't.

This is what I'd be doing. Nothing beats going to have a proper nose round a car and having a drive. You might find it's better (or worse) than expected. I do have a problem spending money on mine! It's not worth a huge amount of money, relatively speaking, but it's almost a case of doing what's right, rather than what's the most cost effective thing. The suspension is probably 25-30% of the value of the car in my case!

Mine's off to BMW on Tuesday to waste more money servicing it at a main dealer!

Edited by MattOz on Saturday 2nd July 00:01