Alpina D3

[Burnham]

ROLFSSEN said:

I'm getting 40-42mpg.

I'm very picky on cars and there are a few minor things, but it'd be unfair to mention them really as a) I still think there's nothing I'd replace it with other than another one, b) what I don't mention, won't bother you.

I think that because I spend so much time in it (30k per year) that I just get used driving it. In fairness, when I work away and then get back to the airport and get in it, I love it again!

Tim

Ha, thanks Tim, appreciate that! Great to hear.

[JNW1]

Burnham said:

It is a lot of money when you take into account the discounts available on a standard 335d/340i, but its a different car - and the rarity of them means depreciation wont be as severe as on the donor car....so yeah, man maths for sure.

Alpinas are lovely cars and sure you'll enjoy yours when it arrives! However, I wouldn't be so sure about the depreciation not being severe; when I was looking at E46 coupes a few years ago the salesman at my local dealership reckoned the value of a second-hand B3 would be closer to a 330Ci than an M3 even though the new price was much closer to the latter. That's certainly not a reason to avoid Alpinas but even with a generous helping of man-maths I'm not sure they make a huge amount of sense financially - you buy one because you want one and absolutely nothing wrong with that!

[Burnham]

JNW1 said:

Burnham said:

It is a lot of money when you take into account the discounts available on a standard 335d/340i, but its a different car - and the rarity of them means depreciation wont be as severe as on the donor car....so yeah, man maths for sure.

Alpinas are lovely cars and sure you'll enjoy yours when it arrives! However, I wouldn't be so sure about the depreciation not being severe; when I was looking at E46 coupes a few years ago the salesman at my local dealership reckoned the value of a second-hand B3 would be closer to a 330Ci than an M3 even though the new price was much closer to the latter. That's certainly not a reason to avoid Alpinas but even with a generous helping of man-maths I'm not sure they make a huge amount of sense financially - you buy one because you want one and absolutely nothing wrong with that!

That's the problem with predictions JNW1! We've got the benefit of history that proves him wrong.

I would have loved to have saved a chunk of money by buying 2 year old D3 (I vowed never to buy a brand new car!), but I simply couldn't find one at a decent enough saving to make it worthwhile considering over a New one.

If the trend of the Alpina E46 and E90 continues with the latest shape then it should be a safe bet (fingers crossed of course).

[Blue62]

I agree, I think the latest D3 is holding up better than most Alpina's, I'm not sure the B3 is a valid comparator.

[ZX10R NIN]

In 2011 the D3 was the same price as a 325d M Sport with the 330d being 2K more right now the D3 is around 4K more.

330d
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Alpina D3 2.0 BiTurbo
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

The depreciation issue is dependant on how long you keep the car, I don't expect our car to run at to much of a loss but we'll be keeping it 5-7 years so only time will tell in the meantime we'll just carry on enjoying the car.

For the petrol versions the gap seems to be bigger still.

2006 Alpina B5
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

2006 M5
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Nigh on no difference between the B3 vs M3 in terms of price but you get a year older Alpina.

2012 M3 DCT
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

2011 Alpina B3 BiTurbo
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

[smashy]

That D3 above ..to me as an Alpina enthusiast it seems to me that when an independant car showroom gets one for sale they really try it on sticker price and you then watch it drop over the weeks.

There was a saying on the Alpina Forum based on For sale "well sir its that expensive because of its niche exclusivity"

Trying to PX "well sir er um well problem is its a niche car not much call for them "

[JNW1]

Burnham said:

JNW1 said:

Burnham said:

It is a lot of money when you take into account the discounts available on a standard 335d/340i, but its a different car - and the rarity of them means depreciation wont be as severe as on the donor car....so yeah, man maths for sure.

Alpinas are lovely cars and sure you'll enjoy yours when it arrives! However, I wouldn't be so sure about the depreciation not being severe; when I was looking at E46 coupes a few years ago the salesman at my local dealership reckoned the value of a second-hand B3 would be closer to a 330Ci than an M3 even though the new price was much closer to the latter. That's certainly not a reason to avoid Alpinas but even with a generous helping of man-maths I'm not sure they make a huge amount of sense financially - you buy one because you want one and absolutely nothing wrong with that!

That's the problem with predictions JNW1! We've got the benefit of history that proves him wrong.

I would have loved to have saved a chunk of money by buying 2 year old D3 (I vowed never to buy a brand new car!), but I simply couldn't find one at a decent enough saving to make it worthwhile considering over a New one.

If the trend of the Alpina E46 and E90 continues with the latest shape then it should be a safe bet (fingers crossed of course).

To be fair to the salesman in question he was talking more in a context of a car bought new and sold at 2 to 4 years old (probably not that unusual for new BMW's). At the time he certainly seemed to have a point as not long after the conversation I was tracking a used (less than 2 year-old) B3S which eventually sold at an advertised price of less than £30k even though the list price given the spec would have been well over £40k (and therefore firmly in M3 territory). However, a used M3 of similar vintage would have been worth significantly more and, if a dealer was advertising the B3S at under £30k, it's fair to assume they gave rather less than that for it (which implies the original owner probably took a hit of around £20k in less than 2 years and 15k miles). Arguably that level of depreciation is to be expected on a car of that type but the evidence at the time certainly suggested that E46 Alpinas didn't hold their value as well as E46 M3's; if you look at relative values now I daresay they're a lot closer but that probably reflects that Alpinas are less thick on the ground and likely to be cherished whereas there's a lot more M3's and many will have been thrashed!

When I was selling my E92 335i a couple of years ago I also seem to recall a chap trying to sell his E92 B3S at the same time and, despite it being low mileage and a lovely spec, he was struggling to get any interest despite dropping the price to around £30k. At that time a used E92 M3 of the same age would have been mid-30's at least so historically I do think Alpinas have tended to suffer higher initial depreciation than their M-Car equivalents; however, that might be less true compared to the current M3/M4 as those cars have had some indifferent press reviews and don't seem to be in demand in quite the same way previous generations were.

Anyway, like I say, the potential depreciation isn't a reason not to buy a new Alpina and personally I'd love one; however, if it ended-up holding its value well for me that would be a bonus rather than an expectation!

[Burnham]

JNW1 said:

Burnham said:

JNW1 said:

Burnham said:

It is a lot of money when you take into account the discounts available on a standard 335d/340i, but its a different car - and the rarity of them means depreciation wont be as severe as on the donor car....so yeah, man maths for sure.

Alpinas are lovely cars and sure you'll enjoy yours when it arrives! However, I wouldn't be so sure about the depreciation not being severe; when I was looking at E46 coupes a few years ago the salesman at my local dealership reckoned the value of a second-hand B3 would be closer to a 330Ci than an M3 even though the new price was much closer to the latter. That's certainly not a reason to avoid Alpinas but even with a generous helping of man-maths I'm not sure they make a huge amount of sense financially - you buy one because you want one and absolutely nothing wrong with that!

That's the problem with predictions JNW1! We've got the benefit of history that proves him wrong.

I would have loved to have saved a chunk of money by buying 2 year old D3 (I vowed never to buy a brand new car!), but I simply couldn't find one at a decent enough saving to make it worthwhile considering over a New one.

If the trend of the Alpina E46 and E90 continues with the latest shape then it should be a safe bet (fingers crossed of course).

To be fair to the salesman in question he was talking more in a context of a car bought new and sold at 2 to 4 years old (probably not that unusual for new BMW's). At the time he certainly seemed to have a point as not long after the conversation I was tracking a used (less than 2 year-old) B3S which eventually sold at an advertised price of less than £30k even though the list price given the spec would have been well over £40k (and therefore firmly in M3 territory). However, a used M3 of similar vintage would have been worth significantly more and, if a dealer was advertising the B3S at under £30k, it's fair to assume they gave rather less than that for it (which implies the original owner probably took a hit of around £20k in less than 2 years and 15k miles). Arguably that level of depreciation is to be expected on a car of that type but the evidence at the time certainly suggested that E46 Alpinas didn't hold their value as well as E46 M3's; if you look at relative values now I daresay they're a lot closer but that probably reflects that Alpinas are less thick on the ground and likely to be cherished whereas there's a lot more M3's and many will have been thrashed!

When I was selling my E92 335i a couple of years ago I also seem to recall a chap trying to sell his E92 B3S at the same time and, despite it being low mileage and a lovely spec, he was struggling to get any interest despite dropping the price to around £30k. At that time a used E92 M3 of the same age would have been mid-30's at least so historically I do think Alpinas have tended to suffer higher initial depreciation than their M-Car equivalents; however, that might be less true compared to the current M3/M4 as those cars have had some indifferent press reviews and don't seem to be in demand in quite the same way previous generations were.

Anyway, like I say, the potential depreciation isn't a reason not to buy a new Alpina and personally I'd love one; however, if it ended-up holding its value well for me that would be a bonus rather than an expectation!

Very good points - the initial drop may well be steeper than an equivalent M, though I think less availability will almost certainly result in a flatter curve thereafter, and in the very long run they will definately fair better than the cooking models, as proven. And I agree, the thought of depreciation shouldn't put anyone off buying any marque they want. If you want that car badly enough then the reduction in value over time is just another cost of ownership of your dream car.

The rarity factor does seem to help them stay ahead of lower end/more plentiful stock models (and rightly so, as they are huge chunk more money!)...and the longer you wait the more you could count on benefiting from that bottom end of the curve, while standard models are parted down or resigned to the scrap heap. For example, E46 Alpinas are still circa £10k while very thin on the ground, and so closer to the top end of the M3 market, while 335i's are less than half that value now (admittedly you'd have to have owned one a very long time from new for this to be the case!). Of course, choosing a CSL would have been the best option in this example!

I think image, model/spec and a lesser choice of cars has a lot to do with how these fair in terms of drop in value. I personally wouldn't by an M, partly as I'd prefer to have something a little more subtle, and different/rarer, and also because I like the Touring shape (and need the practicality). Its a shame BMW don't offer an M3 wagon, but even if they did I'd sway towards an Aplina, Im sure.

Certainly to me its seems that Alpina have stepped up the difference in improvement of the more recent models over standard (non-M) 'equivalent' versions over the last few years. Ive always admired Alpinas but only with the F30 shape have they become something that Ive seriously considered as an option. Pricing them on-par with M cars will mean that values will tend to track more in line with those than the more standard models.

As with any car, if you can keep them for a decent length of time, then the hit will be less painful over time of course. Id imagine that a D3 could easily lose £15k to £20k within 2 years, so maybe not far off an M in terms of residuals. But if its a 4yr or longer propisition then it would become less painful I think....BMW will help that by still shifting a load of M3's/M4's regardless of less than flattering reviews!

[Blue62]

There is always a danger of man maths taking over the argument here, but I see the depreciation argument with the D3 as a fairly simple one.

It doesn't really have an equivalent in the BMW range and by all accounts is considered as the best real world car to come out of Alpina for a while. I honestly think it stands apart and for those of us who want subtly wrapped, fast, family everyday motoring without spending endless hours filling up, it's a compelling proposition. It may be niche, but its qualities combined with a degree of exclusivity make it a fair bet for me that prices won't tumble too badly and the word seems to be getting out there, when I enquired there were only 4 stock Tourings in the UK.

I'm saying all of this before I have driven one, so my view could change (though I find it hard to question Sutcliffe's judgement on cars), but I think it's a bit of a one off and Alpina have pulled a rabbit out of the hat with the D3. I run an RS4 B8 and an SQ5, we are replacing both next year and this car seems to combine the qualities of both, that's some going.

[JNW1]

Blue62 said:

There is always a danger of man maths taking over the argument here, but I see the depreciation argument with the D3 as a fairly simple one.

It doesn't really have an equivalent in the BMW range and by all accounts is considered as the best real world car to come out of Alpina for a while. I honestly think it stands apart and for those of us who want subtly wrapped, fast, family everyday motoring without spending endless hours filling up, it's a compelling proposition. It may be niche, but its qualities combined with a degree of exclusivity make it a fair bet for me that prices won't tumble too badly and the word seems to be getting out there, when I enquired there were only 4 stock Tourings in the UK.

I'm saying all of this before I have driven one, so my view could change (though I find it hard to question Sutcliffe's judgement on cars), but I think it's a bit of a one off and Alpina have pulled a rabbit out of the hat with the D3. I run an RS4 B8 and an SQ5, we are replacing both next year and this car seems to combine the qualities of both, that's some going.

I get what you're saying and am certainly not out to knock Alpinas! However, you could get the suspension on a 335d fettled by Birds or ACS - and get it remapped to produce at least the same power and torque - for rather less than a cost of a D3; of course the modified 335d won't be worth as much in 5 or 6 years time but then it won't have cost anything like as much in the first place! Don't get me wrong, I could easily be tempted towards an Alpina and I understand completely why you're considering one; however, I can also see the argument that says once you take discounts into account they look a tad expensive compared to the stock cars on which they're based....

[Blue62]

JNW1 said:

I get what you're saying and am certainly not out to knock Alpinas! However, you could get the suspension on a 335d fettled by Birds or ACS - and get it remapped to produce at least the same power and torque - for rather less than a cost of a D3; of course the modified 335d won't be worth as much in 5 or 6 years time but then it won't have cost anything like as much in the first place! Don't get me wrong, I could easily be tempted towards an Alpina and I understand completely why you're considering one; however, I can also see the argument that says once you take discounts into account they look a tad expensive compared to the stock cars on which they're based....

I absolutely agree on the discount front and it may be the one aspect of buying an Alpina that I won't/can't stomach, will have to wait and see.

[ZX10R NIN]

JNW1 said:

I get what you're saying and am certainly not out to knock Alpinas! However, you could get the suspension on a 335d fettled by Birds or ACS - and get it remapped to produce at least the same power and torque - for rather less than a cost of a D3; of course the modified 335d won't be worth as much in 5 or 6 years time but then it won't have cost anything like as much in the first place! Don't get me wrong, I could easily be tempted towards an Alpina and I understand completely why you're considering one; however, I can also see the argument that says once you take discounts into account they look a tad expensive compared to the stock cars on which they're based....

Very valid point infact if you went the ACS route you get more power to but you don't get the interior & the ride quality (from what I've read it's a vast improvement on the standard ride but not quite as good as the Alpina) & 4wd only, plus there's a sense of being in something a little different.

To get close to the Alpina you'd spend close to 9.5k at ACS (20" Alloys, ACS Damper's, Performance & Aero Packs) & that's before any interior enhancements, what's listed above would put you in the 47k zone for a 335d, admittedly that's still around 9k less than the Alpina but for the OH & myself it wasn't a big enough price difference to consider the 335d it just didn't feel as nice to drive or as nice a place to be in everyday, the Alpina feels like a class above even though the architecture is the same.

[Wills2]

ZX10R NIN said:

JNW1 said:

I get what you're saying and am certainly not out to knock Alpinas! However, you could get the suspension on a 335d fettled by Birds or ACS - and get it remapped to produce at least the same power and torque - for rather less than a cost of a D3; of course the modified 335d won't be worth as much in 5 or 6 years time but then it won't have cost anything like as much in the first place! Don't get me wrong, I could easily be tempted towards an Alpina and I understand completely why you're considering one; however, I can also see the argument that says once you take discounts into account they look a tad expensive compared to the stock cars on which they're based....

Very valid point infact if you went the ACS route you get more power to but you don't get the interior & the ride quality (from what I've read it's a vast improvement on the standard ride but not quite as good as the Alpina) & 4wd only, plus there's a sense of being in something a little different.

What interior? It's the same interior as a standard BMW (baring a few stuck on badges) in fact the 50k D3 comes with the same seats and crappy dakota leather as a 318d m sport, you have to spend a complete fortune to get the lavalina leather.

[smashy]

Please dont say the engine is just a remap lets get it right,,,,,,,,oh and the pis de resitance no flippin x drive


"What they’ve ended up with is less of a car, more of a contender for the next European space programme.
’Cos that’s how good she is. Man, is she sweet. Schwing. To infinity and beyond and back again.
Most of their efforts have gone into the super-effective, super-efficient creation of super everything.
The secret Alpina engine control unit; the secret Alpina variable-geometry turbochargers that can wreak havoc at both low and high speeds.
Then there are secret intake ducts. The D3 has double what it needs when it comes to the dark arts of turbocharging: two larger primary intakes funnelling air into a fierce bottleneck of secondary intakes, producing obedient mayhem ready to be unleashed at will.
This frenzy of molecular activity also obliterates anything that might resemble lag.
Ergo, whatever level of firepower you desire from the 350hp three-litre straight-six engine is available in an instant.
The suspension has been uprated. The brakes are now strong enough to arrest the mightiest stampede.
The optimum running temperature, hugely important for max power, is maintained via an extra-rad and reworked front spoiler.
And so the list goes on and on. If there’s anything the Alpina team of genius elves have left out, I couldn’t spot it."

Edited by smashy on Monday 22 August 14:52

[JNW1]

ZX10R NIN said:

Very valid point infact if you went the ACS route you get more power to but you don't get the interior & the ride quality (from what I've read it's a vast improvement on the standard ride but not quite as good as the Alpina) & 4wd only, plus there's a sense of being in something a little different.

To get close to the Alpina you'd spend close to 9.5k at ACS (20" Alloys, ACS Damper's, Performance & Aero Packs) & that's before any interior enhancements, what's listed above would put you in the 47k zone for a 335d, admittedly that's still around 9k less than the Alpina but for the OH & myself it wasn't a big enough price difference to consider the 335d it just didn't feel as nice to drive or as nice a place to be in everyday, the Alpina feels like a class above even though the architecture is the same.

I was thinking the Birds Dynamic package including anti-roll bars and LSD for around £5.5k fitted plus a DMS remap for £1k (probably a bit less in practice); that's £6.5k to get a 335d to a similar level dynamically to a D3 plus of course you need to add the cost of a new 335d (£32k from C2C for an F30, probably less from someone like Tony Lewis). Add a few options and you're looking at early 40's (say £43k) for the 335d but that's still a saving of 25% against even a basic D3 and being honest how many Alpinas leave the factory with no options fitted? In reality, therefore, I'd say a D3 is likely to come out around 30% more expensive than a nicely specced 335d which has had engine and chassis mods fitted by reputable aftermarket tuners. Is it worth the extra? That's obviously down to individual judgement but I think a 30% difference would be viewed as significant by most people and hence the Alpina needs to be very good to justify the extra (which it may be but having driven neither a D3 nor a modded 335d I can't say for sure!).

[Wills2]

There is no doubt the D3/4 or perhaps more the B3/4 are good cars but they are crazy expensive I specced a B3 to the same level as my F80 M3 and it comes to £67,000 with zero discount available you'd get the M3 for around 56k after discount.

They do less to the stock car than M do to it and yet want to charge 10k more, for me they simply don't add up as 67k is RS6/M5 money.

[smashy]

Wills2 said:

There is no doubt the D3/4 or perhaps more the B3/4 are good cars but they are crazy expensive I specced a B3 to the same level as my F80 M3 and it comes to £67,000 with zero discount available you'd get the M3 for around 56k after discount.

They do less to the stock car than M do to it and yet want to charge 10k more, for me they simply don't add up as 67k is RS6/M5 money.

why buy an RS6 or M5 it simply doesnt add up, for that you could buy an Alpina D3..

[ZX10R NIN]

smashy said:

why buy an RS6 or M5 it simply doesnt add up, for that you could buy an Alpina

Fixed that for you.

[ZX10R NIN]

Is it a discount but is it really a discount because if you can get 18% off of an M3 without breaking a sweat doesn't it do the car an injustice.

The B4/M4 is an interesting comparison

M4 Convertible (it's supposed to be 80k)
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

B4 Convertible
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Both well spec'd would you consider the M3 overpriced if you could only buy it for 80k?

[smashy]

ZX10R NIN said:

smashy said:

why buy an RS6 or M5 it simply doesnt add up, for that you could buy an Alpina

Fixed that for you.

Ha ha fair play ,mind you the consenus seems to be the D3 is the "best" Alpina at the moment whatever best means ,,,,but check out the latest B7 £120k 600BHP oh Lordy