X Drive a waste of money on 3 & 4 Series?
Discussion
Vested interest here as I'm waiting for a 335d to be built, however I have fond memories of our E46 330 going nowhere if it snowed with the pretty yellow light flashing madly from the dashboard.
Since then my local authority has significantly reducing spending on grit and after 8y in a range rover I wanted some peace of mind needing the car for work, and I'll prob put winters on it too like the Rangie has
Cheers
Since then my local authority has significantly reducing spending on grit and after 8y in a range rover I wanted some peace of mind needing the car for work, and I'll prob put winters on it too like the Rangie has
Cheers
I bought a 320D M-Sport Xdrive last Oct and love it! granted last winter didn't put it to the test but my reasoning was having the added security in poor road conditions and being self employed I don't have the luxury of phoning my clients and saying I'm working from home when the driving conditions might be tricky.
One potential concern though is the cost of replacing the electronic transfer box,( dealer admitted this was there 3rd in 7 days) I had about 20K on the clock when I started experiencing a hesitation when pulling away from rest somewhat like fuel starvation for a second but the engine speed was steady, turns out it was the transfer box. Lucky for me it was still under warranty as the repair would have cost me just over £3k.
As others have mentioned there intent to put winter tyres on, this is something I'm in the process of sourcing however its proving a challenge getting the rear tyres(255/40/18) in the North East the fronts are easier to find (225/45/18)though trying to get front and rear the same brand just further complicates things, so those of you that have found them please tell me where.
One potential concern though is the cost of replacing the electronic transfer box,( dealer admitted this was there 3rd in 7 days) I had about 20K on the clock when I started experiencing a hesitation when pulling away from rest somewhat like fuel starvation for a second but the engine speed was steady, turns out it was the transfer box. Lucky for me it was still under warranty as the repair would have cost me just over £3k.
As others have mentioned there intent to put winter tyres on, this is something I'm in the process of sourcing however its proving a challenge getting the rear tyres(255/40/18) in the North East the fronts are easier to find (225/45/18)though trying to get front and rear the same brand just further complicates things, so those of you that have found them please tell me where.
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm in the don't bother with x drive camp because it just adds weight and you lose what's nice about a bmw(the fact it's RWD).
Winter tyres and RWD would be my preference, I suppose it depends what part of the country you are in though as to whether x drive is a benefit to you.
sDrive plus winters will work better on ice than xDrive plus summers, as you suggest, however xDrive plus winters is much better still.Winter tyres and RWD would be my preference, I suppose it depends what part of the country you are in though as to whether x drive is a benefit to you.
Having owned several sDrive BMWs, I'm not convinced about the downside of losing the RWD feel in my current 335d. It is very much rear-biased still, until it needs the extra grip from the fronts. With the right suspension, it is a fun set-up. And of course if you want a fast diesel you don't have much choice...
335d said:
sDrive plus winters will work better on ice than xDrive plus summers, as you suggest, however xDrive plus winters is much better still.
Having owned several sDrive BMWs, I'm not convinced about the downside of losing the RWD feel in my current 335d. It is very much rear-biased still, until it needs the extra grip from the fronts. With the right suspension, it is a fun set-up. And of course if you want a fast diesel you don't have much choice...
I will admit I actually quite liked the xdrive on my 4.8 X5 and under hard acceleration you could feel it feed all the power to the rear wheels as the front end lightened and it was quite good fun. Having owned several sDrive BMWs, I'm not convinced about the downside of losing the RWD feel in my current 335d. It is very much rear-biased still, until it needs the extra grip from the fronts. With the right suspension, it is a fun set-up. And of course if you want a fast diesel you don't have much choice...
The quattro system on the TTS on the other hand was absolutely s
te! I do see the benefits of 4wd but ultimately prefer RWD and the bit less weight they carry.
ds666 said:
It's not just about snow thou. Try booting a 535d off the line or out of a t junction in the wet without the traction control flashing like there's no tomorrow and curtailing progress . Never happens in a 335d x drive .
True. I find it quite bad when getting on with it on a straight damp road at around 40 mph+.However...
With Adaptive Drive stiffening the rear ARB at low speed, coupled with a judicious long press of the DSC button - the 535d makes an amazing 3am roundabout drift car.
Win some, lose some.
apotts said:
ds666 said:
It's not just about snow thou. Try booting a 535d off the line or out of a t junction in the wet without the traction control flashing like there's no tomorrow and curtailing progress . Never happens in a 335d x drive .
True. I find it quite bad when getting on with it on a straight damp road at around 40 mph+.However...
With Adaptive Drive stiffening the rear ARB at low speed, coupled with a judicious long press of the DSC button - the 535d makes an amazing 3am roundabout drift car.
Win some, lose some.
A 535d at half throttle, or full throttle with TC flashing will still set off quicker than 90% of cars on the road. If that won't get you into a gap from a T Junction then the gap probably isn't there.
Wills2 said:
Xdrive gets a bit push me pull me when it shuffles the torque around when you lose traction doesn't feel that good.
I can't remember if you improved the suspension of your 335d? Before fitting ACS springs, I did notice some odd behaviour of that type when pulling out of a junction quickly. I think that the softness of the standard (adaptive in my case) suspension was partly responsible for the weight shifting around, and the consequent difficulty in getting all of the power down. Since changing the springs, it is much more stable in this respect and you can floor it out of a junction or use significant power earlier in a bend without destabilising the car.cerb4.5lee said:
I will admit I actually quite liked the xdrive on my 4.8 X5 and under hard acceleration you could feel it feed all the power to the rear wheels as the front end lightened and it was quite good fun.
The quattro system on the TTS on the other hand was absolutely ste!
I do see the benefits of 4wd but ultimately prefer RWD and the bit less weight they carry.
I had a 4.4 X5 of that generation. It did have its fun moments, although the softness of the suspension made it feel rather clumsy. Not sure if the 4.8is had better suspension.The quattro system on the TTS on the other hand was absolutely s
te! I do see the benefits of 4wd but ultimately prefer RWD and the bit less weight they carry.
It is a fair point about the weight penalty
I think XDrive in England - perhaps less so in Scotland - is mostly about keeping up with Audi and pandering to peoples fear rather than of genuine use. I've driven a number of XDrive equipped 3 and 4 Series BMW's and all I've ever really noticed is they use more fuel and go a bit slower than the RWD models. And look a bit more silly with the higher ride height.
I'm sure it works well on the genuine offroaders and the big power 35d's but my 258ps 530d rarely breaks traction so I'm not sure what benefit XDrive really brings most people over RWD.
Except for 3 days a year in 2012 when it snowed a bit. Then you can spin all 4 summer RFT's and go nowhere instead of just 2
I'm sure it works well on the genuine offroaders and the big power 35d's but my 258ps 530d rarely breaks traction so I'm not sure what benefit XDrive really brings most people over RWD.
Except for 3 days a year in 2012 when it snowed a bit. Then you can spin all 4 summer RFT's and go nowhere instead of just 2
DUMBO100 said:
I've got a Golf R and BMW 520 and live in Glasgow, we has a bit of snow last year, the Golf was brilliant and the BMW not good at all. Both cars were on "all year" tyres. Will be getting 4wd cars in future
Why not just get good tyres?I drove a 320d through Switzerland last year. They get much more snow than Glasgow....
Over the past couple of services of my car I've had a 320d M-Sport XDrive and a RWD 320d M-Sport and found that although the the XDrive was capable of exiting a wet T-junction at full throttle with no wheelspin, the RWD car was just much nicer to drive the rest of the time.
I've been scuppered by compacted snow on a couple of occasions without winter tyres. Most annoyingly in my M135i on Michelin Pilot Super Sports trying to get over a hump-backed bridge in Surrey after a ridiculously heavy snow/hail shower. Mind you, it was so slippery at points that lifting off the throttle in 2nd gear was seeing the rear slide whilst going in a straight line.
I'm with the poster that said the Xdrive is a good way of pinching Audi sales.
I've been scuppered by compacted snow on a couple of occasions without winter tyres. Most annoyingly in my M135i on Michelin Pilot Super Sports trying to get over a hump-backed bridge in Surrey after a ridiculously heavy snow/hail shower. Mind you, it was so slippery at points that lifting off the throttle in 2nd gear was seeing the rear slide whilst going in a straight line.
I'm with the poster that said the Xdrive is a good way of pinching Audi sales.
bennyboysvuk said:
Over the past couple of services of my car I've had a 320d M-Sport XDrive and a RWD 320d M-Sport and found that although the the XDrive was capable of exiting a wet T-junction at full throttle with no wheelspin, the RWD car was just much nicer to drive the rest of the time.
You are probably describing the difference between SE and M Sport suspension which will be much more apparent in normal driving than xDrive or sDrive. As discussed we don't know what BMW were thinking when they forced xDrive owners to take SE suspension, but given the way they behave with ACS springs, it was clearly a mistake. Once you have rectified that, you are in a better position to compare xDrive and sDrive.That said, less powerful cars benefit less from xDrive. A 320d has much less difficulty in getting its power down through 2 wheels, even in slippery conditions, than one of the quicker models. If you feel that this is only a benefit when exiting a wet T-junction, then you haven't tried it thoroughly enough.
Edited by 335d on Monday 17th October 09:05
ds666 said:
It's not just about snow thou. Try booting a 535d off the line or out of a t junction in the wet without the traction control flashing like there's no tomorrow and curtailing progress . Never happens in a 335d x drive .
Doesn't happen in my chipped 640d unless you mash the accelerator like a tool and even then it's fine unless with cold tyres in the wet.I just don't get 4WD in cars with less than 400-500bhp unless the weather is very bad.
Most 4Wd cars seem like a compromise to me.
When living in Switzerland I bought a 2003 BMW 330xi estate which was the early version of the X Drive. Much heavier than the 330i, had higher ground clearance and with a manual it was just plain awful. However it was quite good fun powersliding in heavy snow and did save my bacon once on black ice.
To be honest I found the haldex in my Golf R32 was actually much nicer than the all wheeled 330xi. Seemed to perform much better in the snow and certainly on the German autobahn was much more stable over 120mph.
To be honest I found the haldex in my Golf R32 was actually much nicer than the all wheeled 330xi. Seemed to perform much better in the snow and certainly on the German autobahn was much more stable over 120mph.
335d said:
You are probably describing the difference between SE and M Sport suspension which will be much more apparent in normal driving than xDrive or sDrive. As discussed we don't know what BMW were thinking when they forced xDrive owners to take SE suspension, but given the way they behave with ACS springs, it was clearly a mistake. Once you have rectified that, you are in a better position to compare xDrive and sDrive.
That said, less powerful cars benefit less from xDrive. A 320d has much less difficulty in getting its power down through 2 wheels, even in slippery conditions, than one of the quicker models. If you feel that this is only a benefit when exiting a wet T-junction, then you haven't tried it thoroughly enough.
I thought the M-Sport Xdrive would come with sport springs? Still, if not then so be it. The RWD car felt much nicer to drive though. I would say that the XDrive car was easier to get out of shape when provoking lift-off oversteer with all the traction aids switched off. It seems to handle a little more like a front-driver from that respect.That said, less powerful cars benefit less from xDrive. A 320d has much less difficulty in getting its power down through 2 wheels, even in slippery conditions, than one of the quicker models. If you feel that this is only a benefit when exiting a wet T-junction, then you haven't tried it thoroughly enough.
Edited by 335d on Monday 17th October 09:05
As I say, I only had the XDrive as a courtesy car for a day, but even for my M135i I'd still far rather have a decent mechanical LSD (which sadly it doesn't have) over XDrive.
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff