X Drive a waste of money on 3 & 4 Series?
Discussion
bennyboysvuk said:
I thought the M-Sport Xdrive would come with sport springs? Still, if not then so be it. The RWD car felt much nicer to drive though. I would say that the XDrive car was easier to get out of shape when provoking lift-off oversteer with all the traction aids switched off. It seems to handle a little more like a front-driver from that respect.
As I say, I only had the XDrive as a courtesy car for a day, but even for my M135i I'd still far rather have a decent mechanical LSD (which sadly it doesn't have) over XDrive.
No the M Sport xDrive has SE springs, and that is exactly why the car doesn't cope well with being chucked about. The shifting weight from the soft suspension creates some odd behaviour.As I say, I only had the XDrive as a courtesy car for a day, but even for my M135i I'd still far rather have a decent mechanical LSD (which sadly it doesn't have) over XDrive.
The degree of improvement just by changing to better springs is remarkable. It becomes far sharper than cars with the M Sport suspension in a single step. Alpina do exactly this with their B3/D3 (sold in both sDrive and xDrive) - they just change the springs, while keeping the original BMW adaptive dampers, albeit slightly re-programmed.
You really need to try an xDrive car with a proper suspension set-up to make a sensible comparison beween sDrive and xDrive. I'm no xDrive fan boy though. I have had 4 RWD BMWs and may well have another at some point, as well as another xDrive. There are advantages/disadvantages of both set-ups.
Many people buy an x-drive because they think it is better in winter conditions, then run it year round on summer tyres. This is a spectacularly ill-informed thing to do. A 2wd car on winters will be far safer in snow and ice than a 4wd drive car on summer tyres. 4wd gives you extra traction, but it makes diddly-squat difference to braking and cornering grip on snow. Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l2cMlNRX_A
For me an F31 s-drive with a set of winters is the best all round option - better handling (none of the x-drive wallow mentioned above), better fuel economy, and with the Goodyear winter tyres on it feels incredibly secure in all conditions through the Scottish winter.
For me an F31 s-drive with a set of winters is the best all round option - better handling (none of the x-drive wallow mentioned above), better fuel economy, and with the Goodyear winter tyres on it feels incredibly secure in all conditions through the Scottish winter.
ryallm said:
For me an F31 s-drive with a set of winters is the best all round option - better handling (none of the x-drive wallow mentioned above), better fuel economy, and with the Goodyear winter tyres on it feels incredibly secure in all conditions through the Scottish winter.
Quite a few of us run winters on our xDrives too and when combined with ACS springs and MPSS summers we really do have the best all round option 
- better handling than sDrive M Sport, better year-round traction, and better performance from that 35d engine...Helicopter123 said:
The argument will be about winter driving when in truth a RWD car equipped with winter tyres will prove far more secure than an X car on summer treads. Of course an X car with winters trumps everything but suspect no owners will bother with this option?
This. Mate of mine used to have a B7 RS4 avant, said it was one of the worst cars he's driven in the snow (due to the sticky tyres it comes with).335d said:
Quite a few of us run winters on our xDrives too and when combined with ACS springs and MPSS summers we really do have the best all round option - better handling than sDrive M Sport, better year-round traction, and better performance from that 35d engine...
A 335d xdrive on ACS springs is indeed a mega car, but it would severely rile me if I had paid £40k+ for a car and then had to fit after-market springs so it doesn't handle like a blanc mange. I simply don't get why BMW feel the need to fit x drive cars with softer springs and dampers and a raised ride height. A sop to the undiscerning American market perhaps? - better handling than sDrive M Sport, better year-round traction, and better performance from that 35d engine...Incidentally I would far rather have a rwd Alpina D3 than a 335d, but each to his own :-)
ryallm said:
C
A 335d xdrive on ACS springs is indeed a mega car, but it would severely rile me if I had paid £40k+ for a car and then had to fit after-market springs so it doesn't handle like a blanc mange. I simply don't get why BMW feel the need to fit x drive cars with softer springs and dampers and a raised ride height. A sop to the undiscerning American market perhaps?
Incidentally I would far rather have a rwd Alpina D3 than a 335d, but each to his own :-)
It annoys me too that BMW get it so wrong, particularly when there is so little downside to the ACS springs - it hardly worsens the ride while transforming the handling. Hopefully they will get it right on the next 3 Series. I have asked a couple of BMW 'Geniuses' about it and just get a shrug.A 335d xdrive on ACS springs is indeed a mega car, but it would severely rile me if I had paid £40k+ for a car and then had to fit after-market springs so it doesn't handle like a blanc mange. I simply don't get why BMW feel the need to fit x drive cars with softer springs and dampers and a raised ride height. A sop to the undiscerning American market perhaps?
Incidentally I would far rather have a rwd Alpina D3 than a 335d, but each to his own :-)
I would rather have an Alpina D3 (in either s or xDrive) as well! Unfortunately Alpina aren't keen on discounting, so the price difference between my car and an equivalent D3 is about £15k. I would buy something a whole lot better, perhaps an M5, for that money.
Odd ride height, heavy front, worse handling and worse fuel economy sums up Xdrive cars versus their counterparts in the non-SUV market.
Aftermarket is an after-thought! Let's talk about factory made cars which are 98% of cars on the road. Non enthusiasts have zero clue about aftermarket springs and ride height.
In the UK, I see little point with AWD systems if you're not going offroad or living up in the hills of Scotland or rural England. The traction control these days is pretty darn good.
Aftermarket is an after-thought! Let's talk about factory made cars which are 98% of cars on the road. Non enthusiasts have zero clue about aftermarket springs and ride height.
In the UK, I see little point with AWD systems if you're not going offroad or living up in the hills of Scotland or rural England. The traction control these days is pretty darn good.
I'm not going to be drawn into discussions but just in case anyone is waiting on a 335d and then worries in reading yet another thread that goes on about the ACS springs , x-drive vs s-drive , hanging the rear end out while booting it etc....
I am an enthusiastic driver and have had cars ranging from Elise, C63, LR Defender
Previous car was a 2014 330d s drive. Current car is 2015 LCI 335d X drive (with Adaptive). The 335d is better in every way than the 330d. Faster, better handling, better noise, better ride and no worse (maybe 2mpg) in the fuel consumption.
The 330d s drive is not set up as a power slide car. No ltd slip diff and not easy with the limited rev range.
Both great cars though.
For the odd occasion that the winter causes issues, I can't be bothered to drive with winters on. The improvement in traction with the X-drive is discernable in these conditions as the patchy loss of traction is more noticeable with 2 driven wheels as opposed to 4.
The other thing that nobody mentions is that if you are in any grassy car park (Goodwood FOS this year anyone!?) the X-drive will carry on where the sdrive would have you panicking/stationary.
I've nothing at all against the 330d SDrive but think someone has to speak up for the standard setup of the xdrive (admittedly I haven't tried a non adaptive but equally I would not try one without HK, pronav or heated seats....they are just boxes that you have to tick).
Let the rath of PH commence!
I am an enthusiastic driver and have had cars ranging from Elise, C63, LR Defender
Previous car was a 2014 330d s drive. Current car is 2015 LCI 335d X drive (with Adaptive). The 335d is better in every way than the 330d. Faster, better handling, better noise, better ride and no worse (maybe 2mpg) in the fuel consumption.
The 330d s drive is not set up as a power slide car. No ltd slip diff and not easy with the limited rev range.
Both great cars though.
For the odd occasion that the winter causes issues, I can't be bothered to drive with winters on. The improvement in traction with the X-drive is discernable in these conditions as the patchy loss of traction is more noticeable with 2 driven wheels as opposed to 4.
The other thing that nobody mentions is that if you are in any grassy car park (Goodwood FOS this year anyone!?) the X-drive will carry on where the sdrive would have you panicking/stationary.
I've nothing at all against the 330d SDrive but think someone has to speak up for the standard setup of the xdrive (admittedly I haven't tried a non adaptive but equally I would not try one without HK, pronav or heated seats....they are just boxes that you have to tick).
Let the rath of PH commence!
Fox- said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm more worried that someone thinks a diesel sounds good in the first place!
I dunno, I think the N57 sounds pretty cool.Not as cool as a 6 cylinder petrol, obviously, but better than a 4 cylinder one.
Fox- said:
Better noise? It is exactly the same N57 engine with the addition of an extra turbo. Surely it sounds the same?
The 35d have the ASD so have fake engine sound to drown out the derv clatter. Thing I like about x-drive isn't its snow and ice ability, as that's just picking an extreme example for people to try and prove a point, it's also on wet greasy roads it's doesn't have any wheel slip. Having driven powerful 2wd cars I got annoyed with slipping about on mild acceleration from low speed, and having (now) over 520 lb/ft it would be easy to light up the rears trying to nip out on a busy roundabout on a cold wet morning on my daily commute when I don't want to get to work annoyed because 'my drivers car' can't put its power down in such a scenario I encounter around 100 times a year.
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm more worried that someone thinks a diesel sounds good in the first place!
I'm grateful to have any engine noise in a modern car these days. Without ASD the M135i is near silent. The noise from the A180 CDI Merc that I drove for a while was both louder and real. It was more characterful than the M135i, slow, but characterful.335d said:
No the M Sport xDrive has SE springs, and that is exactly why the car doesn't cope well with being chucked about. The shifting weight from the soft suspension creates some odd behaviour.
The degree of improvement just by changing to better springs is remarkable. It becomes far sharper than cars with the M Sport suspension in a single step. Alpina do exactly this with their B3/D3 (sold in both sDrive and xDrive) - they just change the springs, while keeping the original BMW adaptive dampers, albeit slightly re-programmed.
You really need to try an xDrive car with a proper suspension set-up to make a sensible comparison beween sDrive and xDrive. I'm no xDrive fan boy though. I have had 4 RWD BMWs and may well have another at some point, as well as another xDrive. There are advantages/disadvantages of both set-ups.
Don't get me wrong. I'm really not a fan of 4WD and see it as only really useful for Range Rovers and rally cars. The degree of improvement just by changing to better springs is remarkable. It becomes far sharper than cars with the M Sport suspension in a single step. Alpina do exactly this with their B3/D3 (sold in both sDrive and xDrive) - they just change the springs, while keeping the original BMW adaptive dampers, albeit slightly re-programmed.
You really need to try an xDrive car with a proper suspension set-up to make a sensible comparison beween sDrive and xDrive. I'm no xDrive fan boy though. I have had 4 RWD BMWs and may well have another at some point, as well as another xDrive. There are advantages/disadvantages of both set-ups.
I just ended up in the XDrive because it was the available courtesy car on that day.I wouldn't say the 320d XDrive's handling was odd, but it was more lift-off oversteery, which was fun. Reduce that by giving it sports springs and perhaps it might rob it of some agility. To be fair though, I'm not really the kind of driver they had in mind when creating the 320d XDrive.
kingofdbrits said:
Thing I like about x-drive isn't its snow and ice ability, as that's just picking an extreme example for people to try and prove a point, it's also on wet greasy roads it's doesn't have any wheel slip. Having driven powerful 2wd cars I got annoyed with slipping about on mild acceleration from low speed, and having (now) over 520 lb/ft it would be easy to light up the rears trying to nip out on a busy roundabout on a cold wet morning on my daily commute when I don't want to get to work annoyed because 'my drivers car' can't put its power down in such a scenario I encounter around 100 times a year.
Good , me neither and for my commute, like you , I prefer 4 wheel drive for additional safety in situations you highlight .
What's a driving god ?
Safe and swift driving can be achieved in all weather and RWD on the right tyres and with minimal skill. Oversteer has little to do with which wheels are driven btw.
I am very glad 4wd road cars are available though.
Safe and swift driving can be achieved in all weather and RWD on the right tyres and with minimal skill. Oversteer has little to do with which wheels are driven btw.
I am very glad 4wd road cars are available though.
Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 18th October 10:12
I like my 335D x-drive, it's got adaptive and I use it the odd time on good roads to drive on, otherwise it's in comfort. I like the x-drive, a powerful 4wd saloon car was all I looked at before I bought it.
I surprised myself when I chose it over a really nice B7 RS4, the 335D is just as quick, far more comfortable and easier to run.
I surprised myself when I chose it over a really nice B7 RS4, the 335D is just as quick, far more comfortable and easier to run.
bennyboysvuk said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm more worried that someone thinks a diesel sounds good in the first place!
I'm grateful to have any engine noise in a modern car these days. Without ASD the M135i is near silent. The noise from the A180 CDI Merc that I drove for a while was both louder and real. It was more characterful than the M135i, slow, but characterful.I think we share a similar view of what makes for a good car(LSD/manual/RWD), would a LSD make the M135i/M235i a much better steer? or does the engine let the side down too.
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