X Drive a waste of money on 3 & 4 Series?
Discussion
FGB said:
Mr Tidy said:
ds666 said:
It's not just about snow thou. Try booting a 535d off the line or out of a t junction in the wet without the traction control flashing like there's no tomorrow and curtailing progress . Never happens in a 335d x drive .
But surely that is more about driving style/ability - the accelerator isn't an on/off switch! E65Ross said:
FGB said:
Mr Tidy said:
ds666 said:
It's not just about snow thou. Try booting a 535d off the line or out of a t junction in the wet without the traction control flashing like there's no tomorrow and curtailing progress . Never happens in a 335d x drive .
But surely that is more about driving style/ability - the accelerator isn't an on/off switch! FGB said:
E65Ross said:
FGB said:
Mr Tidy said:
ds666 said:
It's not just about snow thou. Try booting a 535d off the line or out of a t junction in the wet without the traction control flashing like there's no tomorrow and curtailing progress . Never happens in a 335d x drive .
But surely that is more about driving style/ability - the accelerator isn't an on/off switch! E92 M3 quicker round the TG track in the damp than the RS5 shows that.
I can see the appeal in 4WD, but some people prefer not to have the extra weight, cost and decreased fuel economy. In the wet you can still go silly speeds in RWD cars before it becomes a real issue with modern tyres. In the snow, RWD and winter tyres trump 4WD, and most people with 4WD cars (eg Audi quattro) do not get winter tyres....
FGB said:
E65Ross said:
FGB said:
Mr Tidy said:
ds666 said:
It's not just about snow thou. Try booting a 535d off the line or out of a t junction in the wet without the traction control flashing like there's no tomorrow and curtailing progress . Never happens in a 335d x drive .
But surely that is more about driving style/ability - the accelerator isn't an on/off switch! I find modern powerful 2wd BMWs extremely tractable in the wet and not requiring any PHDG skills, NOT that anyone has defined what a PHDG is despite me asking for a number of years.
nickfrog said:
You can't drive a X-drive in the wet the same way as you would drive the equivalent 2wd - 4wd doesn't give you any added lateral grip, it helps you manage the traction (remember it does't work under braking or turning in other than add weight, which in turn reduces lat grip). Incidentally, 4wd doesn't provide infinite traction either, unsurprisingly.
I find modern powerful 2wd BMWs extremely tractable in the wet and not requiring any PHDG skills, NOT that anyone has defined what a PHDG is despite me asking for a number of years.
Not strickly true about 4wd not cornering better in slippy conditions, being able to send power to the front can help if you're steering into the corner, but i know what you mean about it not making the tyres any grippier.I find modern powerful 2wd BMWs extremely tractable in the wet and not requiring any PHDG skills, NOT that anyone has defined what a PHDG is despite me asking for a number of years.
x-drive isn't that heavy, the 335d is 90kg's more than the 330d but then you get an extra turbo, bigger intercooler and bigger brakes, so x-drive probably adds about the same weight as I weigh more than the wife! No, i'm not that fat!
What i do like is being able to do this, even with PHD-Oaf skills (excuse the noise, i was playing with the M3 sound code) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUGYNMDUbIA
kingofdbrits said:
x-drive isn't that heavy, the 335d is 90kg's more than the 330d but then you get an extra turbo, bigger intercooler and bigger brakes, so x-drive probably adds about the same weight as I weigh more than the wife! No, i'm not that fat!
Quite so. According to the book there is only 70 k.g. difference between 320d and 320d x-drive estates - The whole vehicle is so heavy that's only about 4% of the kerb weight.Even in this forum I would hope there is a majority that does not believe in wheelspinning sideways motoring in these road cars and, as I wrote before, the rear-drive handling with good turn-in is worth having all the time.
kingofdbrits said:
What i do like is being able to do this, even with PHD-Oaf skills https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUGYNMDUbIA
Yes, people often go off at a tangent - and talk about performance in snow and the like - but for me one of the real advantages of X-Drive (probably the main advantage) is the traction in greasy conditions which enables you to pull out of junctions, roundabouts, etc, in exactly the way the video shows. We get those road conditions regularly and often in the UK and there's no doubt X-Drive is nice to have in those circumstances. Having said that my F31 335d is my first 4-wheel drive car and, while I certainly don't dislike the X-Drive system, my experience over 2 years and 31k miles hasn't left me thinking it's a must have and I'd never go back to a RWD BMW. As I say, there are certainly traction advantages in some conditions but the flip side is there's a weight and fuel consumption penalty 100% of the time (plus a handling penalty compared with S-Drive models unless you're prepared to pay more to fit something like ACS springs). So to answer the initial question posed by the thread, I don't think X-Drive's a waste of time but equally I don't think you need it unless you live somewhere that gets a lot of bad weather (in which case I can see an X-Drive on winter tyres would be preferable to 2-wheel drive).
Fox- said:
Wills2 said:
BMW UK currently sell 21 models in 126 variants in the UK with Xdrive, you can order your G30 5er or G11 7er with xdrive.
The 6er is the outlier as that's not available in the UK but is elsewhere.
You can't order your G30 yet - F10 production hasn't stopped (Though its a matter of days away). So currently he's mostly right - no XDrive 5 or 6.The 6er is the outlier as that's not available in the UK but is elsewhere.
I'm looking at the price list tonight you could order a 540i xdrive tomorrow.
Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 26th October 21:32
Wills2 said:
The G30 has been available on the system to for dealers to order since 17th October, the factory making it is in full flow.
I'm looking at the price list tonight I could order a 540i xdrive tomorrow.
I'm suprised its available for order before the dealers have even had a launch event, but I'll take your word for it!I'm looking at the price list tonight I could order a 540i xdrive tomorrow.
Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 26th October 21:26
What a negative review!
I think it's worth mentioning an M240i is a much more sorted car than an earlier M135i, with more power and superior suspension set-up (rolls less and stiffer with Adaptive dampers and an LSD - £1800 fitted).
The wastegate noise on start-up is quite nice in my opinion (and can be removed by disconnecting the valve), in fact the noise would be my last complaint, especially with the MPE. We also have an M4 with £6k of Akropovic exhaust... and I prefer the M240i's noise as its less synthesized.
B58 in Mx40i also has shed loads of torque and m2 matching straight line pace, alongside a smoother auto box for day-to-day comfort driving. To me its a performance bargain - Personally I was tempted by M2 for residuals, but not prepared to wait for build slot or pay premium. I doubt you would feel the extra benefit on the road of full fat M set-up.
996 may offer more feedback, but they are also an older, slower and more likely to brake! (lets not mention interior either) try an M240i (and add the diff and MPE) and you've got the best all rounder for £40k in my opinion.
I think it's worth mentioning an M240i is a much more sorted car than an earlier M135i, with more power and superior suspension set-up (rolls less and stiffer with Adaptive dampers and an LSD - £1800 fitted).
The wastegate noise on start-up is quite nice in my opinion (and can be removed by disconnecting the valve), in fact the noise would be my last complaint, especially with the MPE. We also have an M4 with £6k of Akropovic exhaust... and I prefer the M240i's noise as its less synthesized.
B58 in Mx40i also has shed loads of torque and m2 matching straight line pace, alongside a smoother auto box for day-to-day comfort driving. To me its a performance bargain - Personally I was tempted by M2 for residuals, but not prepared to wait for build slot or pay premium. I doubt you would feel the extra benefit on the road of full fat M set-up.
996 may offer more feedback, but they are also an older, slower and more likely to brake! (lets not mention interior either) try an M240i (and add the diff and MPE) and you've got the best all rounder for £40k in my opinion.
bennyboysvuk said:
Hi Lee. I think you'd need to test drive one for quite a while to be sure. I certainly find that having had M cars in the past, the M135i misses the mark on all of the driving stuff. At the point where you're starting to push a little harder when pressing on is exactly when the car rewards less and less and little things become annoying. Things like the lack of LSD then show up and that it rolls quite a bit and is a little understeery in balance. Then you brake hard and the hazard warning lights come on and stay on (I parked up today in the work car park, hazards flashing after braking from NSL). There are little things that annoy me about it too, like due to the wastegate being wide open on cold startup, it's a bit shouty first thing in the morning, just when I want to get away from my house quietly. Then the wastegate closes and the exhaust is pretty much mute, save for a slight air-sucking noise when flat out, but only if I have the parcel shelf removed and the rear seats down, otherwise it's inaudible.
I coded the ASD to the maximum setting and the fake engine noise is now a little more prominent, but I think it makes it seem less realistic too. It's nice to be able to hear the engine (an engine noise anyway) during everyday driving now though.
The little things that annoy me can't really be changed since the hazards can't be coded out of the braking and the engine is turbocharged, thus the huge startup noise is unavoidable.
My father in law owns an auto M135i and he loves it dearly, however even he noted that he couldn't get away from a wet T-junction very well due to the inside rear wanting to spin up. He treats the car like the small GT it is though and wouldn't replace it for anything but an M140i. He likes a quick car, but he's not a fast driver and doesn't really push it other than the odd blast of acceleration.
Overall, I really feel that the old school cars did all the feedback and NVH stuff better and I'm now leaning towards either a 996 or 997, but certainly either with a factory LSD (rare) or at least a Quaife LSD. That said, I've not test driven either yet, so I've yet to be convinced, but I'd be shocked if a 996 can't offer more direct feedback, more noise and less nannies than a new BMW.
I know that the M2 is a whole price category apart, but for the most part, it's going to be a lot better out of the box than the M135i if the current M3 is anything to go by. I think if you drove the M235i and either the current M3 or M2, you wouldn't look twice at the M235i.
I coded the ASD to the maximum setting and the fake engine noise is now a little more prominent, but I think it makes it seem less realistic too. It's nice to be able to hear the engine (an engine noise anyway) during everyday driving now though.
The little things that annoy me can't really be changed since the hazards can't be coded out of the braking and the engine is turbocharged, thus the huge startup noise is unavoidable.
My father in law owns an auto M135i and he loves it dearly, however even he noted that he couldn't get away from a wet T-junction very well due to the inside rear wanting to spin up. He treats the car like the small GT it is though and wouldn't replace it for anything but an M140i. He likes a quick car, but he's not a fast driver and doesn't really push it other than the odd blast of acceleration.
Overall, I really feel that the old school cars did all the feedback and NVH stuff better and I'm now leaning towards either a 996 or 997, but certainly either with a factory LSD (rare) or at least a Quaife LSD. That said, I've not test driven either yet, so I've yet to be convinced, but I'd be shocked if a 996 can't offer more direct feedback, more noise and less nannies than a new BMW.
I know that the M2 is a whole price category apart, but for the most part, it's going to be a lot better out of the box than the M135i if the current M3 is anything to go by. I think if you drove the M235i and either the current M3 or M2, you wouldn't look twice at the M235i.
Edited by bennyboysvuk on Wednesday 19th October 07:26
Wills2 said:
The G30 has been available on the system to for dealers to order since 17th October, the factory making it is in full flow.
I'm looking at the price list tonight you could order a 540i xdrive tomorrow.
The G30 is not on the configurator sadly. In fact, the only 5 series on there is the touring and the GT.I'm looking at the price list tonight you could order a 540i xdrive tomorrow.
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