335d F31 M Sport LCI Handling

335d F31 M Sport LCI Handling

Author
Discussion

V10M5talbs

Original Poster:

39 posts

139 months

Thursday 10th November 2016
quotequote all
I have a 2016 335d xdrive M sport LCI on 18's with factory bridgestone run flats with adaptive suspension. Anyone noticed a bit of tramlining? Nothing like my old E92 335d of course but tramlining none the less.....

Also, i was 'pressing on' on the motorway in comfort mode a few weeks ago, cought a side wind and it scared me quite a bit?? Maybe it's the fact I'm not 24 anymore and nowhere near as brave and stupid...... Maybe ACS springs would be a good idea.....

Would love some opinions from like minded F31 (or F30) LCI owners.....

Only done 6000 miles in the car, should I swap the runflats (when they're ready) for non runflats like i did on my E92? pretty much completely cured the tramlining issues.....

Love the car overall BTW.

Spec - Mineral grey, HK, Pro media plus - HUD is awesome!!, heated seats and steering wheel, adaptive, sun pro glass, high beam assistant, folding and anti dazzle mirrors.

DocSteve

718 posts

221 months

Saturday 12th November 2016
quotequote all
Hi, sorry I think I just found a PM from you - linked email account is not one I use that often now.

Tramlining was significantly reduced by changing the tyres from the Bridgestone RFTs to Michelin Pilot Super Sports. The MPSS make a big difference to the car in general and I would say the the ACS springs are excellent. I don't have adaptive suspension but have driven some cars with it but not the ACS springs and I genuinely think that the ACS springs make more of a difference. My car is on 18s which I specced deliberately.

I'm now running non-RFT Pirelli Sottozero 3s (winters, square set) and they are performing very well.

I bought mine as a practical family motor and tow for a race car. They are great cars with a bit of fettling.... Enjoy!

ratty6464

628 posts

209 months

Sunday 13th November 2016
quotequote all
Yep ditch the runflats and get ACS springs. Then leave the dampers in comfort and enjoy better road holding and more feedback

Monty Python

4,812 posts

196 months

Sunday 13th November 2016
quotequote all
It's a shame you have to resort to new springs on a new car - you'd have thought if they were that good BMW would have used something similar.

14-7

6,233 posts

190 months

Sunday 13th November 2016
quotequote all
The problem is actually the adaptive suspension/traction when in different modes especially on x-drive models.

The 3 series has always been more skittish at speed but get a 5 and they are much much better.

There may even be a court case looming between BMW and someone about their x-drive systems and the adaptive suspension/traction being dangerous in poor weather.

DocSteve

718 posts

221 months

Sunday 13th November 2016
quotequote all
14-7 said:
The problem is actually the adaptive suspension/traction when in different modes especially on x-drive models.

The 3 series has always been more skittish at speed but get a 5 and they are much much better.

There may even be a court case looming between BMW and someone about their x-drive systems and the adaptive suspension/traction being dangerous in poor weather.
Are you able to disclose any more?

I don't have adaptive and, so far, my assessment is that the car has a rear bias but I'm struggling to see how it might be dangerous - adaptive or not.

Edited by DocSteve on Sunday 13th November 21:13

GTRmad

248 posts

170 months

Sunday 13th November 2016
quotequote all
Just fit Eibach lowering springs,significantly cheaper than ACS variant.

Mattt

16,661 posts

217 months

Sunday 13th November 2016
quotequote all
Interested to hear more about this court case...

SEF74

22 posts

180 months

Sunday 13th November 2016
quotequote all
I also have a 2016 F31 335d M sport, has 19's with Bridgestone run flats and adaptive suspension. After the initial excitement of having a new car and running it in I very quickly had serious concerns about the lack of high speed stability.
I have just had ACS springs fitted at Revolution in Gateshead (North East Engalnd) and they have transformed the car from something I was seriously considering selling into the car it should have been from the factory.
It's just a shame you can't spec 'proper' M sport suspension from the factory. The car rides slightly firmer but the drop in temperature also has an impact with the run flat tires.
The ride height is perfect and does not look lowered but is certainly a vast improvement from the jacked up look with the SE springs.
I now have a car that is very stable at all speeds and is also fun on twisty A roads.

Revolution are highly recommended, competitive pricing, spotless workshop and top class workmanship.


SBN

1,025 posts

151 months

Monday 14th November 2016
quotequote all
I have had my fair share of rft + tram lining on e90 and the e46. The e46 was pretty much incurable after months of Changing various suspension and tyres etc but the e90 was like night and day when I switched from rft to normal tyres

Moving on to last year I took the plunge and got a f31 335i with 19's so no x-drive but more to the point I had heard a lot of issues about how soft the 335d set up was because of the xdrive.

My 335i rwd had rft's when I purchased it and now has a full set of new rft.... Over the last 20k miles I have seen great stability at motorway speed. No issues with side winds, and stays straight and true on areas of roads my previous BMWs with rft would have pulled me into the centre of the road or a ditch. However i will say that if the road is horrifically rutted and I mean like a farmers field that has just been ploughed it will obviously give some feedback pull through the steering but this is the same for many cars I have driven with low profile tyres

All in all the new rft are much better and I have never had any instability issues with my f31 and will probably continue with rft in the future.

Sounds like an xdrive thing to me ...

V10M5talbs

Original Poster:

39 posts

139 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
Thanks for all your reply’s/advice etc folks.

When I ordered my LCI F31 335d Xdrive, I thought it would be almost perfect with the LCI suspension improvements and my research etc. it is narking to have to fettle a car with a list price of almost £47k. My insurance company are fine with me scrapping the run-flats for standard tyres but want to know more info about the suspension springs, is it 10mm that the ACS springs lower the car by?

Has anyone got a car identical to mine that has scrapped the run flats and fitted ACS springs? Would love to chat in more detail if so…….

DocSteve – I’m not sure I know how to send e PM on here as I’m a newbie to the forum world, had my account from when I tried to sell my M5 on here a few years ago. I too deliberately specced 18’’ wheels for the purpose of ride quality and handling etc. The MPSS made a big difference to my E92 335d (bridgestone runflats on 19’s were horrendous!!) when I added them too so would more than likely buy those again I reckon, only problem is though, the standard bridgestone run-flats on my F31 have plenty of tread left, have only done 6,300 miles or so and can’t justify changing before they’re due.

Ratty6464 – yes, this certainly seems to be the way forward, what concerns me though is that I can’t ‘try before I buy’ and even if my insurance are OK with the springs mod, will the next insurance company I go with for the best price be ok with it too? And the non-runflats….

Monty Python – agreed completely.

14-7- do you think I’d of been happier with the road holding if I hadn’t specced adaptive suspension then? I couldn’t agree more about the 5 series, having owned 2x E60’s in the past (530d and M5) I’d say they were much much more stable at high speed, or have our roads deteriorated much more over the last few years…… I have aged a bit too which I don’t think helps…… I live in Leicester and the roads are generally awful but I still agree that the 5 series is in a different league for high speed stability.

GTRmad – thanks for the suggestion, always nice to have cheaper options. If I was going to go ahead with all this work, I think I’d go with ACS due to the write ups and the fact that a friend of mine who would be fitting them recommends them too (BMW master technician).

SEF74 – did you declare the ACS springs to your insurance? If so, what was the damage? I assume your car is LCI? And you’re still on run flat tyres then? How much did the springs lower the car? I quite like having the higher ride height, my E92 was always getting scuffed on speed bumps etc.
SBN – agreed totally!! One of the main reasons I ordered my F31 was due to the fact I’d spent a lot of time in my ex-boss’s 13 reg F30 330d S-drive company car (standard car, only had sun pro glass). I loved this car barring it’s Spartan spec, drove like a dream. much better road holding. Was probably a bit more enclined to push it a bit harder though as it was a company car. This was obviously on run flats too, had 18’s like mine too. Obviously the 335d xdrive seemed to be the car to choose for all year round usability, am beginning to wander if I should’ve gone for an M140i now…… can fit the dog in the back. Had an M135i as a courtesy car for the day once, 2 words – GREAT CAR!! Would I still be saying that now it’s winter though……

Us enthusiasts are a wonderfully yet awkward bunch to please hey…..

ds666

2,605 posts

178 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
There are 10 pages on f31 handling all very recent .
Regarding tramlining I've noticed it too especially in cold weather . I wonder if the extra rubber in run flats makes them more prone to tramlining in low temps ??

V10M5talbs

Original Poster:

39 posts

139 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
I agree completely, definitely much worse in this colder weather, throws the car all over the place.

I'm aware of the other topics however I wanted to focus on the LCI due to the suspension improvements.

DocSteve

718 posts

221 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
Hi again

Mine is a LCI car. I think the hard sidewalls increase the tramlining with runflats, transmitting a lot more to the car's suspension components. Although they're a lot better than they used to be runflats are still absolute rubbish for vehicle dynamics IMO.

The ACS springs lower the car by no more than 25mm; my insurance company charged me about 12 quid extra per year for that. I think they are mostly interested in how much lower you are making the car and that sort of height difference is not viewed as some sort of maverick boy racer mod.

It's an interesting question about a non-adaptive car vs adaptive both with ACS springs. I'd like to test both of them round a circuit.... However, mine was meant for towing to a circuit but not taking on it :-) Perhaps ACS and PH might want to team up with some of us to do a real-world test....

ETA - I also used to have an E60 M5 and that was a completely different animal altogether as you will know but the handling of my F31 after the ACS springs mod and ditching the runflats is pretty damn good, as is the high speed stability.

Edited by DocSteve on Tuesday 15th November 18:40

V10M5talbs

Original Poster:

39 posts

139 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
Thanks for that DocSteve, I have been doing some digging and it will cost me an extra £20.57 per year with my current insurer to do the ACS springs mod. The springs cost £300 and I'll have a price back tomorrow to fit them. Exciting times....

I also had a good chat with Lorcan at ACS earlier who was VERY helpful, really knows his stuff. He did say mind that he couldn't ever see a 3 series being as stable as a 5 series at high speeds, I admired his honesty very much.

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
If you have ACS Springs then the cream on the top is to go with what they and Alpina Recco Michelin supersports non runflat

V10M5talbs

Original Poster:

39 posts

139 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
Thanks for that Smashy, this is starting to look highly likely. All being well, I will do the ACS mod first, test it, see what I think then switch to MPSS when the Bridgestone run-flats are worn out.

smashy

3,030 posts

157 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
V10 If you do go ACS I think you will be very impressed.....I have Sdrive F30 30d Luxury.....SE suspension not adaptive which was awful in so many /every way. Going up to Rossiters in Kings lyn the sat nav took me on a 5 mile undulating B road my partner and i were laughing our socks off we were bouncing up and down like Ice Road truckers it was horrendous.

Coming back I said to her we must find that road and go again so with baited breath hit the accelerator and well it was fantastic just totally planted ,I did buy the shocks as well really very pleased,

V10M5talbs

Original Poster:

39 posts

139 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
quotequote all
Thanks again Smashy. I will be getting a price to fit the ACS springs today. One thing I am going to try before taking the plunge though is using the car in sport mode but only on the chassis for daily driving as I have the adaptive dampers. I've not got much in the way of disposable income at this time and the fact that I specced adaptive and 18'' wheels instead of 19's for what I thought would give me almost perfect road holding makes me reluctant to spend the money. I'm 99% certain that when the standard bridgestone tyres are ready to be replaced I will replace them with MPSS tyres which will improve things too and maybe that might be enough.

DocSteve

718 posts

221 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
quotequote all
V10M5talbs said:
Thanks again Smashy. I will be getting a price to fit the ACS springs today. One thing I am going to try before taking the plunge though is using the car in sport mode but only on the chassis for daily driving as I have the adaptive dampers. I've not got much in the way of disposable income at this time and the fact that I specced adaptive and 18'' wheels instead of 19's for what I thought would give me almost perfect road holding makes me reluctant to spend the money. I'm 99% certain that when the standard bridgestone tyres are ready to be replaced I will replace them with MPSS tyres which will improve things too and maybe that might be enough.
I would add further that I changed my tyres before I upgraded to the springs and the most noticeable improvement was found with the spring upgrade, although changing the tyres improved the ride and tramlining significantly (and grip - but that was only noticeably improved when, err, testing it beyond what is really required for spirited road driving). However, I don't have the adaptive suspension. One thing I have found with my non-adaptive setup is that the "chassis" option in sport mode config simply alters the steering stiffness; I don't like the artificially stiffened steering which does nothing IMO to improve actual feel so have it configured to drivetrain only. I mostly drive mine in Sport+ and manual unless driving around town at slow speeds (in which case comfort/D). On the adaptive models are you able to separate the increased "steering stiffness" from the suspension setup??

Steve