Going to look a 1987 635CSi
Discussion
I'm in the market for a 1987 E24 and there is one for sale not too far from me which I'm going to look at on Saturday.
The dealer will put a new MOT on it so thats good but its been dry stored since 2008. Its also on 198,000 miles.
It was MOT'ed in 2008 at 197,000 miles and had a bit of work to get it through and in 2015 it was MOT'ed at 198,000 miles and passed with a bit of work again and then been sat for the last year.
First of all, are these engines good for this many miles and is the car sitting around for so long going to cause issues with things like internal seals perishing?
The dealer will put a new MOT on it so thats good but its been dry stored since 2008. Its also on 198,000 miles.
It was MOT'ed in 2008 at 197,000 miles and had a bit of work to get it through and in 2015 it was MOT'ed at 198,000 miles and passed with a bit of work again and then been sat for the last year.
First of all, are these engines good for this many miles and is the car sitting around for so long going to cause issues with things like internal seals perishing?
If ever the caveat 'buy on condition' applies this is it.
Could be an absolute money pit or could just need a little work to make usable and tidy.
198k is a wedge of miles for anything however, and depending on how it has been maintained could now be due engine / gearbox rebuild, suspension / brakes replacement etc.
Unless its really cheap I'd have someone who knows these cars look it over and give you a report.
Could be an absolute money pit or could just need a little work to make usable and tidy.
198k is a wedge of miles for anything however, and depending on how it has been maintained could now be due engine / gearbox rebuild, suspension / brakes replacement etc.
Unless its really cheap I'd have someone who knows these cars look it over and give you a report.
trickywoo said:
If ever the caveat 'buy on condition' applies this is it.
Could be an absolute money pit or could just need a little work to make usable and tidy.
198k is a wedge of miles for anything however, and depending on how it has been maintained could now be due engine / gearbox rebuild, suspension / brakes replacement etc.
Unless its really cheap I'd have someone who knows these cars look it over and give you a report.
Very much this.Could be an absolute money pit or could just need a little work to make usable and tidy.
198k is a wedge of miles for anything however, and depending on how it has been maintained could now be due engine / gearbox rebuild, suspension / brakes replacement etc.
Unless its really cheap I'd have someone who knows these cars look it over and give you a report.
These cars know how to rust in ways you won't ever imagine, so unless you've done your homework it's definitely worth getting someone to take a look who really knows them.
The engines are pretty robust, but prone to cam wear due to worn banjo bolts that hold the oil spray bar. This manifests as a loud ticking sound from the engine.
Personally I wouldn't buy one that had been standing for that long unless it was really cheap and / or you're committing to it as a project. Better to find one that gets used regularly. I've owned two - the first had been sitting for about a year before I bought it and it took a while before it really felt right. More than anything else I've driven, these cars seem to benefit from regular use.
The good news is that parts availability is pretty good. The bad news is that some of those parts - chrome bumpers, front wings, etc - are rockingly expensive, and getting rid of rot could cost you a small fortune. Better to buy a good'un in the first place perhaps?
Also, be aware that it'll need new tyres if it has been sitting that long. These wore metric TRXs originally (although perhaps a previous owner has swapped to different wheels). The last time I looked, TRX tyres were circa £375 per corner.
Hopefully my dad's friend will be coming along, he used to be a BMW master technician and now has his own garage.
I used to have a P38 Range Rover, it couldn't possible go wrong more than that!?
The mileage didn't concern me as much, more the standing around.
Apparently it has a couple of spots of rust on the rear arches but thats it.
I used to have a P38 Range Rover, it couldn't possible go wrong more than that!?
The mileage didn't concern me as much, more the standing around.
Apparently it has a couple of spots of rust on the rear arches but thats it.
Edited by lewisco on Thursday 24th November 15:44
Well it looks nice and shiny in those pics...
Two points jump out at me. First - to my eyes the car is a different colour from the door shut back, compared to the front half / doors. And second, those bottletop alloys are the 390mm TRXs I mentioned above. Check their condition and DOT codes and then price in new tyres. They appear to be a mix of Avons and Michelins - both rubbish in wet weather.
The brightwork looks good, so no immediate need for new chrome bumpers etc.
If you testdrive it, make sure you get it up to motorway speeds - two things to look out for... first a wheel wobble around 50/55mph (probably control arm bushes) or under braking (could be wheel bearings, bushes, tyres, warped discs etc). You can spend ages chasing down the cause of these gremlins. Second, the spigots that act as ABS sensors rust and deteriorate - if the ABS light comes on at speed, that's most likely the cause.
Also, check the dash control lights all come on and go out as they should. It's a system renowned for earthing issues and electrical gremlins, and the batteries behind the dash have a tendency to die over time.
Other issues I had included head gasket failure, water pump failure, sticking starter motor, and a host of other stuff long since forgotten.
It's a few years since I've owned one, so all this is hazy memory stuff. No doubt there's other important stuff to check. I love a nice 635 but be prepared that (as with any old car) ownership can become a labour of love.
Two points jump out at me. First - to my eyes the car is a different colour from the door shut back, compared to the front half / doors. And second, those bottletop alloys are the 390mm TRXs I mentioned above. Check their condition and DOT codes and then price in new tyres. They appear to be a mix of Avons and Michelins - both rubbish in wet weather.
The brightwork looks good, so no immediate need for new chrome bumpers etc.
If you testdrive it, make sure you get it up to motorway speeds - two things to look out for... first a wheel wobble around 50/55mph (probably control arm bushes) or under braking (could be wheel bearings, bushes, tyres, warped discs etc). You can spend ages chasing down the cause of these gremlins. Second, the spigots that act as ABS sensors rust and deteriorate - if the ABS light comes on at speed, that's most likely the cause.
Also, check the dash control lights all come on and go out as they should. It's a system renowned for earthing issues and electrical gremlins, and the batteries behind the dash have a tendency to die over time.
Other issues I had included head gasket failure, water pump failure, sticking starter motor, and a host of other stuff long since forgotten.
It's a few years since I've owned one, so all this is hazy memory stuff. No doubt there's other important stuff to check. I love a nice 635 but be prepared that (as with any old car) ownership can become a labour of love.
Gruber said:
Well it looks nice and shiny in those pics...
Two points jump out at me. First - to my eyes the car is a different colour from the door shut back, compared to the front half / doors.
This was the first thing that hit me too. He said its just the camera and other grey cars show the same differences. I will reserve judgement until I see it.Two points jump out at me. First - to my eyes the car is a different colour from the door shut back, compared to the front half / doors.
Gruber said:
And second, those bottletop alloys are the 390mm TRXs I mentioned above. Check their condition and DOT codes and then price in new tyres. They appear to be a mix of Avons and Michelins - both rubbish in wet weather.
I think I might budget for a different set of BMW wheels in regular sizes.Gruber said:
The brightwork looks good, so no immediate need for new chrome bumpers etc.
If you testdrive it, make sure you get it up to motorway speeds - two things to look out for... first a wheel wobble around 50/55mph (probably control arm bushes) or under braking (could be wheel bearings, bushes, tyres, warped discs etc). You can spend ages chasing down the cause of these gremlins. Second, the spigots that act as ABS sensors rust and deteriorate - if the ABS light comes on at speed, that's most likely the cause.
Also, check the dash control lights all come on and go out as they should. It's a system renowned for earthing issues and electrical gremlins, and the batteries behind the dash have a tendency to die over time.
Other issues I had included head gasket failure, water pump failure, sticking starter motor, and a host of other stuff long since forgotten.
It's a few years since I've owned one, so all this is hazy memory stuff. No doubt there's other important stuff to check. I love a nice 635 but be prepared that (as with any old car) ownership can become a labour of love.
Will keep a look out for the other things. The Range Rover I got last time had the thermostat fail on the way home which caused the engine to overheat and warp the head If you testdrive it, make sure you get it up to motorway speeds - two things to look out for... first a wheel wobble around 50/55mph (probably control arm bushes) or under braking (could be wheel bearings, bushes, tyres, warped discs etc). You can spend ages chasing down the cause of these gremlins. Second, the spigots that act as ABS sensors rust and deteriorate - if the ABS light comes on at speed, that's most likely the cause.
Also, check the dash control lights all come on and go out as they should. It's a system renowned for earthing issues and electrical gremlins, and the batteries behind the dash have a tendency to die over time.
Other issues I had included head gasket failure, water pump failure, sticking starter motor, and a host of other stuff long since forgotten.
It's a few years since I've owned one, so all this is hazy memory stuff. No doubt there's other important stuff to check. I love a nice 635 but be prepared that (as with any old car) ownership can become a labour of love.
If it's anywhere near Sheffield/Chesterfield, I will gladly inspect it for a fee,
E24's are a very deep hole into which copious amounts of tens and twenties can be poured. 198'000 miles kills the resale value dead - it will never be valuable.
A decent 4HP22 box rebuild is £1500+
A top end rebuild is £2500 +
They rot everywhere. These were well made cars, and whilst they took longer to rot than (say) the XJS, they still rot. You'll sink £5000+ in the blink of an eye.
Shagged suspension, shagged hydraulic boosted brakes, metric tyres and the heart attack inducing cost of chrome trim.
Don't underestimate the cost of restoring/maintaining an E24. On the upside they're quite pleasant to drive.
Think long and hard, buy it cheap and have it properly inspected by someone who really knows them and isn't interested in actually working on it!
E24's are a very deep hole into which copious amounts of tens and twenties can be poured. 198'000 miles kills the resale value dead - it will never be valuable.
A decent 4HP22 box rebuild is £1500+
A top end rebuild is £2500 +
They rot everywhere. These were well made cars, and whilst they took longer to rot than (say) the XJS, they still rot. You'll sink £5000+ in the blink of an eye.
Shagged suspension, shagged hydraulic boosted brakes, metric tyres and the heart attack inducing cost of chrome trim.
Don't underestimate the cost of restoring/maintaining an E24. On the upside they're quite pleasant to drive.
Think long and hard, buy it cheap and have it properly inspected by someone who really knows them and isn't interested in actually working on it!
iSore said:
On the upside they're quite pleasant to drive.
In all my doom-mongering above, I realise I forget to say this! Everything Mr iSore says about them is bang on. Including the comment about value. At 200k miles, it'll never be worth a great deal. Prices of these cars haven't really moved much in the last few years - there was a big up-shift about 6/7 years ago and since then it is only the really low mileage minty ones that are commanding big money and even they seem to take ages to shift.
But... they make lovely grand tourers. I took mine down to the Dordogne, to Le Mans, all over the UK... the M30 is a nice strong torquey engine - still quick enough by today's standards and actually quite economical on a motorway run. They look ace, attract lots of positive comment, and (whisper this) go sideways in a marvellously refined manner - especially if you can find one with the rare factory LSD option.
So go for it. But go in eyes wide open and with a decent slush fund for running costs.
Thanks for the realistic comments.
My plan would be to use it for exactly that, driving down to Le Mans and other holidays in Europe.
I'm more than happy to do some mechanical work and I checked on cars being broken on eBay that another engine would be £350. Of course you don't know what that engine is like.
It would be a car I'd like to keep for a long time so not too concerned about resale.
My plan would be to use it for exactly that, driving down to Le Mans and other holidays in Europe.
I'm more than happy to do some mechanical work and I checked on cars being broken on eBay that another engine would be £350. Of course you don't know what that engine is like.
It would be a car I'd like to keep for a long time so not too concerned about resale.
You've forced me onto the classifieds...
Personally, at roughly the budget of your example, I'd be tempted by this one:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C807479
It's the right colour, has a much cleaner interior than your example, the ad says it has had the engine, suspension and major bodywork issues sorted, and the ad reads as if the car has seen regular use.
Gotta be worth a look!
Personally, at roughly the budget of your example, I'd be tempted by this one:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C807479
It's the right colour, has a much cleaner interior than your example, the ad says it has had the engine, suspension and major bodywork issues sorted, and the ad reads as if the car has seen regular use.
Gotta be worth a look!
So I went to have a look at in on the weekend at
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272454015082
Very nice overall but a couple of things to note.
The sunroof doesn't look like it closes fully which could be the cause of the biggest issue I found, a soaking wet drivers footwell carpet by the accelerator pedal.
There is also:
No service history at all
A chip and dent in the front chrome bumper
The wheels are the old style so when it needs new tyres would be best to get other wheels
Heater blew cold from the front facing vents when set to hot, window and foot heaters did blow hot
Drivers side rear window did not go down and all the other windows were lazy but that will be because its been sitting probably
Engine was quite tappety even after a 30 min drive
But it looked great for the age and drove well. At the very least I know I want a 635CSi!!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272454015082
Very nice overall but a couple of things to note.
The sunroof doesn't look like it closes fully which could be the cause of the biggest issue I found, a soaking wet drivers footwell carpet by the accelerator pedal.
There is also:
No service history at all
A chip and dent in the front chrome bumper
The wheels are the old style so when it needs new tyres would be best to get other wheels
Heater blew cold from the front facing vents when set to hot, window and foot heaters did blow hot
Drivers side rear window did not go down and all the other windows were lazy but that will be because its been sitting probably
Engine was quite tappety even after a 30 min drive
But it looked great for the age and drove well. At the very least I know I want a 635CSi!!
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