BMW star rated tyres

BMW star rated tyres

Author
Discussion

The Stiglet

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

193 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
I purchased an AUC X5 E70 at the end of summer last year. I've only done about 3,000 miles or so but it's had a list of problems that BMW have had to deal with under warranty.

Specifically to this thread, it's needed a new front differential, rear differential, front hub, drive shaft and a transfer case. The car came with non RFTs, without a BMW star rating - Continental Sport Contact 3s on the front and Continental Sport Contact 5s on the rear. All have equal tread and wear on 20" wheels. The car was specced new with standard 19" wheels that were later upgraded to the 20" ones.

BMW have chucked money at the car to fix it but haven't provided me with any real technical feedback as to why the car needed two diffs and a transfer case, which seems crazy at 60,000 miles. It hasn't towed and was driven by the same lady owner for the last 5 years. My specific question to the Forum is, are my 'non-star approved' tyres the culprit? If so, should I replace them with starred RFTs?

I've seen the previous thread on BMW star rated tyres and included this quote below, which I would agree with but I'm now unsure. Any help would be greatly received.



dandle said:
The branding of the tyres is to do with the deals the tyre companies do with the manufacturers to get their tyres onto new cars. That is where they will gain most of their profit from people who buy the cars new and will generally stick to the original tyre for the first three sets (thats what they work it out to as a benchmark)the tyres are no different and not tuned to Mercedes or BMW spec infact the same size tyre is the same unit price to the wholesaler, weather it be AO, *, or MO. The thing anout the rolling radius is rubbish too, that is worked out on the profile change between the different width front and rear tyre.

People who have problems with BMW and tyres are generally either using poor quality or midrange tyres or they are mxing brands of tyre on or between the axles which these car are quite fussy about.

Edited by dandle on Monday 12th March 09:35
Link to thread

Edited by The Stiglet on Monday 23 January 13:47

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
I think the post you quote is spot on. The difference in performance between different brands of *, M, N marked tyres is so noticeable to make the 'approval' system risible.

Any reputable brand with tyres of the right siz, spec and with similar tread depth should be fine.

Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
I think the post you quote is spot on. The difference in performance between different brands of *, M, N marked tyres is so noticeable to make the 'approval' system risible.

Any reputable brand with tyres of the right siz, spec and with similar tread depth should be fine.
The problem though (Although I'm surprised not in this circumstance) is that you give up manufacturer support if you don't fit them because they just blame the tyres and that is that. Nobody seems to be able to definitely explain what the Star Marking actually means and why its there and whilst I suspect it's complete rubbish you end up with no leg to stand in in the event of drive-train issues which could potentially be tyre related.

I fitted non Star Marked F1 A2's to my last F10 and they look like completely different tyres to the Star Marked tyres on my current F10 with exactly the same wheels (I've still got the old wheels to compare!). If I didn't know better I'd have assumed the star marked tyres were a narrower - they curve inwards noticeably towards the tread whereas the non star marked ones do not.

I need new tyres soon and in an ideal world I would fit 4 F1A3 non RFT or CSC6's but I envisage hassle and difficulty in the event of any issues so I'm loath to stray from Star Marked tyres until its a bit older.

What happened to the old days of just buying reputable tyres from a reputable manufacturer in the right size frown

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
I have no doubt that the dealers will often use the star marking as an excuse. Probably quite high up the list.

I understand your experience too, it's quite possible that a manufacturer branded tyre might be cosmetically different to a non marked one. Doesn't mean it's any better or worse.

Here's one experience of mine; I bought a new 911S, fitted with Pirelli P zero Rosso tyres. The car would spin its rears quite easily, slide the rear under not that much power and the rears were down to the twis in 10K.

I replaced the whole set with Michelin PS2s. No wheel spin without massive provocation, no sliding and at 14K the rears were still quite legal. Same driver and driving.

Both sets of tyres were N marked and my point is that different brands can give big differences in behaviour, grip and wear whilst still apparently meeting the specification for the manufacturer's marking. It's hard to figure out just what parameters are assessed in order to get manufacturer approval. I'm thinking that as long as they meet some averagely adequate performance level, the price will be the key factor.

Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
I am absolutely confident that there will be no difference in performance between a regular Eagle F1 AS3 and a BMW Star Marked example.

Sadly I am also absolutely confident that if I show up at a main dealer with a drivetrain issue with non star marked tyres on my car it'll be 'the tyres mate'.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Fox- said:
I am absolutely confident that there will be no difference in performance between a regular Eagle F1 AS3 and a BMW Star Marked example.

Sadly I am also absolutely confident that if I show up at a main dealer with a drivetrain issue with non star marked tyres on my car it'll be 'the tyres mate'.
I don't doubt it!!

The Stiglet

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

193 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
In the AUC check BMW are allowed to sell the car without star approved tyres. Therefore, I would strongly argue that any drivetrain issues be covered under the warranty as it's an AUC car with all the associated protection. Otherwise what's the point of buying AUC?

So far, they've spent a small fortune repairing mine but then I did have to reject an F10 535d earlier in the year and I wrote to the CEO complaining about my torrid experience with both cars.

The transfer case is getting put in this week but if my tyres are causing the problems then I'd like those replaced too. From my research, non starred isn't a problem on RWD or FWD or indeed, matched wheel sizes. The problem is staggered set ups and XDrive with chocolate transfer boxes.

I'm nervous because what else could possibly cause these failures?

The Stiglet

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

193 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
It's taken six weeks of negotiation between the dealer and the warranty company but they finally agreed to pay out on transfer box and I have the car back. The dealer was asked to measure the circumference of all the tyres, check the tread depth, tread patterns, weight of the tyres - plus a whole load of other tests. It seems like they tried everything to wiggle out of it. As they were fitting the transfer box they noticed that the prop shaft was fairly mauled so they've replaced that too. Overall, I'm very close to having a new car!

BMW also agreed to replace all my tyres with star rated tyres should I wish. I think I will be taking them up on that offer...

Output Flange

16,793 posts

210 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
The Stiglet said:
BMW also agreed to replace all my tyres with star rated tyres should I wish. I think I will be taking them up on that offer...
Did they agree to replace them with new star rated tyres though? If not, I'd be inclined to fund the difference to get brand new rubber on there.

VerySideways

10,237 posts

271 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
Star rated is about weight as much as it is about circumference - make sure you get a full set of matching star marked as part of the deal or you'll be knocking on their door again sooner than they'd like!

The Stiglet

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

193 months

Wednesday 8th February 2017
quotequote all
Output Flange said:
Did they agree to replace them with new star rated tyres though? If not, I'd be inclined to fund the difference to get brand new rubber on there.
Yes, brand new. I was prepared to pay for it myself but negotiated this added compensation from BMW.


VerySideways said:
Star rated is about weight as much as it is about circumference - make sure you get a full set of matching star marked as part of the deal or you'll be knocking on their door again sooner than they'd like!
That's a frightening scenario! The technicians thought that the tyres wouldn't make a difference. The warranty company haven't been able to prove that there is anything wrong with the tyres either. It appears to be an internet myth which might actually be based on fact, which is very difficult to prove wobble

VerySideways

10,237 posts

271 months

Wednesday 8th February 2017
quotequote all
I ended up chasing information about star marked tyres for my E83 X3 back to BMW in Germany because of a shortage of the required Dunlops at the time. That's when I found out that the staggered fitment tyres were manufactured to match on both rolling radius AND weight.
Absolutely shocking.
So in theory even the correct star marked tyres could cause problems if you have a brand new axle pair at one end and 80% worn pair on the other axle (!!!).

aquarianone

498 posts

176 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
I'm sure I read something recently (on US BMW forum) that star or manufacturer specific branded tyres are actually a lot worse off...and that they're made to a lower spec to deliver a higher margin or something...i'm pretty sure the resulting discussion eventually suggested never to buy the star branded tyre and go with the originals...

VerySideways

10,237 posts

271 months

Friday 10th February 2017
quotequote all
aquarianone said:
I'm sure I read something recently (on US BMW forum) that star or manufacturer specific branded tyres are actually a lot worse off...and that they're made to a lower spec to deliver a higher margin or something...i'm pretty sure the resulting discussion eventually suggested never to buy the star branded tyre and go with the originals...
From the people who just voted Trump in as their leader for the next 4 years? biggrin

The original equipment tyres on a 4wd X3 or X5 are star marked for a reason - and there is lots and lots of evidence that NOT using those tyres often causes transfer case issues.

Wills2

22,666 posts

174 months

Friday 10th February 2017
quotequote all
No one really knows but BMW & the tyre suppliers say they are designed for the specific application/car, yet people choose to ignore that and the lack of hard evidence to contradict the statement and convince themselves it's all marketing bks or that the tyres are dumbed down in some way (crazy idea BTW)

I'll continue to use the star market tyres they are no different in price after all and I don't have any issues.




bunchofkeys

1,046 posts

67 months

Tuesday 19th February 2019
quotequote all
Bit of a thread revival, but I've been looking around to try and find out more about these * tyres, and i think that it's necessary to have them fitted to an X drive BMW.

I recently bought a MY2010 e70, which was fitted with 3 x Continental ContiSport5 SSR and one Bridgestone Duler (on the rear), all with the * mark. The car would drove without any issues with these fitted.
With the "winter snow, beast from the east" approaching, i thought i would invest in some winter tyres.

So i bought into 4 WinterContacts TS860S, non *, and had then fitted.

Whilst driving about town, i did notice that there was a bit more of a vibration felt in the cabin, and that tight turns would (for lack of a better word) scrub the tyres on the ground.
Worst of all though was when accelerating there would be a jerk/judder throughout the car, much like slipping the clutch in a manual.

Had the X5 checked through by an BMW indy, and then measured the circumference of the front and rear tyres, which were the correct size for the 20" oem staggered alloys.
Turns out that the front were 25mm larger in circumference than the rear and the transfer case needed to adjust different size tyres, hence the jerk when pushing on.

Thankfully i still had the old tyres, so i have the local fitters swap them back over, and the jerky driving/judder/vibrations have now gone.

Seems like i've spent quite a bit on tyres that i can no longer use, which i'm a bit pissed off about (guess i will dump them on ebay), but lesson learnt.
The * mark is a necessity on at least the X drive BMW, and having non * marked tyres can be a costly mistake.

Although i doubt that any BMW, which is not an X drive, would be bothered by the * marks on the tyres, as they are only rear wheel drive.

Smuler

2,286 posts

138 months

Wednesday 20th February 2019
quotequote all
Agreed.
My X drive needs * marked.
My M3 very happy with the non * Michelin 4S

Pica-Pica

13,621 posts

83 months

Wednesday 20th February 2019
quotequote all
Fox- said:
I am absolutely confident that there will be no difference in performance between a regular Eagle F1 AS3 and a BMW Star Marked example.

Sadly I am also absolutely confident that if I show up at a main dealer with a drivetrain issue with non star marked tyres on my car it'll be 'the tyres mate'.
I am also absolutely sure that of you turn up at a main dealer you will not be addressed as ‘mate’.

mmm-five

11,226 posts

283 months

Wednesday 20th February 2019
quotequote all
bunchofkeys said:
Bit of a thread revival, but I've been looking around to try and find out more about these * tyres, and i think that it's necessary to have them fitted to an X drive BMW.

I recently bought a MY2010 e70, which was fitted with 3 x Continental ContiSport5 SSR and one Bridgestone Duler (on the rear), all with the * mark. The car would drove without any issues with these fitted.
With the "winter snow, beast from the east" approaching, i thought i would invest in some winter tyres.

So i bought into 4 WinterContacts TS860S, non *, and had then fitted.

Whilst driving about town, i did notice that there was a bit more of a vibration felt in the cabin, and that tight turns would (for lack of a better word) scrub the tyres on the ground.
Worst of all though was when accelerating there would be a jerk/judder throughout the car, much like slipping the clutch in a manual.

Had the X5 checked through by an BMW indy, and then measured the circumference of the front and rear tyres, which were the correct size for the 20" oem staggered alloys.
Turns out that the front were 25mm larger in circumference than the rear and the transfer case needed to adjust different size tyres, hence the jerk when pushing on.

Thankfully i still had the old tyres, so i have the local fitters swap them back over, and the jerky driving/judder/vibrations have now gone.

Seems like i've spent quite a bit on tyres that i can no longer use, which i'm a bit pissed off about (guess i will dump them on ebay), but lesson learnt.
The * mark is a necessity on at least the X drive BMW, and having non * marked tyres can be a costly mistake.

Although i doubt that any BMW, which is not an X drive, would be bothered by the * marks on the tyres, as they are only rear wheel drive.
You thought your new WINTER tyres would be as quiet & grippy as your SUMMER tyres - and you didn't keep the same tyre size front & rear (275/40r20 or did you go for the 315/35/20 rear? which is only 2mm larger in circumference) - and then you winder why 'something doesn't feel right'! That's got nothing to do with a star mark - that's purely down to tyre fitting screw-up.

Star marked has nothing to do with which wheels are driven! My Z4MC was fitted with Continental SportContact M3 tyres (as standard) with a star mark and they were about the worse major brand tyre I've ever used. Maybe they were designed specifically for the softer suspension of the e46 M3, but they just didn't work on the MUCH stiffer Z4Ms.

mmm-five

11,226 posts

283 months

Wednesday 20th February 2019
quotequote all
Smuler said:
Agreed.
My X drive needs * marked.
My M3 very happy with the non * Michelin 4S
If you're happy with them and there's no performance/price difference they I don't see any issue in that.

But, why does your X-drive 'need' star marked - is it mandated by BMW and their warranty terms, or does the car cry when you go near it with non-star tyres?

My manual says I must have star marked tyres, and for a while I did keep buying them (but moved from OE Continental SportContact M3 to Michelin PS2) for fear of invalidating the warranty - but they were almost always about £20/corner more expensive than the same, non star-marked tyres, and they tended to be softer (i.e. less miles).

It was never a scientific test, but on the same 25,000 miles annual commute, the star-marked SportContact M3/Michelin PS2 would provide less than 10,000 miles on the rear and about double on the front. 2 years later, the Pilot SuperSport (non star-marked) came out and it was suggested I try them, and despite providing better performance in all conditions, they delivered almost double the mileage (on the exact same commute).

[tin-foil-hat]
I wouldn't be surprised if BMW get a 'rebate' on each star-marked tyre that is sold, so by collaborating on a marque-specific model, they can get the tyre manufacturer to make it at a slightly cheaper price due to guaranteeing to fit them to all new cars, and then stipulate in the warranty that those tyres have to be fitted to maintain it.
[/tin-foil-hat]