E92 335i or E46 M3?

E92 335i or E46 M3?

Author
Discussion

shotta287

Original Poster:

852 posts

93 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
Hi all,
Looking for some advice and opinions from people who have owned both or either of these cars.
Considering a 2008/09 335i auto or a 2004ish M3 SMG. How different are both cars on a daily basis? The E46 is timeless but interior is definitely outdated now. From what I've researched so far, both have superb engines but the N54 seems prone to problems.
Thanks in advance smile

Edited by shotta287 on Sunday 19th February 12:30

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
Both are great.

One E46 M3 will always be more special as it is - halo model with proper Motorsport extras the 335i simply will not have.

I've not driven the 335i but have a stick shift M3 E46 - I'd not really expected it to be so good even though when I drove it the M4 was out. The engine is a masterpiece handling great.
Sure it's interior is older but it's a timeless design.

The E92 newer but still old - at its newest it's what 7+ years old (10 reg) I had the E90 330d M sport it was a lovely steer and when I sold it it was still like new even with c120k on the clock.

I'd say the opportunity to own and drive an E46 M3 as a daily is getting less and less (remember /can you remember the last time you saw a E36 M3/Evo commuting? Nope nor can I and they are special cars indeed)

Smuler

2,286 posts

138 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
shotta287 said:
Hi all,
Looking for some advice and opinions from people who have owned both or either of these cars.
Considering a 2008/09 335i auto or a 2004ish M3 SMG. How different are both cars on a daily basis? The E46 is timeless but interior is definitely outdated now. From what I've researched so far, both have superb engines but the N54 seems prone to problems.
Thanks in advance smile

Edited by shotta287 on Sunday 19th February 12:30
I went from 2009, 59, 335i E92 Coupe with DCT to 2004, 54, M3, Manual.

I prefer looks and size of M3. Against that, the stealth image of the 335i is better for a daily driver, I'm presently, for the first time daily driving my M3 and it gets some fun attention (women flirting) and some PITA attention, boy racers.

The M3 is a different level on chassis/handling, so if you're looking for thrills on the b/roads it's the only choice.

As a daily driver*, however, I preferred the 335i. The N54 engine with the torque is so more flexible and the car feels faster in situations other than when you're really revving it out.

  • in my case a rush hour 45 mile commute, long motorway trips, city driving.
I feel the M3 interior is more classic than dated, but agree a 335i has the later technology, although I'd recommend one with the newer I Drive, CIC the earliest of which I've seen on a few late 58 plates.

Running costs, between 10/2014 and 05/2016 my 335i cost me about 22p / per mile in petrol, my M3 using a higher RON costs me about 31p/per mile but that's mostly been a mixture of sedate driving to the best b roads and then some exciting blasts, I think stop start daily could be worse. Servicing is a lot higher on M3, with Inspection 1 and 2 running at 685£ and 898£ (checked today), highest service on 335i is 414, oil and various filters£

I only had injectors done on my 335i (none of the other issues I bet you researched) and therefore otherwise faultless to 85k. I researched that 2009 was the best year for N54 and that proved right, in my case.

You could obviate 335i concerns with a warranty, similarly with M3 but I seem to recall these were double the price.

I'm very happy with my M3, it's my preference but am very glad I had my 335i when I had the demanding daily driving needs.






shotta287

Original Poster:

852 posts

93 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
quotequote all
Smuler said:
I went from 2009, 59, 335i E92 Coupe with DCT to 2004, 54, M3, Manual.

I prefer looks and size of M3. Against that, the stealth image of the 335i is better for a daily driver, I'm presently, for the first time daily driving my M3 and it gets some fun attention (women flirting) and some PITA attention, boy racers.

The M3 is a different level on chassis/handling, so if you're looking for thrills on the b/roads it's the only choice.

As a daily driver*, however, I preferred the 335i. The N54 engine with the torque is so more flexible and the car feels faster in situations other than when you're really revving it out.

  • in my case a rush hour 45 mile commute, long motorway trips, city driving.
I feel the M3 interior is more classic than dated, but agree a 335i has the later technology, although I'd recommend one with the newer I Drive, CIC the earliest of which I've seen on a few late 58 plates.

Running costs, between 10/2014 and 05/2016 my 335i cost me about 22p / per mile in petrol, my M3 using a higher RON costs me about 31p/per mile but that's mostly been a mixture of sedate driving to the best b roads and then some exciting blasts, I think stop start daily could be worse. Servicing is a lot higher on M3, with Inspection 1 and 2 running at 685£ and 898£ (checked today), highest service on 335i is 414, oil and various filters£

I only had injectors done on my 335i (none of the other issues I bet you researched) and therefore otherwise faultless to 85k. I researched that 2009 was the best year for N54 and that proved right, in my case.

You could obviate 335i concerns with a warranty, similarly with M3 but I seem to recall these were double the price.

I'm very happy with my M3, it's my preference but am very glad I had my 335i when I had the demanding daily driving needs.
Thanks for the informative response. I have a stop/start 22 mile round commute to and back from work everyday and would really like an auto so rules out manual. I've read the SMG box in the M3 can be a pain in auto mode while the 335i has the regular torque converter auto and DCT was an option. Did your DCT 335i creep with foot off brake?
In terms of engines then, while it seems the M3 is the more spectacular, is it really that much better than the N54?

Smuler

2,286 posts

138 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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I found SMG jerky in auto mode, it's really a manual without a clutch I would say a set up for fast roads or track not a commute.
Steptronic auto in 335i is just a regular auto. I first drove a DCT in a E92 M3 in 2013 and my review on here said it was like having a racing driver doing shifts for you; much better than even the 8 speed zf auto I had driven five minutes before in the. M135i
The 335i DCT was similar when in sport mode, faster, more exciting and manual mode was more involving , when compared to the steptronic. It's characteristics otherwise were like a normal automatic.

Both engines are excellent, I the S54 is more exciting although that is at its best when you can rev to redline.
Otherwise as I said as a daily, the 335i is so much more flexible in the scenarios described.

ladderino

727 posts

138 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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I have a 335i Touring. In that guise, it's pretty much perfect for me given I've got 2 kids (I've had it now for 6+ years, I normally struggle to keep something for 2 years).

That said, I'm not sure how much I'd like it in coupe form - the engine is a bit of a brute, so whilst you get a lot of power, you don't have to work very hard to get it. This isn't such a problem in the estate, as the size of it already means it's going to be a barge, and the power means that I can have a bit of fun when the kids aren't in the back. However, I'm just not sure how involving the car would be as a coupe.

The lack of an LSD really curtails the car, which along with the stiffness of the M Sport springs, means it doesn't take much before the DTC steps in and kills all the power. I'd suggest factoring in the Birds Dynamic package or an equivalent if you're sold on the E92.

Given the choice, I'd be going for the M3.

Smuler

2,286 posts

138 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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ladderino said:
I have a 335i Touring. In that guise, it's pretty much perfect for me given I've got 2 kids (I've had it now for 6+ years, I normally struggle to keep something for 2 years).

That said, I'm not sure how much I'd like it in coupe form - the engine is a bit of a brute, so whilst you get a lot of power, you don't have to work very hard to get it. This isn't such a problem in the estate, as the size of it already means it's going to be a barge, and the power means that I can have a bit of fun when the kids aren't in the back. However, I'm just not sure how involving the car would be as a coupe.

The lack of an LSD really curtails the car, which along with the stiffness of the M Sport springs, means it doesn't take much before the DTC steps in and kills all the power. I'd suggest factoring in the Birds Dynamic package or an equivalent if you're sold on the E92.

Given the choice, I'd be going for the M3.
Interesting, after I switched from RFTs I wasn't troubled by DTC, in my coupe, though I agree that the power of the car is greater than the chassis and when i took it on the same b roads I take the M3, in this case sometimes with traction off/reduced, it would need a better chassis/ suspension to make the most of that power, but even then not up to what M3 can achieve.

However, this may not be the OPs needs in which case I found that the right tyres made a big difference and in fact , after switching to 17s for winters, I kept them on and tried them with Michelin Pilot Sport 4s, which i found better than the Pilot Super Sports I had on the 19s. Car felt lighter this way , more like previous my E46 M Sport.

Birds' LSD etc. did interest me, but they would only allow me to have a ride in their demo and not drive it for "insurance purposes" so I declined.


Edited by Smuler on Monday 20th February 07:42

SebringMan

1,773 posts

185 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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I've got an E46 M3 with the non driver's gearbox.

To Summarise:
-B Road blasting is superb, but it is also a great long distance car
-It can seat 4 in comfort and their luggage ; if they are below 6 foot
-Comfy inside? You bet! Seats are lovely, and the controls are nicely weighted. I thought the inside would date badly but it's got its own charm.

BUT; while it’s out of the depreciation zone it’s not cheap to run. Here’s a rundown of the consumables:
Tyres = £180-200 for anything that will last beyond 10,000 miles on the rear and grip
Brakes = £330-550 (OE to Genuine) for discs and pads per axle
MPG = Around 21MPG around town, 30+MPG on a run. I've once hit 34MPG on a 75mph trip!
Rust = Front wings can go rusty and are £300+ a piece for new items. Quite a few E46s are afflicted with this ; certainly from what I have seen.

Here's a timeline of the costs I've had. FWIW if I gave the other jobs to a garage I reckon you can add £1k to my costs, working off a garage not breaking anything and working at £50/hour
http://www.pistonheads.com/members/showServiceHist...

As for the gearbox? It's not too bad. I sort of wanted one as I fancy an underdog and coming from MX-5s and other British cars I've never thought much to BMW 'boxes after my last E36 was a manual ; I've driven a couple of manuals too (in E46 M3 flavour). In short:
-You almost have to relearn how to use a gearbox ; it can be done
-Auto mote doesn't compare to a modern auto but it's not too bad. IME it's not horrifically jerky.
-When you get it right the gearbox can be rewarding and it has it quirks ; I even heel and toe with it

Perfect? Not a chance. Enjoyable? With time and practice, yes smile. I do however plan to do the CSL 'bits' which are meant to make a great difference.

Seeing as I own one I couldn't recommend one to you. It's not the most expensive car (yet!) that I've owned from a monthly running cost POV either, but hopefully that will stay the same. But despite the costs I really do like mine! It's got a bit of GT car about it, can be very agile and sporty as well as being practical. It's very almost the car that's all things to all men.

Damn, I'm meant to save people, not encourage them to buy these things. At least the above is my POS laugh


GTEYE

2,092 posts

209 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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Welshbeef said:
The E92 newer but still old - at its newest it's what 7+ years old (10 reg)


Not quite true, the E92 was on sale until late 2013, and the E93 until spring 2014.....I've got a very late "14" plate example still under warranty.

So...they don't have to be that old!

The Stiglet

2,062 posts

193 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the common mechanical issues associated with these cars. The M3's subframe mounts cracking scared me off a few years ago. The SMG versions have their own issues. VANOS wouldn't bother me as it can be fixed relatively cheaply these days.

The 335i with the N54 can blow turbos and seem to need replacement HPFPs.

I'd rather have the E46 M3 but only a well sorted one.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
The Stiglet said:
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the common mechanical issues associated with these cars. The M3's subframe mounts cracking scared me off a few years ago. The SMG versions have their own issues. VANOS wouldn't bother me as it can be fixed relatively cheaply these days.

The 335i with the N54 can blow turbos and seem to need replacement HPFPs.

I'd rather have the E46 M3 but only a well sorted one.
Can the cracking not be repaired if it happens? Weld it up?

The Stiglet

2,062 posts

193 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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Welshbeef said:
Can the cracking not be repaired if it happens? Weld it up?
yes, but I think it comes back and it's worse with the SMGs due to the thump of the gear changes torquing the rear subframe.

FUBMW

39 posts

138 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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I have a E92 335i Auto. I've had it for just over a year and I love it.

On a long rung I get around 30 MPG and around town 21-22. The auto box is very smooth and complements the engine beautifully, although not as well as a DCT might, I suspect.

It's never going to be as fun to drive as the E46 M3, but it is expremely comfortable and the engine is great and unstressed, but sings when you're on it. Foot to the floor in 3rd gear from any revs is always a suprise. Comfort is good too, as well as refinement. Having a conversation at Autobahn speeds is easily done and is a beautiful cruiser when you need it to be.

Mine is a low mileage late 2008 model. Under 50000 miles it still needed two new turbos which BMW did under AUC warranty. Not sure how bad the issue really is, but I think worth it to have it done or have 2-3K aside for when it does need it.

Mine was up for sale recently, but being January no-one offered me anywhere close to what I wanted. But keeping it is no bad thing as it is so so easy to live with.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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The 335i has massive tuning potential if that is something you would consider. You could upgrade the turbos to hybrid ones, remap and it would be an absolute beast. That's my bias though as I think the E92 platform is better than the E46.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Super_G said:
The 335i has massive tuning potential if that is something you would consider. You could upgrade the turbos to hybrid ones, remap and it would be an absolute beast. That's my bias though as I think the E92 platform is better than the E46.
This is true and the original twin turbo set up is massively more tunable than he later single Turbo unit.

SebringMan

1,773 posts

185 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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The Stiglet said:
yes, but I think it comes back and it's worse with the SMGs due to the thump of the gear changes torquing the rear subframe.
The SMG thing is a myth.

ONe of the worst cars known is a manual 60,000 mile car with one owner from new. It's on Redish's YouTube channel. I believe the owner is trying to get a goodwill fix from BMW ; the RACP is too far gone to be repaired.

I think someone said it was more down to the torsional loads from cornering etc that damaged the floor more than accelerating etc, thus track cars were quite badly affected.

Even the SMG issues are not as bad as they once were to fix. The pumps are generally down to a worn motor, which is around £400 using the Buckhart kit and can be done in situ if you are cheeky and hands on, or £700 if done and fitted by I *think* CPC (I cannot remember their name) with a year's warranty on the pump. That said, I have been lucky so far.

But the other bits do scare me. Bottom ends, VANOS (down to a very loose clearance given by BMW, but the Beisan system does get around this and with improvements everywhere), head gaskets and of course the boot floor.

For that reason I have occasionally considered selling up and buying an E92 M3 but they have their issues too (big end bearings) and even the 335is have their issues (injectors and high pressure fuel pumps). I guess no car is perfect. You could end up rebuilding any car from the horror stories.

I'm planning on doing mine before I hit the 'ring. Best to be safe than sorry methinks smile.


Edited by SebringMan on Wednesday 22 February 20:01


Edited by SebringMan on Wednesday 22 February 20:02

SBN

1,025 posts

151 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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Look at my memory lane post...

But seriously I owned a 335i e90 and sold it 6months later because I should have got the m3 which I did get and loved it. Now the reason I say read my memory lane post is because I have been borrowing a e46 325i manual for a few days and after a e90 330i 335i e90, m3 e90, 335i f31 I'm actually slightly falling in love with the e46... a manual m3 e46 will feel uber special don't bother with the smg just enjoy that manual gear box !

E46 m3 manual...

shotta287

Original Poster:

852 posts

93 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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FUBMW said:
I have a E92 335i Auto. I've had it for just over a year and I love it.

On a long rung I get around 30 MPG and around town 21-22. The auto box is very smooth and complements the engine beautifully, although not as well as a DCT might, I suspect.

It's never going to be as fun to drive as the E46 M3, but it is expremely comfortable and the engine is great and unstressed, but sings when you're on it. Foot to the floor in 3rd gear from any revs is always a suprise. Comfort is good too, as well as refinement. Having a conversation at Autobahn speeds is easily done and is a beautiful cruiser when you need it to be.

Mine is a low mileage late 2008 model. Under 50000 miles it still needed two new turbos which BMW did under AUC warranty. Not sure how bad the issue really is, but I think worth it to have it done or have 2-3K aside for when it does need it.

Mine was up for sale recently, but being January no-one offered me anywhere close to what I wanted. But keeping it is no bad thing as it is so so easy to live with.
Was yours the black 58 reg mint ~38k or so coupe on Autotrader a few months back?

shotta287

Original Poster:

852 posts

93 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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Some really good advice and comments thanks all. I'm leaning towards the M3 but it seems to be so hard to find a good condition one under 100k miles nowadays. I've also noticed prices are on the rise..

FUBMW

39 posts

138 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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shotta287 said:
Was yours the black 58 reg mint ~38k or so coupe on Autotrader a few months back?
Afraid not. Mine's on 57K.