Discussion
_VTEC_ said:
The one thing I disliked about the CSL was the mandatory SMG. Now the only things the CS lacks are the sportier seats and the Carbon intake. Both of which you can buy similar of at the aftermarket.
You're welcome to try buying the upgrade parts on the aftermarket, but you'll not have much luck. You can't buy CSL parts from BMW without a valid CSL chassis number. That little 'ol carbon airbox, that people probably imagine is just like any other CAI is actually around 1 metre in length and costs a cool £3000-4000, that's without taking into account all the changes to the intake throttle and fueling. Then of course the carbon roof would cost over £1000 for parts alone. When you start adding up all the changes made from the M3 to CSL it's pretty easy to see where BMW came up with the £58k asking price. Maybe they should have been less ambitious with their engineering ambition, but I've yet to find anything superfulous to driving enjoyment in 2.5 years of owning one.
What stands out in the CSL compared to the M3 is how much lighter it feels and how much less interia comes into play when changing direction, then there's the additional violence when accelerating. It's a lot of fun even navigating a roundabout (again and again!) and doesn't need a track to make you smile. The CSL would still be 100-140kg lighter than an M3 CS (depending on options) and that counts as a lot in my book, but I'm sure the CS is still a fun car to drive.
Sadly i've only driven the M3 and M3 CSL in GT4, but if that game only tells half the truth, the CSL is better, possibly making it the best handling car in the game. The only real competition is the NSX type-R, which lacks a bit power... Anyway, I can only talk based upon my experiences in the game, but if i won the lottery tomorrow, the M3 in any form, would be pretty high on my wishlist...
I didn't really clarify what I meant. I attempted to posit that all I would miss from the CSL are the seats and the intake. And by saying aftermarket I didn't mean from BMW themselves nor did I mean BMW parts, just that similar items are available on the aftermarket. Mind you, you'd lose the warranty.
I understand what you mean, but as far as I know similar parts aren't available on the aftermarket. Companies might claim they've got something similar but I've yet to find a modified M3 that's anything like as focused as the CSL.
Anyway coming from the perspective of what makes most difference in the CSL (i.e. what differentiates it most over the M3) none of that is on the CS. The quicker ratio steering rack is probably the least noticeable change and not something I would choose to shout about, particularly when compared to some of the Porsche racks.
If I was just looking for an M3 (for daily use) then I'd get a CS because the quicker rack and M-track DSC mode would make it a better drivers tool, and there's no downside over the M3 apart from the alcantara wheel and the loss of mult-function steering controls (all of which could be changed by dipping into BMW's parts list).
Anyway coming from the perspective of what makes most difference in the CSL (i.e. what differentiates it most over the M3) none of that is on the CS. The quicker ratio steering rack is probably the least noticeable change and not something I would choose to shout about, particularly when compared to some of the Porsche racks.
If I was just looking for an M3 (for daily use) then I'd get a CS because the quicker rack and M-track DSC mode would make it a better drivers tool, and there's no downside over the M3 apart from the alcantara wheel and the loss of mult-function steering controls (all of which could be changed by dipping into BMW's parts list).
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As Nathan said, I have experience of both, being a CSL owner and haviong spent two days driving a CS around the Nordschleife. The CS feels like a slightly sharper normal M3. The CSL is completely different. The reduced weight and increased power makes it feel instantly quicker out of every corner. The grip of the tyres is astonshing. The lowered centre of gravity make the car feel much better balanced. And then there's the sound.... 
Thought you guys might like the clip of this CSL been driven ahem hard in the streets of Athens-sounds looovley.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-25339985902
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-25339985902
Thanks Dino, that's very interesting. I can't condone such driving through the streets, it's stupid, although it does show how easy the M3 chassis can be to drive.
Most interesting thing to notice is that it's not a CSL. First thing I noticed was that it wasn't fast enough (not pulling through the gears as quick as a CSL would), then you'll notice that it doesn't have an alcantara steering wheel, nor does it have the correct interior trim. Then when you finally catch glimpses from the outside you can see the lack of a CSL front valance or CSL bootlid. Clearly someone has gone to all the trouble (and expense) of fitting the CSL's carbon fibre airbox, without seeming to do much more. It also looks a little soft with more roll than you'd find in a CSL. My CSL certainly sounds much louder and more guttaral than that, but then I've got race cats fitted.
Interesting though.
Most interesting thing to notice is that it's not a CSL. First thing I noticed was that it wasn't fast enough (not pulling through the gears as quick as a CSL would), then you'll notice that it doesn't have an alcantara steering wheel, nor does it have the correct interior trim. Then when you finally catch glimpses from the outside you can see the lack of a CSL front valance or CSL bootlid. Clearly someone has gone to all the trouble (and expense) of fitting the CSL's carbon fibre airbox, without seeming to do much more. It also looks a little soft with more roll than you'd find in a CSL. My CSL certainly sounds much louder and more guttaral than that, but then I've got race cats fitted.
Interesting though.
Enlightening....and I thought it was CSL just because of the SMG and the rorty sound. Didn't realise SMG was available on the normal models....
That driving is pretty crazy, especially if you see the state of the roads in Athens. Suprised he didn't lose a wheel on a pothole or raised manhole cover
That driving is pretty crazy, especially if you see the state of the roads in Athens. Suprised he didn't lose a wheel on a pothole or raised manhole cover
Good Nurburgring vid here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-58097179004 of a CSL being given the beens by a pretty decent driver.
I have to say, the CSLs do sound fantastic - saw one at Harewood Hillclimb a year or two ago and it was definitely one of the finest sounding cars there. Was really surprised at how loud it was.
On the CS, I haven't driven one but everything I've read has been good, and it comes with a proper gearbox!! Think I will keep an eye out for a second hand one in a couple of years. Would make a phenomenal daily driver and spot on for my purposes... just wish they'd made a saloon....
On the CS, I haven't driven one but everything I've read has been good, and it comes with a proper gearbox!! Think I will keep an eye out for a second hand one in a couple of years. Would make a phenomenal daily driver and spot on for my purposes... just wish they'd made a saloon....
DoctorD said:
I need to post up that video of Angus' CSL driving around the industrial estate near HTR. It's the best illustration of how the best CSLs sound. If anyone can find it first then please post it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-59202363718
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