RE: Exclusive: BMW M3 spy-shots
Discussion
Zod said:
klassiekerrally said:
jon- said:
Not sure why, i just can't get excited by new uber saloons anymore, they're 5 a penny.
Exactly my thoughts. Where are the times that only supercars like the Countach had 400 bhp?
They've undoubtedly done an excellent engineering job, but have to keep it safe with three-letter electronical aids.
What's the point?
I'd call myself a purist, not a macho. If one can't control 400 or 500 bhp, one shouldn't buy such a powerful car. Relying on electronical helpers to control a car that is too powerful for ones skills just doesn't seem to be logical to me.
Zod said:
If you knew anything at all about these cars, particulalry if you had driven one, you would understand that the electronic aids are not needed to keep them safe.
Please explain me why else they are used then...???
And you're right, I haven't driven M Beemers, but I know they are well engineered.
Zod said:
The car handles beautifully without them. Like any car with 400 or 500 bhp though, if you provoke it, it will bite you.
And that's completely ok with me.
Oh, and this is not a rant against BMW, not at all. They are beautifully engineered cars.
It's just that I regret that I can't get excited about 400 bhp figures anymore. One gets bombarded with such figures nowadays, so they are getting pretty meaningless.
klassiekerrally said:
Zod said:
klassiekerrally said:
jon- said:
Not sure why, i just can't get excited by new uber saloons anymore, they're 5 a penny.
Exactly my thoughts. Where are the times that only supercars like the Countach had 400 bhp?
They've undoubtedly done an excellent engineering job, but have to keep it safe with three-letter electronical aids.
What's the point?
I'd call myself a purist, not a macho. If one can't control 400 or 500 bhp, one shouldn't buy such a powerful car. Relying on electronical helpers to control a car that is too powerful for ones skills just doesn't seem to be logical to me.
I have that view point too.
Why buy a car that has more power than you can handle, and ultimately, at least in the old days, had flawed capabilities for day to day use because of it.
All we end up with today is the purer cars being watered down to appeal to wider markets. Most likely buying the M5 or M3 for the badge and because it "costs the most" rather than because they want the M5/3 for driving or whatever. (of course thats not ALL, but a good majority I would say)
TVR on the other hand, no ABS or TCS or EBD or anything, just pure driving pleasure!
It worries me even more when modern hot hatches come with ESP and all that too. WHY? To get a shopping car with 200bhp FWD out of shape you'd have to be a complete dumbass, yet it's still fitted, because they know complete dumbasses will buy these cars in an attempt to look cool!
Not realising that they are buying watered down attempts at sports cars, ruining it for themselves because they have no clue, and ruining it for enthusiasts who now have to turn to ever more scarce specialists. Half the point of owning a sports car in my eyes is to challenge you day to day, not bore you by requiring no input!
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
klassiekerrally said:
Zod said:
klassiekerrally said:
jon- said:
Not sure why, i just can't get excited by new uber saloons anymore, they're 5 a penny.
Exactly my thoughts. Where are the times that only supercars like the Countach had 400 bhp?
They've undoubtedly done an excellent engineering job, but have to keep it safe with three-letter electronical aids.
What's the point?
I'd call myself a purist, not a macho. If one can't control 400 or 500 bhp, one shouldn't buy such a powerful car. Relying on electronical helpers to control a car that is too powerful for ones skills just doesn't seem to be logical to me.
I have that view point too.
Why buy a car that has more power than you can handle, and ultimately, at least in the old days, had flawed capabilities for day to day use because of it.
All we end up with today is the purer cars being watered down to appeal to wider markets. Most likely buying the M5 or M3 for the badge and because it "costs the most" rather than because they want the M5/3 for driving or whatever. (of course thats not ALL, but a good majority I would say)
TVR on the other hand, no ABS or TCS or EBD or anything, just pure driving pleasure!
It worries me even more when modern hot hatches come with ESP and all that too. WHY? To get a shopping car with 200bhp FWD out of shape you'd have to be a complete dumbass, yet it's still fitted, because they know complete dumbasses will buy these cars in an attempt to look cool!
Not realising that they are buying watered down attempts at sports cars, ruining it for themselves because they have no clue, and ruining it for enthusiasts who now have to turn to ever more scarce specialists. Half the point of owning a sports car in my eyes is to challenge you day to day, not bore you by requiring no input!
Dave
porker_nut said:
Just another reasonably priced high performance mass produced BMW - its dull as ditchwater and the chav's preferred choice for style and exclusivity, of which it is neither of.
I don't believe it: another one. 
Offensive and ignorant. Great combination.
A total of 42 posts and your recent post history appears to consist mostly of trolling threads about new BMWs. Otherwise, most of your posts seem to consist of telling people about your fleet of Porsches and appalling grammar, with a particular problem in the use of apostrophes - although you did get it right with the possessive use in "chav's" (not "it's" though) in this latest drivel post.
People like you add nothing to this site.
Edited by Zod on Sunday 27th August 16:51
Zod said:
m12_nathan said:
AMG Merc said:
negative creep said:
Thats what puts meoff buying a real M3, everyone will think its a fake.
Go for the csl then - the chavs can't fake the carbon roof!
I'm sure they make a carbon patterned sticky film
They already have, some sad soul was seen sporting it on an M3 parked at the Nurburgring. Sad isn't it.
Mr Whippy said:
All we end up with today is the purer cars being watered down to appeal to wider markets. Most likely buying the M5 or M3 for the badge and because it "costs the most" rather than because they want the M5/3 for driving or whatever. (of course thats not ALL, but a good majority I would say)
TVR on the other hand, no ABS or TCS or EBD or anything, just pure driving pleasure!
TVR on the other hand, no ABS or TCS or EBD or anything, just pure driving pleasure!
As a reasonably experienced racer and someone who has no reason to be shy of a 400/500bhp RWD car, I can perfectly understand the use of DSC/TC systems in powerful cars. In the dry I would prefer them all turned off, in the wet TC can be a godsend if you're tired and not in the mood for lairy action and if you happen to be driving during winter conditions....all I can say is "how much of a hero do you think you are?".
Modern technology has allowed ever greater access to powerful cars and perhaps there is an ethical issue in allowed drivers access to such quick cars that they might be so far away from mastering, but mostly I consider it a good thing. In future I suspect we will have more programmable DSC/ESP systems that can be tailored for a driver and the conditions (rather like Ferraris Manetto system) and if you've ever experienced such a system then it's hard to argue against them for a road car.
Zod said:
ED965 said:
Zod said:
ED965 said:
Anyway foR the price of the Genamic rep car on steroids you can get a good second hand 996TT....
33 posts and the best you can do is troll the BMW forum.
Why do all these new M car threads attract the shit-throwing monkey crowd, I wonder? It must have something to do with evolution.
Edited by Zod on Saturday 26th August 12:04
The reason only got 33 posts is due to kids.......I'm afraid
Better things to do with me life
I was trolling through the BM forum because i fancied a laugh at "the club" and what you call "evolution" god help us!
Interesting comment about the M5 though
great car from an engineering point of view...but 
You're not wrong there!ED965 said:
Zod said:
ED965 said:
Zod said:
ED965 said:
Anyway foR the price of the Genamic rep car on steroids you can get a good second hand 996TT....
33 posts and the best you can do is troll the BMW forum.
Why do all these new M car threads attract the shit-throwing monkey crowd, I wonder? It must have something to do with evolution.
Edited by Zod on Saturday 26th August 12:04
The reason only got 33 posts is due to kids.......I'm afraid
Better things to do with me life
I was trolling through the BM forum because i fancied a laugh at "the club" and what you call "evolution" god help us!
Interesting comment about the M5 though
great car from an engineering point of view...but You're not wrong there!<Quote>Obviously not driven one then
My e39 M5 has the legs on the 355 and is chuckable in a way such a big car has no right to be. If i'd tried to chuck my old Chim around in the same manner i'd be a grade 9 on the harp by now.</quote>
Dont get me wrong, it is VERY fast (brother owns one, and we did 69.99999MPH in places i never thought possible!).
BUT, it is big and heavy, and while it is {dynamically} a very clever car, DSC, ASC+T etc, you cant break the laws of physics (Jim). Plus on my bro's car, the brakes used to fade like a b**tard.
I just didnt get that seat of the pants feeling. I just felt too mollycoddled sitting in it... Like I say, not a sportscar, but a damn fine (safe?) way of getting from A to B.
Hope this is more clear...
Ed.
My e39 M5 has the legs on the 355 and is chuckable in a way such a big car has no right to be. If i'd tried to chuck my old Chim around in the same manner i'd be a grade 9 on the harp by now.</quote>
Dont get me wrong, it is VERY fast (brother owns one, and we did 69.99999MPH in places i never thought possible!).
BUT, it is big and heavy, and while it is {dynamically} a very clever car, DSC, ASC+T etc, you cant break the laws of physics (Jim). Plus on my bro's car, the brakes used to fade like a b**tard.
I just didnt get that seat of the pants feeling. I just felt too mollycoddled sitting in it... Like I say, not a sportscar, but a damn fine (safe?) way of getting from A to B.
Hope this is more clear...
Ed.
ed_crouch said:
I just didnt get that seat of the pants feeling. I just felt too mollycoddled sitting in it... Like I say, not a sportscar, but a damn fine (safe?) way of getting from A to B.
Hope this is more clear...
Ed.
Hope this is more clear...
Ed.
Blimey, are we really debating if the M5 is a sportscar or not? Of course it isn't, but it has been (E39) and still is (E60) the finest sports saloon in the world. A car that mixes the best qualities of a luxury saloon with the giant-killing pace of a more focused set of wheels.
But it would be naive to compare the 'seat of pants' feel of an M5 with a TVR and conclude that all BMW ///M cars are the same. If so then there are people reading this thread and shaking the heads at such a statement...
Back to the subject at hand, BMW have put their necks on the block by stating that future M models would be distinguished by their use of lightweight technologies (as in the CSL), so if the new M3 is 'heavy' as implied in an earlier post then the Germans will definitely end up with umlaut on der faces..
Why doesnt everyone just calm down...
The new M3 will, like the new m5, not look as good as the old one but will drive like a dream as all m3 have. I'm just glad i own a CSL! After this tubby bas**rd comes out it'll shoot up in price just like it should!
Looks the bollox
Goes like sh*t off a shovel and is sure to be a future classic
All you'd ever want in my eyes...
The new M3 will, like the new m5, not look as good as the old one but will drive like a dream as all m3 have. I'm just glad i own a CSL
! After this tubby bas**rd comes out it'll shoot up in price just like it should! Looks the bollox
Goes like sh*t off a shovel and is sure to be a future classic
All you'd ever want in my eyes...
Have to say no doubt it will be brilliantly made, out handle most cars and be like sh1te of a shovel but it just doesn't do it for me.
The current and previous 3 series are far too common for my liking and that includes the current M3, not knocking it as a car but I would just prefer something a bit less main stream. I'm well aware there is a good reason why there are so many of them as they are fine cars but I would still rather have an RS4, this however is never having driven either so could quite possibly change if I were ever to!
The M cars are brilliant and having been in the previous M5 numerous times I can certainly see the appeal, BMW did drop a bll0ck with the new shape 3 series though IMHO, not pleasent to look at, while the new 5 series has really grown on me and I really like it now.
The current and previous 3 series are far too common for my liking and that includes the current M3, not knocking it as a car but I would just prefer something a bit less main stream. I'm well aware there is a good reason why there are so many of them as they are fine cars but I would still rather have an RS4, this however is never having driven either so could quite possibly change if I were ever to!
The M cars are brilliant and having been in the previous M5 numerous times I can certainly see the appeal, BMW did drop a bll0ck with the new shape 3 series though IMHO, not pleasent to look at, while the new 5 series has really grown on me and I really like it now.
We could all do with getting out and test driving a few of these cars, rather than relying on past bias. Likewise popping along to a few track days and befriending an owner who can show you what the cars are 'really' like. I realise it can seem a little boing but there's a reason why M cars or Porsches tend to win most group test comparisions. The conspiracy theorists though will continue to convince themselves that it's all PR engineering.
The E46 M3 CSL is probably the best drivers BMW yet made, but I look forward to seeing what BMW can achieve with the E92 version. I am very curious to see if BMW will make this new M3 more hardcore than before given the capabilities of the new 335i. It will certainly need to be considerably faster than the E46 since the 335i is already as quick as the E46 M3, so I would guess that the E92 M3 would need to be a mid-9 second 0-100mph car.
The E46 M3 CSL is probably the best drivers BMW yet made, but I look forward to seeing what BMW can achieve with the E92 version. I am very curious to see if BMW will make this new M3 more hardcore than before given the capabilities of the new 335i. It will certainly need to be considerably faster than the E46 since the 335i is already as quick as the E46 M3, so I would guess that the E92 M3 would need to be a mid-9 second 0-100mph car.
I think an interesting question and one I suggest you would NEVER get a truly honest answer to, is how many of the critics of the brand or of the 'M' generation of cars have actually owned or driven them AT LENGTH to form their definitive opinions?
Most of the drivel posters, ie those with a history of jumping on the "BMW's driven by chav's, badge snobs or worse" seem to have a limited grasp of the English language, let alone any form of pragmatism and demonstrate an opinion that is mostly formed by other opinions, not their own. Who gives a flying F what someone thinks of them when they are in their car. I think that such a perspective says more about their own personal worth than anyone else’s. If 'street credibility is that important to you then you should buy something appropriate to the people with who you mix...
The M Cars have been hailed by most across the globe who have OWNED and DRIVEN THEM AT LENGTH as great cars. They have been slagged off (as has the brand) across the globe by many people who have done none of the former two. At what they do they are top of the tree, leader of a breed. To compare them with other cars who do elements better is to TOTALLY miss the point. Aesthetics are personal and I would never disagree with peoples perspectives on style, design, looks, each to their own, but the eejits who trot out the normal and predictable diatribe do nothing but demonstrate their own personal weakness IMHO of course.
Most of the drivel posters, ie those with a history of jumping on the "BMW's driven by chav's, badge snobs or worse" seem to have a limited grasp of the English language, let alone any form of pragmatism and demonstrate an opinion that is mostly formed by other opinions, not their own. Who gives a flying F what someone thinks of them when they are in their car. I think that such a perspective says more about their own personal worth than anyone else’s. If 'street credibility is that important to you then you should buy something appropriate to the people with who you mix...
The M Cars have been hailed by most across the globe who have OWNED and DRIVEN THEM AT LENGTH as great cars. They have been slagged off (as has the brand) across the globe by many people who have done none of the former two. At what they do they are top of the tree, leader of a breed. To compare them with other cars who do elements better is to TOTALLY miss the point. Aesthetics are personal and I would never disagree with peoples perspectives on style, design, looks, each to their own, but the eejits who trot out the normal and predictable diatribe do nothing but demonstrate their own personal weakness IMHO of course.
DoctorD said:
We could all do with getting out and test driving a few of these cars, rather than relying on past bias. Likewise popping along to a few track days and befriending an owner who can show you what the cars are 'really' like. I realise it can seem a little boing but there's a reason why M cars or Porsches tend to win most group test comparisions. The conspiracy theorists though will continue to convince themselves that it's all PR engineering.
The E46 M3 CSL is probably the best drivers BMW yet made, but I look forward to seeing what BMW can achieve with the E92 version. I am very curious to see if BMW will make this new M3 more hardcore than before given the capabilities of the new 335i. It will certainly need to be considerably faster than the E46 since the 335i is already as quick as the E46 M3, so I would guess that the E92 M3 would need to be a mid-9 second 0-100mph car.
The E46 M3 CSL is probably the best drivers BMW yet made, but I look forward to seeing what BMW can achieve with the E92 version. I am very curious to see if BMW will make this new M3 more hardcore than before given the capabilities of the new 335i. It will certainly need to be considerably faster than the E46 since the 335i is already as quick as the E46 M3, so I would guess that the E92 M3 would need to be a mid-9 second 0-100mph car.
Uncanny, we seem to be of a similar opinion.....and at the same time too!
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