335d tuning, what options..?

[Zead]

Quote
I have heard of tuning boxes too, but believe this is not a good way of tuning as it tricks the ecu and fuel pump into thinking its not got enough pressure thus leading to failure. Please correct me if im wrong.
end quote


mmm... interesting, I have Van Aaken box on my 330D, came with car, and have just spent a lot of time trying to rectify a fault that turned out to be pre-supply pump. Obviously these companies test their products but over 40K miles?

I was going to run a similar thread on "re-map" versus "tuning box" and what re-map would justify the expense, but I think I know where it will go.

Anyone else thoughts on boxes as it's not been explored here?

Edited by Zead on Friday 25th January 14:08

[Vixpy1]

DoctorD said:

What's the story behind 35d engine tuning? I've been running a parellel thread on this forum comparing 35i engines with the 35d, and one of my criteria is the tuneability of these engines.

The 35i engine has now reached the levels of improved driveability plus an extra 90bhp and 120 lb/ft (i.e. 400 bhp/420lb/ft - 580NM).

I've seen various dyno results for the 35d engine, most of which claim around 330-340bhp and between 630-780NM. Power wise there seems little variance between the various tuners, but torque claims are massively different.

So, why are the power claims so similar whilst the torque claims are the opposite? Anyone have any empirical evidence? I am aware of a torque limitation within the BMW autobox of 700NM, so not sure if some tuners are just deliberately holding torque back (to prolong reliability) whilst others are more gung-ho.

The way the current marketplace (for 35d tuners) looks at the moment, it seems that the best criteria of choice is the reliability/warranty angle (and price) rather than performance since they all seem much the same (albeit claiming very different torque outputs).

Anyone have any comparative experience of the various tuning routes?

Edited by DoctorD on Friday 25th January 13:46

Have done the 35d engine chipped by .. DMS, Emaps, Superchips, chippeduk and others.

All have done around 500ft/lbs and were around 330bhp. Apart from one, which was rubbish.

As for smoke boxes, they have their place, i know people who have run them for 50K without issue, however, it is the more brutal approach to diesel tuning.

[DoctorD]

Charlie, so you would recommend 'either' of the main reputable players?

Is there really so little difference between them? (in terms of both driveability and performance)

[Vixpy1]

DoctorD said:

Charlie, so you would recommend 'either' of the main reputable players?

Is there really so little difference between them? (in terms of both driveability and performance)

The main players maps are all very similair, no matter what they claim, almost all the maps are orig written by 2 or 3 companys abroad. I'd want someone to put the map on the car and then tweak it to that car, not just load a generic map.

Name and shame rules prevent me from saying which the rubbish one was. But you can always email me

[mogul]

Vixpy1 said:

Cyclone1 said:

Vixpy1 said:

Neil.D said:

Id go DMS without hesitation. Some of the lesser known tuners can be a bit mickey-mouse. Yes you pay more but you will get a professional service.

Spill the beans....or email me.

Jules.

Nothing, just think they are far too expensive.

They may be more expensive but my 535d was completely reprogrammed by the dealer last week and I spent two hours at DMS this morning having the 'engine' remap back to how it should be.

The software on my 535 was the latest from BMW (flat torque throughout each gear) but DMS already had a fix to go back to the original remap (and it really is that much more grunt than standard).

Rob spent two hours talking to me appearing not to be bored (thanks Rob!), fiddled with the car, made it work and charged me nothing because I'm an existing customer and 'back to remap' is FREE forever should the dealer overwrite it.

I don't think you can beat them for their friendly professional customer approach.

The guarantee is a also bit of comfort should something go wrong...

[DoctorD]

Mogul, how does that work in practice if like me you are a few hundred miles away from DMS?

[dannylt]

mogul said:

They may be more expensive but my 535d was completely reprogrammed by the dealer last week and I spent two hours at DMS this morning having the 'engine' remap back to how it should be.

The software on my 535 was the latest from BMW (flat torque throughout each gear) but DMS already had a fix to go back to the original remap (and it really is that much more grunt than standard).

Rob spent two hours talking to me appearing not to be bored (thanks Rob!), fiddled with the car, made it work and charged me nothing because I'm an existing customer and 'back to remap' is FREE forever should the dealer overwrite it.
.

PH rocks; I was just about to ask. BMW have just completely reprogrammed my 535d to fix a fault causing a battery drain, so I'm expected it to feel slow again. Glad I can just pop round to have it put on again! Problem is, after a few years you get too used to the performance, so maybe a few weeks on the OEM map will let me appreciate it properly again

[mogul]

DoctorD said:

Mogul, how does that work in practice if like me you are a few hundred miles away from DMS?

I'm not sure is the honest answer!

I live about 70 miles from them and don't mind travelling, but I'm sure I remember reading somewhere about mobile DMS reps on the road (could that have been franchise?) If you call them and speak to Rob, you'll not only speak to someone who is incredibly knowledgeable but will also be helpful.

I'm still really surprised just how good the re-map is. Having got back into the car the other day after BMW had overwritten the software the 535d immediately felt noticeably slow (still quick, but slow!) Leaving DMS yesterday, it's as if there's a different engine under the bonnet.

[taffyracer]

Personally i'm with Vixpy on this, DMS are more expensive for a reason, they have full back up/aftersales, they have been around the block a few times and know what they are doing and have many many happy customers, I always fail to understand why someone spends 30k+ on a car then wants the cheapest remap they can get, cheap is cheap for a reason, DMS or one of the other main players should only be considered IMHO

[phelix]

In researching my (still standard) 535d's problem I stumbled across a posting on a German forum from a chap who has had to replace his turbos (described as cracked) and exhaust manifold (described as twisted). The poster said he didn't reinstall the revised map after getting the car back!

Symptoms were that the car would misfire between 100 and 120 mph.

All this makes me wonder if tuning this engine is fine for general UK driving because the thermal loads aren't that high but sustained high speed running will go past the design margain BMW built into the engine?

Answers on a postcard!

[taffyracer]

It is fine if you go to someone that understands these issues, hence my post above, there are so many mappers jumping on the band wagon, i personally wouldn't touch anyone with my car unless they had been doing it years, have a decent RR, have a decent set up (shows where the money goes) and can show a line of very happy customers, simply too easy to do and too easy to cock it up

[dxb335d]

Who can tweak a generic map after ''re-mapping'' and at what cost!

Im sure a decent map will be fine running to 160mph daily. Well I would hope so. No point having a map leaning off top end. That would be a rubbish map. Surely guys over in germany will need a decent map as there Autobahns in places are unlimited.

Edited by dxb335d on Saturday 26th January 17:38

[pgilc1]

FesterNath said:

Why not just buy a faster car to begin with, instead of worrying what might or might not happen as a result of tuning?

Can you find us a five seater car that will do 0-60 in less than 5 secs, and with a top speed greater than 170mph, and can better 40mpg on long runs. Oh and costs no more than say, £35K new?

[pgilc1]

Zead said:

Quote
I have heard of tuning boxes too, but believe this is not a good way of tuning as it tricks the ecu and fuel pump into thinking its not got enough pressure thus leading to failure. Please correct me if im wrong.
end quote


mmm... interesting, I have Van Aaken box on my 330D, came with car, and have just spent a lot of time trying to rectify a fault that turned out to be pre-supply pump. Obviously these companies test their products but over 40K miles?

I was going to run a similar thread on "re-map" versus "tuning box" and what re-map would justify the expense, but I think I know where it will go.

Anyone else thoughts on boxes as it's not been explored here?

Edited by Zead on Friday 25th January 14:08

I've used www.tuningbox.com for tuning boxes for VW Passat, Alfa 147 JTD, 320d saloon, 320d coupe, 318d saloon, and now on an e70 x5. I've always found very decent power and torque gains, and improved economy. A tuning box can be easily removed for servicing / warranty work too. In my opinion they do work and they work well. They can also be moved easily from car to car - one of my boxes was on three different cars.

Yes, the remap will be more optimised, yes it will slightly more BHP, but £350 for a 5 min bolt on 50BHP mod? Has to be bargain of the century....

[edb49]

If you're considering going for one of the cheaper one man band tuners, wouldn't it just be simpler to get a cable and some software and DIY?

E.G. A quick look on fleabay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

Install software on laptop, plug cable in, run software. £50 and you can re-do it anytime if the dealership overwrites it. Likewise I assume you can take it off before car goes in for servicing if you're worried about that kind of thing.

[davidd]

edb49 said:

If you're considering going for one of the cheaper one man band tuners, wouldn't it just be simpler to get a cable and some software and DIY?

E.G. A quick look on fleabay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

Install software on laptop, plug cable in, run software. £50 and you can re-do it anytime if the dealership overwrites it. Likewise I assume you can take it off before car goes in for servicing if you're worried about that kind of thing.

Apart from the fact that has no bmw fitment

I agree that in principle that is not a bad idea, however how would I know where to start with one? I could plug it in, read the ecu, then what, just start tweaking?

Someone has to develop the maps, thats where the cash goes, thats why they cost what they do (well that and a bit of profiteering).

It would however be interesting to read a standard map and then one from each of the tuners so we could see the exact differences, then we'd know what we were getting and if they are in fact any different.

D

[FesterNath]

pgilc1 said:

FesterNath said:

Why not just buy a faster car to begin with, instead of worrying what might or might not happen as a result of tuning?

Can you find us a five seater car that will do 0-60 in less than 5 secs, and with a top speed greater than 170mph, and can better 40mpg on long runs. Oh and costs no more than say, £35K new?

Fair point. Are you still going to return such good economy with those performace figures? The way to increase power on a diesel is to increase fuel supply.

[edb49]

Oops, didn't realise that one didn't support BMWs. I'm sure 5 mins on eBay could find you one, and also you could buy a CD full of "here's one I made earlier" maps for all sorts of cars. Then charge people £200 a pop to upload them!

I am not quite sure if this is what the one man bands do, be interesting for someone who has had their car mapped to say what their experience was.

[edb49]

FesterNath said:

pgilc1 said:

FesterNath said:

Why not just buy a faster car to begin with, instead of worrying what might or might not happen as a result of tuning?

Can you find us a five seater car that will do 0-60 in less than 5 secs, and with a top speed greater than 170mph, and can better 40mpg on long runs. Oh and costs no more than say, £35K new?

Fair point. Are you still going to return such good economy with those performace figures? The way to increase power on a diesel is to increase fuel supply.

Obviously when you're using the full 340bhp you will use more fuel than when using the 280bhp, but you will reach your target speed more quickly. I would have thought that on a motorway run and at part thorttle, there's no reason for the fuel consumption to be worse. E.G. If you are applying throttle to deliver 100bhp in a standard or tuned car.

[phelix]

Can anyone explain how a diesel is tuned? On a turbo-charged petrol car you can play with the timing and the mixture and the boost. But you need to ensure you don't advance the timing so far as to get detonation, monitor the air fuel ratio to ensure it's not too lean or too rich and also keep the boost under control to not cause detonation, raise the intake air temp too high and/or overspeed the turbos. What's done on a turbodiesel car and what are the limiting factors?