Show Me Your BMW!!!!!!!!!
Discussion
RoverP6B said:
Jem0911 said:
Why what was up?
More a case of what WASN'T wrong with it.- Bone-shatteringly hard ride, felt like there actually was no suspension at all. I haven't been that uncomfortable since I got a ride in an old 1950s Morgan.
- Dreadful electric steering. Imprecise, completely and utterly devoid of any feel or self-centering action. Made it very difficult to place the car on the road with any confidence.
- Bloody awful engine - below about 2000rpm, nothing happened, and it had turbo lag as bad as the Saab 900 I tested 20 years ago - all done by about 4000rpm, above which it just sounded increasingly strained without actually making the car go any faster. Extremely noisy and clattery too.
- Dim-witted 8-speed autobox. Hunted around all the time like nobody's business, slurred every change, most of the time I had no idea what gear I was in, and even in the sequential manual mode (which was hard to activate as most of the time the electronic gear selector refused to be pushed sideways) it still automatically upchanged earlier than I wanted and downchanged when I wanted to hold a gear. Each change caused the engine to come off-boost (which was then followed by the aforementioned lag). The result was infuriatingly jerky progress - it was impossible to drive smoothly.
- Infuriating electronic handbrake (I want a ratchet lever!). When this was engaged, the slightest touch on the throttle caused an ear-splittingly loud alarm to sound - this would happen if I even so much as THOUGHT about the throttle while sat at traffic lights. Riding the throttle with the car in neutral to counteract the lag so one could make a quick getaway from the junction was simply not possible. No handbrake turns in the snow either!
- Shocking visibility. I've had a better field of vision sat in a WW2 pillbox. There should be a law against rising beltlines.
- Really shoddy interior constructed of the cheapest materials - the seats trimmed with the same sort of cheap plastic pseudo-leather that you get on a £20 office chair from "name your office supplies chain". Lots of squeaks and rattles.
- Extremely poor packaging. Despite the F11 being several inches wider and a foot longer than the E39, it offers no more leg-room and the boot is noticeably smaller (specifically, the boot floor is much higher and narrower). For instance, my E39 has shifted furniture, appliances and my touring bike. I tried various of these in the F11 and found that either they would not fit at all (my bike, some furniture) or that the seats in the F11 had to be folded to carry the load longitudinally, reducing the car to a 2-seat van, where the E39 had still been a 5-seater with the same load carried transversely in the boot (tumble dryer).
- ****ING I-DRIVE! The number of times I felt like putting a hammer through that glass screen... all I want is a simple radio/CD player! I don't want satnav (if I really needed it, there are any number of phone apps out there which I could use), I don't want everything to be buried in myriad sub-menus... I seem to recall the traction and stability control were buried deep in a sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-menu and that attempting to deactivate them resulted in an error message.
I will say two things - and only two - in its favour. One was that it had by far the most effective windscreen washer jets I have ever encountered - I'd like those on my E39! The other was that the fuel economy really was quite impressive for such a big, heavy car. However, I'd save my thirty grand and spend a tiny chunk of it on buying a nice E39, bringing it up to standard, and paying bigger fuel bills. It'd be worth it just to avoid that s
tty engine and handling greasy oily diesel pumps at petrol stations.
Urban Sports said:
What a whole boat load of tripe
Yup, sorry Rover but I disagree with a lot of what you're saying.Bone hard ride? the F10 I went in was quite good actually. What are you comparing it to....an E39? Seemed every bit as good as an E39 to me.
No power below 2k rpm? It develops peak torque from below 2k rpm which doesn't figure with what you're saying?
dim-witted gearbox? you're the ONLY person I've heard say that. Having been in a couple of cars (and driven 1) car with it in, it's fantastic!
Electronic handbrake? Got one in my E65 and it's absolutely fine, no problems whatsoever.
Idrive? If you can't understand how to use the latest idrive then you can't read. It's ridiculously easy!!!!!
You're talking out of your arse, it would appear. Most of the comments you raise are the first time I've heard of any of those.
Urban Sports said:
What a whole boat load of tripe
Absolutly agree. I have the engine and 8 speed auto in my 120d M sport. Its the best diesel auto I have ever driven. Used to be in the motor trade so have driven a fair few.
184 bhp engine with loads of torque combined with a very smooth 8 speed auto,almost as good as DSG/PDK twin clutch boxes, means making good progress is very easy with no drama.
As for i drive, very easy to use. I suppose you still have an Amstrad 64 or something, and a wireless set in your lounge with valves in it do you RoverP6B?
Edited by oldnbold on Monday 28th April 19:50
oldnbold said:
Urban Sports said:
What a whole boat load of tripe
Absolutly agree. I have the engine and 8 speed auto in my 120d M sport. Its the best diesel auto I have ever driven. Used to be in the motor trade so have driven a fair few.
184 bhp engine with loads of torque combined with a very smooth 8 speed auto,almost as good as DSG/PDK twin clutch boxes, means making good progress is very easy with no drama.
As for i drive, very easy to use. I suppose you still have an Amstrad 64 or something do you, and a wireless set in your lounge with valves in it do you RoverP6B?
The bloke has no credibility and constantly talks out of his arse, I thought I recognised his user name and remembered taking him to task a while ago over the same drivel, does he not know that on a BMW specific thread / forum other people will have more experience of the cars he says are so dreadful.
Belm.
Urban Sports said:
Look at his other posts, he's an fantasist, his e39 is so good it's falling apart, every new BMW he slates and says the older ones are better, rinse repeat rinse repeat.
The bloke has no credibility and constantly talks out of his arse, I thought I recognised his user name and remembered taking him to task a while ago over the same drivel, does he not know that on a BMW specific thread / forum other people will have more experience of the cars he says are so dreadful.
Belm.
Thought I could hear a bullsh*t alarm going off.The bloke has no credibility and constantly talks out of his arse, I thought I recognised his user name and remembered taking him to task a while ago over the same drivel, does he not know that on a BMW specific thread / forum other people will have more experience of the cars he says are so dreadful.
Belm.
Better to stay quiet and have people think you are stupid, than open your mouth and prove it to them!
RoverP6B said:
More a case of what WASN'T wrong with it..
... massive rant...
This seems like a massive exaggeration to me. I am an enormous E39 fan and I now often drive an F11 520d. It's not mine, so I've no bias towards it or purchase justification going on.... massive rant...
The engine and gearbox combination is the least annoying 2 litre diesel powerplant I have ever experienced. The gearbox is absolutely wonderful and does a fantastic job of making almost all of the annoying parts of the 2 litre engine go away - it's almost always in the right gear exactly when you want it to be and does a great deal to eliminate the dead zone below 2000rpm. You are right on that count - it is breathless below 2000rpm but the box goes a very, very long way to countering this.
The ride quality is not terrible at all. It isn't as good you would expect - on 17s with SE suspension it doesn't quite ride as well as my E39 on 18's and M Sport suspension but I am convinced this is 95% the awful runflat tyres BMW insist on fitting to them. It is, however, absolutely nothing like as bad as previous generation BMW's with runflats on.
Build quality? It's the best built BMW since the E39, IMHO. Sadly this doesn't mean its as good as an E39, annoyingly it isn't, there is the odd rattle and the doorcards creak if you push them, but every surface you touch feels of high quality and everything you interact with is solid and pleasing. Nothing at all wrong with the leather. It is a shame it isn't built as well as the E39 and it is annoying that modern cars don't feel as 'well built' as a 13 year old car but lets just pause for a second...
In 2001, a 230bhp petrol 5 Series Sport with Navigation, leather and Xenons would have cost you £38k. Adjusted for inflation, that would be £54,000 in todays money. Today, Broadspeed will supply you with a 245bhp petrol 5 Series M Sport with Navigation, leather and Xenons - and much more as well - for £38k.
The reason the F10 doesn't feel quite as expensive and well made as the E39 is because... it's massively cheaper!
Next... iDrive. Sorry, but the iDrive system fitted to the F10/F11 is exceptional, IMHO. A standout feature, it's easy to use, it's pleasing to look at, its full of features.
The E39 5 Series is IMHO the best 5 Series ever made and probably always will be. Nothing else will be quite as obviously better than everything else in its class as the E39 was. Even today it's great to drive, brilliantly built and doesn't feel like a 15 year old car. But it is a 15 year old car and for those who want to move a bit more up to date, the F10 is IMHO as close as you will get in any modern car.
Fox- said:
This seems like a massive exaggeration to me. I am an enormous E39 fan and I now often drive an F11 520d. It's not mine, so I've no bias towards it or purchase justification going on.
The engine and gearbox combination is the least annoying 2 litre diesel powerplant I have ever experienced. The gearbox is absolutely wonderful and does a fantastic job of making almost all of the annoying parts of the 2 litre engine go away - it's almost always in the right gear exactly when you want it to be and does a great deal to eliminate the dead zone below 2000rpm. You are right on that count - it is breathless below 2000rpm but the box goes a very, very long way to countering this.
The ride quality is not terrible at all. It isn't as good you would expect - on 17s with SE suspension it doesn't quite ride as well as my E39 on 18's and M Sport suspension but I am convinced this is 95% the awful runflat tyres BMW insist on fitting to them. It is, however, absolutely nothing like as bad as previous generation BMW's with runflats on.
Build quality? It's the best built BMW since the E39, IMHO. Sadly this doesn't mean its as good as an E39, annoyingly it isn't, there is the odd rattle and the doorcards creak if you push them, but every surface you touch feels of high quality and everything you interact with is solid and pleasing. Nothing at all wrong with the leather. It is a shame it isn't built as well as the E39 and it is annoying that modern cars don't feel as 'well built' as a 13 year old car but lets just pause for a second...
In 2001, a 230bhp petrol 5 Series Sport with Navigation, leather and Xenons would have cost you £38k. Adjusted for inflation, that would be £54,000 in todays money. Today, Broadspeed will supply you with a 245bhp petrol 5 Series M Sport with Navigation, leather and Xenons - and much more as well - for £38k.
The reason the F10 doesn't feel quite as expensive and well made as the E39 is because... it's massively cheaper!
Next... iDrive. Sorry, but the iDrive system fitted to the F10/F11 is exceptional, IMHO. A standout feature, it's easy to use, it's pleasing to look at, its full of features.
The E39 5 Series is IMHO the best 5 Series ever made and probably always will be. Nothing else will be quite as obviously better than everything else in its class as the E39 was. Even today it's great to drive, brilliantly built and doesn't feel like a 15 year old car. But it is a 15 year old car and for those who want to move a bit more up to date, the F10 is IMHO as close as you will get in any modern car.
this, 100%.The engine and gearbox combination is the least annoying 2 litre diesel powerplant I have ever experienced. The gearbox is absolutely wonderful and does a fantastic job of making almost all of the annoying parts of the 2 litre engine go away - it's almost always in the right gear exactly when you want it to be and does a great deal to eliminate the dead zone below 2000rpm. You are right on that count - it is breathless below 2000rpm but the box goes a very, very long way to countering this.
The ride quality is not terrible at all. It isn't as good you would expect - on 17s with SE suspension it doesn't quite ride as well as my E39 on 18's and M Sport suspension but I am convinced this is 95% the awful runflat tyres BMW insist on fitting to them. It is, however, absolutely nothing like as bad as previous generation BMW's with runflats on.
Build quality? It's the best built BMW since the E39, IMHO. Sadly this doesn't mean its as good as an E39, annoyingly it isn't, there is the odd rattle and the doorcards creak if you push them, but every surface you touch feels of high quality and everything you interact with is solid and pleasing. Nothing at all wrong with the leather. It is a shame it isn't built as well as the E39 and it is annoying that modern cars don't feel as 'well built' as a 13 year old car but lets just pause for a second...
In 2001, a 230bhp petrol 5 Series Sport with Navigation, leather and Xenons would have cost you £38k. Adjusted for inflation, that would be £54,000 in todays money. Today, Broadspeed will supply you with a 245bhp petrol 5 Series M Sport with Navigation, leather and Xenons - and much more as well - for £38k.
The reason the F10 doesn't feel quite as expensive and well made as the E39 is because... it's massively cheaper!
Next... iDrive. Sorry, but the iDrive system fitted to the F10/F11 is exceptional, IMHO. A standout feature, it's easy to use, it's pleasing to look at, its full of features.
The E39 5 Series is IMHO the best 5 Series ever made and probably always will be. Nothing else will be quite as obviously better than everything else in its class as the E39 was. Even today it's great to drive, brilliantly built and doesn't feel like a 15 year old car. But it is a 15 year old car and for those who want to move a bit more up to date, the F10 is IMHO as close as you will get in any modern car.
I report only as I find. 'Mine' was a very early example of the F11, it may be that they've ironed out some of the problems. FWIW I got a ride in a newer F11, either 13 or 63 plate (I forget), 530d a couple of months back. The 6-cylinder engine seemed to make a massive difference to refinement, there was vastly less road noise and the ride was just in a different universe to 'my' 520d. Some criticisms still apply, such as the awkwardly-shaped boot, infuriating handbrake alarm, poor visibility, iDrive and horrible faux-leather seats. Dash felt somewhat better put together, it didn't rattle half as much (there was still the odd squeak), but then it wasn't being shaken to bits by a complete absence of effective damping. The owner told me the steering is still as bad as ever, though - no self-centering and no feel.
RoverP6B said:
I report only as I find. 'Mine' was a very early example of the F11, it may be that they've ironed out some of the problems. FWIW I got a ride in a newer F11, either 13 or 63 plate (I forget), 530d a couple of months back. The 6-cylinder engine seemed to make a massive difference to refinement, there was vastly less road noise and the ride was just in a different universe to 'my' 520d. Some criticisms still apply, such as the awkwardly-shaped boot, infuriating handbrake alarm, poor visibility, iDrive and horrible faux-leather seats. Dash felt somewhat better put together, it didn't rattle half as much (there was still the odd squeak), but then it wasn't being shaken to bits by a complete absence of effective damping. The owner told me the steering is still as bad as ever, though - no self-centering and no feel.
The handbrake alarm thing is bizarre, I have never encountered that. It's an automatic, a) Why do you sit with the handbrake on at traffic lights anyway and b) if you do want to do that, why not just use the Auto H functionality where it will automatically apply and disengage the handbrake for you?It isn't faux-leather at all, it's proper leather. The boot appears to me to be exactly the same shape as the E39 Tourer it replaced.
FWIW the one I drive is a 2010 as well, so it's not that.
RoverP6B said:
I report only as I find. 'Mine' was a very early example of the F11, it may be that they've ironed out some of the problems. FWIW I got a ride in a newer F11, either 13 or 63 plate (I forget), 530d a couple of months back. The 6-cylinder engine seemed to make a massive difference to refinement, there was vastly less road noise and the ride was just in a different universe to 'my' 520d. Some criticisms still apply, such as the awkwardly-shaped boot, infuriating handbrake alarm, poor visibility, iDrive and horrible faux-leather seats. Dash felt somewhat better put together, it didn't rattle half as much (there was still the odd squeak), but then it wasn't being shaken to bits by a complete absence of effective damping. The owner told me the steering is still as bad as ever, though - no self-centering and no feel.
As far as I'm aware there haven't been any suspension changes so you can't be talking sense there with respect to ride quality (unless sport vs SE) and road noise will be down to tyres, did you fit ling-long tyres to yours? Handbrake alarm? Well don't use the handbrake whilst you're moving!
Idrive - I'm sorry but if you can't work out how to use it you're either stupid or blind. It's so, so easy!
And the steering wheel does return to centre after a corner... Unless the ball joints or something are shot.
RoverP6B said:
I report only as I find. 'Mine' was a very early example of the F11, it may be that they've ironed out some of the problems. FWIW I got a ride in a newer F11, either 13 or 63 plate (I forget), 530d a couple of months back. The 6-cylinder engine seemed to make a massive difference to refinement, there was vastly less road noise and the ride was just in a different universe to 'my' 520d. Some criticisms still apply, such as the awkwardly-shaped boot, infuriating handbrake alarm, poor visibility, iDrive and horrible faux-leather seats. Dash felt somewhat better put together, it didn't rattle half as much (there was still the odd squeak), but then it wasn't being shaken to bits by a complete absence of effective damping. The owner told me the steering is still as bad as ever, though - no self-centering and no feel.
This is all down to the Run Flat Tyres. I recently switched from None Run Flat 17 inch tyres to the original standard Run Flat 19 inch tyres and my car has gone from being amazingly smooth, quiet and comfortable to a bone jarringly noisy turd. Ok I'm exaggerating slightly about the turd bit. I immediately noticed the extra road noise. It was so loud I stopped to check all the wheel nuts were tight. Then there is the banging and crashing over the slightest road surface imperfections. Also surprisingly the car's inability to centre the steering. I guarantee if you switched the tyres on your F10 to none run flats you would be amazed.
Fox- said:
The handbrake alarm thing is bizarre, I have never encountered that. It's an automatic, a) Why do you sit with the handbrake on at traffic lights anyway and b) if you do want to do that, why not just use the Auto H functionality where it will automatically apply and disengage the handbrake for you?
It isn't faux-leather at all, it's proper leather. The boot appears to me to be exactly the same shape as the E39 Tourer it replaced.
FWIW the one I drive is a 2010 as well, so it's not that.
Force of habit, I suppose - I always use the handbrake at traffic lights and didn't know you didn't do so with an autobox. The auto-brake thing was another infuriating thing because it would often cut in when crawling in traffic at about 5mph. The leather in my example was definitely NOT real cow-hide. The boot - as I said, I could not get a tumble dryer into the boot side-on (these things generally adhere to standard dimensions), the same appliance did fit side-on in the E39. Ditto my touring bike, except that wouldn't go on full stop (and without quick release wheels, I certainly wasn't about to break out the spanners).It isn't faux-leather at all, it's proper leather. The boot appears to me to be exactly the same shape as the E39 Tourer it replaced.
FWIW the one I drive is a 2010 as well, so it's not that.
E65Ross said:
As far as I'm aware there haven't been any suspension changes so you can't be talking sense there with respect to ride quality (unless sport vs SE) and road noise will be down to tyres, did you fit ling-long tyres to yours?
Handbrake alarm? Well don't use the handbrake whilst you're moving!
Idrive - I'm sorry but if you can't work out how to use it you're either stupid or blind. It's so, so easy!
And the steering wheel does return to centre after a corner... Unless the ball joints or something are shot.
The handbrake alarm came on if I brushed the throttle unconsciously when static. The ride quality may, most significantly, have been down to tyres - the 520d was running runflats as fitted by the factory, but I think the 530d was not. Both had the same 17" wheels. I only had the 520d for a month and it was not my property (it belonged to my insurer), so it was not for me to change the tyres. I can't imagine the ball-joints could have been shot on a thousand-miler, but there was no self-centering. iDrive - I can control most electronic devices with ease, but that one really defeated me. The layout of it was so utterly impenetrable...Handbrake alarm? Well don't use the handbrake whilst you're moving!
Idrive - I'm sorry but if you can't work out how to use it you're either stupid or blind. It's so, so easy!
And the steering wheel does return to centre after a corner... Unless the ball joints or something are shot.
RoverP6B said:
I can't imagine the ball-joints could have been shot on a thousand-miler, but there was no self-centering.
Read my post again. I noticed my car stopped self centering when I switched back to run flats. Steering is very numb around the centre. Car is awful. I'm currently deciding if I should go with not run flat 19 tyres or switch to 18 inch wheels with not run flats.Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff