Discussion
blank said:
It invalidates your warranty.
However, the dealer does not pay for the warranty, so they're unlikely to refuse work seeing as it gets them money from BMW.
If BMW found out they would reject the claim. They could probably even reject a claim on your door handle, as modification probably invalidates the warranty full stop rather than just on "affected parts".
I'm not sure how BMW might find out though. For the poster above whose ECU was changed, then it is possible the ECU went back to the manufacturer/supplier for testing, in which case they'd almost certainly know it had been toyed with.
Data from the ECU is also automatically stored when the car is plugged in, and anyone can look at it, so they may be able to tell from that too.
I'd add to the above that following the ECU sent back for testing then BMW can associate certain issues with remaps and given they have done yours F.O.C. anyone with any sense who reports similar problems would look into it. BMW / any maker are a business and they have T&C's for their warranty you breach those T&C and you lose the Warranty.However, the dealer does not pay for the warranty, so they're unlikely to refuse work seeing as it gets them money from BMW.
If BMW found out they would reject the claim. They could probably even reject a claim on your door handle, as modification probably invalidates the warranty full stop rather than just on "affected parts".
I'm not sure how BMW might find out though. For the poster above whose ECU was changed, then it is possible the ECU went back to the manufacturer/supplier for testing, in which case they'd almost certainly know it had been toyed with.
Data from the ECU is also automatically stored when the car is plugged in, and anyone can look at it, so they may be able to tell from that too.
Im amazed at how many people are blaze about it all & also even the suggestion about mapping their Comp Cars.. either those people are in low ish roles or dont value their job as break the rules and your comp finds out thats a disciplinary hearing which most likely would lead to dismissal as they cannot trust you. Also more to the point it would totally invalidate their comp car insurance so they would certainly fire you. Then you try explaining in interviews the reason why you had to leave the company (i.e. given the option resign or be fired) without a job to go into.
More fool you.
blank said:
It invalidates your warranty.
The inference in my post was not one of a point of law, but perhaps (too subtly) that the dealer & BMW are at liberty to consider many factors involved in a warranty claim and in this case, that they have honoured warranty work to look after a repeat customer.I guess, in theory, BMW could challenge any owner regarding the specification of fuels and oils used in the car over it's life to fight pretty much any case put forward for any wear and tear part failure on the grounds that it's 'invalidated the warranty', but it wouldn't be in their interest in the long term IMHO to upset many of their customers.
They replaced a lot of S50 Vanos units, a lot of S54 shell bearings (mostly short motors), a lot of engines with Nikasil liners in the 90's, which they could no doubt also have taken through the courts to mitigate damages, but they didn't.
FWIW, the car mentioned above is mine, not a company car.
[/quote]
The inference in my post was not one of a point of law, but perhaps (too subtly) that the dealer & BMW are at liberty to consider many factors involved in a warranty claim and in this case, that they have honoured warranty work to look after a repeat customer.
I guess, in theory, BMW could challenge any owner regarding the specification of fuels and oils used in the car over it's life to fight pretty much any case put forward for any wear and tear part failure on the grounds that it's 'invalidated the warranty', but it wouldn't be in their interest in the long term IMHO to upset many of their customers.
They replaced a lot of S50 Vanos units, a lot of S54 shell bearings (mostly short motors), a lot of engines with Nikasil liners in the 90's, which they could no doubt also have taken through the courts to mitigate damages, but they didn't.
FWIW, the car mentioned above is mine, not a company car.
[/quote]
But for warranty purposes you need a FBMWSH or a FSH using genuine or like for like spec parts - BMW would be using the correct oil and unless the indy is telling porkies about that empty canester of Mobil one in the corner of the garage (who knows what was really used if changed at all - especially with diesels as the oil goes black straight away....) then your fine.
You are told via the manual which fuels to use i.e. xRON but in the Uk thats not an issue unless you put in say petrol in a diesel or vice versa which is very evident if you do so.
All those problems you listed are due to failure of BMW parts/premature failure of their parts. If you have a remapped car which increases the stress on parts then clearly they are fully in their right to not pay for the damage done, more so that they encrypted the recent ECU's so as to prevent tampering it must be quite an issue for them to do that.
StuB said:
The inference in my post was not one of a point of law, but perhaps (too subtly) that the dealer & BMW are at liberty to consider many factors involved in a warranty claim and in this case, that they have honoured warranty work to look after a repeat customer.
You'll definitely have a lot more luck getting a dealer to do a warranty job they no they shouldn't than getting BMW to honour it.Things like the nikasil issues are many cases and well known, so the company needs to put the goodwill in to make sure they look good.
I'd be very surprised if your gearbox blew up on your (mapped) BM, and BMW paid the claim even though they knew, just to keep one customer sweet. Much more likely to happen with a dealer.
Every part which fails will certainly be checked to see what failed why it failed & Im sure they would store x failure x times and also if they check the ECU which of course they would then they could add in Remapped/tinkered with get enough of those instances and bye bye warranty.
Still its one hell of a risk on a £30-40k car, as if you have to pay for it it will be expensive but I guess being able to buy a £30-40k car means that a £5k repair bill will not be too much of an issue, however to those mapping a £6k 330d SE from 184bhp..well that would write the car off.
Still its one hell of a risk on a £30-40k car, as if you have to pay for it it will be expensive but I guess being able to buy a £30-40k car means that a £5k repair bill will not be too much of an issue, however to those mapping a £6k 330d SE from 184bhp..well that would write the car off.
Would a 6k 330d have a dealer warranty? 
Personally I'm of the opinion that with any modification of this kind the owner should treat the risk as his own. That way there are no awkward silences in the garage / showroom / bank managers office later down the line. The risks are largely proportional the speed you want to add without resorting to numerous uprated parts / re-engineering the entire car.
Personally I'm of the opinion that with any modification of this kind the owner should treat the risk as his own. That way there are no awkward silences in the garage / showroom / bank managers office later down the line. The risks are largely proportional the speed you want to add without resorting to numerous uprated parts / re-engineering the entire car.
There has been recentish changes in warranty laws (as mentioned earlier)
The idea is to stop car dealers having a strangle hold on where you get a vehicle serviced. Kepp that in mind, and you'll figure out what will and will not mess up a warranty.
Current things are -
the OBD2 diagnostic protocol, so any of those ELM ebay code readers are able to find faults, and you don't need 8k's worth of BMW kit, this opens up many garages to be able to diagnose and repair your car.
parts - use of non genuine parts is now allowed, as well as non franchise fitting
modifications - any modifications will only screw the warranty on parts they can affect, so if you're rolling on 22 inch rimz and your bushes keep wearing out, BMW won't honor that, but you'll still be fine if the engine blows up, as pimping wheels won't make a difference to the engine.
back to the remapping stuff - there isn't a button to press on BMW diagnostic gear to check to see if it's been modified. Internal checksums embedded in the program check to make sure nothing becomes corrupt, and these are all fixed after any changes are made to the software (otherwise the ECU will see the "sporty" values, recognise these as not being standard, and shut the car down assuming that it has had it's brain scrambled)
What ever version numbers are in the software will remain the same (unless the mapper chooses to change it, you can add you name in here for example, which would give the game away)
What can be done is checking the way it works, the GT1 scanner used by BMW has pre-programed good values so it can monitor a sensor output, and tell you if it is as expected, so it can show increased rail pressure and requested turbo boost.
plus, if you work all day on BMW's, you'll notice the difference on a mapped diesel in just its performance.
Look at it this way, if you can't find any evidence of a remap, then that suggests you have just been conned out of hundreds of pounds!
The idea is to stop car dealers having a strangle hold on where you get a vehicle serviced. Kepp that in mind, and you'll figure out what will and will not mess up a warranty.
Current things are -
the OBD2 diagnostic protocol, so any of those ELM ebay code readers are able to find faults, and you don't need 8k's worth of BMW kit, this opens up many garages to be able to diagnose and repair your car.
parts - use of non genuine parts is now allowed, as well as non franchise fitting
modifications - any modifications will only screw the warranty on parts they can affect, so if you're rolling on 22 inch rimz and your bushes keep wearing out, BMW won't honor that, but you'll still be fine if the engine blows up, as pimping wheels won't make a difference to the engine.
back to the remapping stuff - there isn't a button to press on BMW diagnostic gear to check to see if it's been modified. Internal checksums embedded in the program check to make sure nothing becomes corrupt, and these are all fixed after any changes are made to the software (otherwise the ECU will see the "sporty" values, recognise these as not being standard, and shut the car down assuming that it has had it's brain scrambled)
What ever version numbers are in the software will remain the same (unless the mapper chooses to change it, you can add you name in here for example, which would give the game away)
What can be done is checking the way it works, the GT1 scanner used by BMW has pre-programed good values so it can monitor a sensor output, and tell you if it is as expected, so it can show increased rail pressure and requested turbo boost.
plus, if you work all day on BMW's, you'll notice the difference on a mapped diesel in just its performance.
Look at it this way, if you can't find any evidence of a remap, then that suggests you have just been conned out of hundreds of pounds!
Welshbeef said:
Every part which fails will certainly be checked to see what failed why it failed & Im sure they would store x failure x times and also if they check the ECU which of course they would then they could add in Remapped/tinkered with get enough of those instances and bye bye warranty.
Still its one hell of a risk on a £30-40k car, as if you have to pay for it it will be expensive but I guess being able to buy a £30-40k car means that a £5k repair bill will not be too much of an issue, however to those mapping a £6k 330d SE from 184bhp..well that would write the car off.
FFS Welsh , please buy a bloody BMW soon as you seem to hand out so much advice on a car that you don't even own! Still its one hell of a risk on a £30-40k car, as if you have to pay for it it will be expensive but I guess being able to buy a £30-40k car means that a £5k repair bill will not be too much of an issue, however to those mapping a £6k 330d SE from 184bhp..well that would write the car off.
I myself have owned two 3.5D engine vehicles , both remapped and both have been a joy to own.
My 335D was remapped at 500 miles on the clock and i've now got over 40000. The car did have a sensor go which resulted in limp mode and even though i had to wait for the part for a week it was repaired under warranty with no trouble at all.
Just think how many remapped cars have been done on the 3.5D engine since 2005 ? DMS have several technician's going out daily around the country to meet demand and yet we never hear of problems on the forums.
Of course they will invalidate the warranty, but that is the risk you run. I suppose it depends on the type of person you are, whether your willing to risk it for the gains.
personally I would, and do. Might bite me in the arse, but Im taking that gamble based on the amount of information I've gained from other tuners on how often BMW actually notice the tune (and from that I don't mean those that forgot to take the piggyback out, or drilled into areas of the ECU to hold it etc)
personally I would, and do. Might bite me in the arse, but Im taking that gamble based on the amount of information I've gained from other tuners on how often BMW actually notice the tune (and from that I don't mean those that forgot to take the piggyback out, or drilled into areas of the ECU to hold it etc)
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