330ci or 330d

[Fox-]

I don't think many people here are diesel haters, they just.. prefer petrol engines for reasons it seems the diesel fans are unable to appreciate.

For the last three weeks I've pretty much been exclusively driving the 530d. It's nice - it's good to effortlessly waft. But it's not the choice when its me, a 150 mile A road run, its 1am, and nobody else is around, if you know what I mean, even if I doubt there would be anything in it in terms of overall journey time. I'd just rather be in the 530i.

[pgilc1]

Fox- said:

I don't think many people here are diesel haters, they just.. prefer petrol engines for reasons it seems the diesel fans are unable to appreciate.

For the last three weeks I've pretty much been exclusively driving the 530d. It's nice - it's good to effortlessly waft. But it's not the choice when its me, a 150 mile A road run, its 1am, and nobody else is around, if you know what I mean, even if I doubt there would be anything in it in terms of overall journey time. I'd just rather be in the 530i.

I think the diesel owners DO appreciate the merits of a good petrol engine, but weighing that up against what we perceive as the merits of a good diesel engine, we chose to drive a diesel.

And the keyphrase there is 'chose to', not 'have to'.

[pgilc1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

And you drone on about how it cant possibly be a 'drivers car' unless it revs to 6000 revs and how it cant be a 'drivers car' because it doesnt sound a particular way.

Mate, its the same narrow minded arguement you've had for ages.

Sensing deja vu now - i dont think you can even comprehend that other people can have a valid opinion, so going to leave it there.

[NoelWatson]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

"Many modern day cars petrols included will be turbo. There cleaner, greener and more powerful. Does not make them less of a car than a N/A powered one."

Compare the 330 and 335 petrol. IIRC the 30 is 20% more economical, has 10% less power and 20% less torque. Where are you getting your numbers from?

[pgilc1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[pgilc1]

NoelWatson said:

"Many modern day cars petrols included will be turbo. There cleaner, greener and more powerful. Does not make them less of a car than a N/A powered one."

Compare the 330 and 335 petrol. IIRC the 30 is 20% more economical, has 10% less power and 20% less torque. Where are you getting your numbers from?

You chose to mis-read that to make some misguided point.

What dxb is saying is that more and more cars are / will be turbocharged as a way of reducing emmissions and increasing economy.

You only have to look at volkswagens 1.4 supercharged turbocharged petrol engine to see that. More power than the 1.6 it replaces, yet better emmissions and better economy.

Now that BMW have introduced a two litre twin turbo diesel, how long will it be before we see a two litre twin turbo petrol, replacing at least the 325i maybe even the 330i?

[NoelWatson]

pgilc1 said:

NoelWatson said:

"Many modern day cars petrols included will be turbo. There cleaner, greener and more powerful. Does not make them less of a car than a N/A powered one."

Compare the 330 and 335 petrol. IIRC the 30 is 20% more economical, has 10% less power and 20% less torque. Where are you getting your numbers from?

You chose to mis-read that to make some misguided point.

What dxb is saying is that more and more cars are / will be turbocharged as a way of reducing emmissions and increasing economy.

You only have to look at volkswagens 1.4 supercharged turbocharged petrol engine to see that. More power than the 1.6 it replaces, yet better emmissions and better economy.

Now that BMW have introduced a two litre twin turbo diesel, how long will it be before we see a two litre twin turbo petrol, replacing at least the 325i maybe even the 330i?

"What dxb is saying is that more and more cars are / will be turbocharged as a way of reducing emmissions and increasing economy."

And I'm saying compare the 330 and 335. If you were to scale the 330 to 3.5 litres, there would be little difference in emissions/economy, so i don't udnerstand the argument.

[Welshbeef]

pgilc1 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The engine in the 35d IS great.

1. The way there is power from very low down the rev range - something not previously associated with either a turbo petrol or turbo diesel,
2. the overtaking power that it has,
3. the fact that the power is there without having to rev it hard to get it,
4. the instantaneous throttle response,
5. the relentlessness of the power,
6. the option of blipping down the gears through the tip tronic box,
7. the F1 style paddle controls meaning you dont even need to take your hands off the steering wheel to drop a cog,
8. the fact that even in remapped form it can get 500lb/ft torque down onto the road,
9. the fact that it can be lazy power if you want it to be - just skipping past traffic at your leisure.

Cross country, that adds up to a big heap of fun. On motorways its perfect. It can be a daily commuting hack. It can be a pussycat when taxiing the kids around. Around town it can zip around traffic. It can embarass most (all?) hot hatches at the traffic light grand prix.... THATs how 99% of drivers use their cars 99% of the time. Thats what makes it a great drivers engine.

Edited by pgilc1 on Sunday 5th October 18:48

pgilc1 - does your 535d have paddle shift on the wheel? What reg is it? Notice it was £23k, does your have Pro Nav/leather? What other kit did you get for that purchase price?
Full agree with you as it being the best real world car currently Pace & economy & refinement.

[Welshbeef]

dxb335d said:

pgilc1 said:

davidd said:

Cool, this argument again

Horses for courses chaps...

My 335d (it is an estate the really dull one) is brilliant and I love it. My cerbra was also brilliant and I loved it.

They are different....

But then I love driving most things...

D

Absolutely. Couldnt agree more.

Pilgc, what some people cant comprehend is that the x35d is a million miles away from your usual noisy VAG diesel.

dub - the x35d isnt silent at idle outside of the car I started one up at Coopers BMW and the 123d beside it sounded very similar. Note I didnt rev either just let them idle.

[Welshbeef]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think you will find that the 993 TT the 450bhp GT2 to be a full on homoglation special. Utterly stunning - I'd say dangerous to the unskilled driver (well possibly dangerous to even the average to good drivers).

Dont you think its good that not everyone likes the same things?
I mean some people love the F430 and others the M5 both are equially quick. Some love the rotary some love I4 I5 or I6 while others would only ever have a V of some configuration.

Your talking about driving dynamics but come off it unless your breaking the speed limits your never going to get close to these cars limits unless your doing a hairpin and attempting a 70mph drift.... Be serious only a tiny % of people ever race on circuits and of them an even smaller % take their own car on it. Frankly I'd want a track only car (not compromised for road use) and a great road car.

[Welshbeef]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Dub - I'd not have a go at the E36 328i - thats is/was a good car for its time. Maybe this persons budget for a car cannot stretch to any x35d units or maybe not willing to spend that amount on a car.
I'd say never diss someone's vehicle - they have chosen it for some reason probably emotional & within a budgetory constraint.

[Welshbeef]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Given he states that it doesnt rev to 6000rpm - how about many of the great classics of bygone eras which rev to 5000 or at best 5500rpm? Are they sh^t?
Or is it strictly which ever car (petrol) has the longest rev range is the best?

[Welshbeef]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

With regard to one less flight a year.... unless your the threshold passenger i.e. whereby they need to schedule an additional flight its pointless as the flight will go anyway.

[Welshbeef]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I personally LOVE the noise of the I6 330i really nice both from behind and inside the cabin.
As for the TDI noise... well on the M way its silent acceleration there is a noise different not as nice but different. If I had one & didnt like the noise I'd turn up the music.

Also the other issue is you can only use the full rev range up to 2nd gear in the 330i before your at NSL!

[Welshbeef]

NoelWatson said:

pgilc1 said:

NoelWatson said:

"Many modern day cars petrols included will be turbo. There cleaner, greener and more powerful. Does not make them less of a car than a N/A powered one."

Compare the 330 and 335 petrol. IIRC the 30 is 20% more economical, has 10% less power and 20% less torque. Where are you getting your numbers from?

You chose to mis-read that to make some misguided point.

What dxb is saying is that more and more cars are / will be turbocharged as a way of reducing emmissions and increasing economy.

You only have to look at volkswagens 1.4 supercharged turbocharged petrol engine to see that. More power than the 1.6 it replaces, yet better emmissions and better economy.

Now that BMW have introduced a two litre twin turbo diesel, how long will it be before we see a two litre twin turbo petrol, replacing at least the 325i maybe even the 330i?

"What dxb is saying is that more and more cars are / will be turbocharged as a way of reducing emmissions and increasing economy."

And I'm saying compare the 330 and 335. If you were to scale the 330 to 3.5 litres, there would be little difference in emissions/economy, so i don't udnerstand the argument.

But then you hit the big issue as you can only (currently) get a big engine emmitting so much C02/km a 3.5ltr would be pushing up the limit & also for an I6 your starting to get very large pistons = longer engine = more weight over the front wheels than 50;50

[pgilc1]

Welshbeef said:

pgilc1 - does your 535d have paddle shift on the wheel? What reg is it? Notice it was £23k, does your have Pro Nav/leather? What other kit did you get for that purchase price?
Full agree with you as it being the best real world car currently Pace & economy & refinement.

It doesnt have paddle shift, but it can be retrofitted if any you're looking at doesnt have it. The 335d seems to have it as standard and its only a £70 option on 535d's are about june 07 so newer ones are likely to have it.

Mines March 05 and it came with leather, pro nav, bluetooth, changer and all the other 535d bits - climate, etc. It was cheap at the time - the cheapest AUC listed in the UK in fact, but prices have dropped maybe another £2K since then.

They did me a deal on a brand new set of 172s and brand new tyres - bridgestones? - off a brand new 535d. I got that for £1000, ie, for a price of cheap replicas and budget tyres.

[pgilc1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The problem is, you seem to be defining 'involvement' as revving to 6000rpm, and sounding good...

[pgilc1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

1. The way there is power from very low down the rev range - something not previously associated with either a turbo petrol or turbo diesel,

= lots of low rev shove

pgilc1 said:

2. the overtaking power that it has,

= lots of low rev shove

pgilc1 said:

3. the fact that the power is there without having to rev it hard to get it,

= lots of low rev shove

pgilc1 said:

4. the instantaneous throttle response,

= pure fantasy, it has nothing like instantaneous throttle response. It's very good for a turbo diesel, but compared to a really response petrol engine, the throttle response is still extremely dull.

pgilc1 said:

5. the relentlessness of the power,

= again, lots of low rev shove!

pgilc1 said:

6. the option of blipping down the gears through the tip tronic box,

= at best, not a feature exclusive to the 335d, you can get that on any of the engine optio ns of the three, and at worst robs you of a proper manual box.

pgilc1 said:

7. the F1 style paddle controls meaning you dont even need to take your hands off the steering wheel to drop a cog,

= see above.

pgilc1 said:

8. the fact that even in remapped form it can get 500lb/ft torque down onto the road,

= a fair point to a degree that applies to most turbos, but in the end boils down once again to lots of shove.

pgilc1 said:

9. the fact that it can be lazy power if you want it to be - just skipping past traffic at your leisure.

= guess what, that's right, it's lots of shove!

All you've done above is equate some very very useful driving traits of a 35d to 'lots of low end shove', which it isnt, no more than, say a e55 merc could be described as only having 'lots of low end shove'.

[pgilc1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Well i think we should therefore agree to disagree. These things can get a bit circular. I know that my local dealers cant remember the last time he sold a big engined five like a 540i or a 550i, yet 535d's go out the door all the time - so im not alone in my preference. BUT i do know that some people prefer N/A petrols (my wife for example) and theres a lot of evidence to support their view too.

[Welshbeef]

I think with the 545i & 550i - the market is dead due to the fact fuel costs, taxes, CO2 comp car taxes & dire residuals.

Also in big heavy cars like the 5er I think the TDi's are better suited - in fact Id guess all the petrols are autos anyway so.. why bother with a TDI?