BMW diesel opinions

[raharley]

pgilc1 said:

significantly more economical.

3 or 4 real world mpg is not a significant difference as far I'm concerned. I can't understand people spending 25k on a car, be it on finance or whatever, then banging on about slight tax/fuel savings each year which make little difference to the bottom line and pale in significance compared your monthly payment. Diesel's are ~4-5% more expensive to buy too. A few grand buys a lot of petrol.

[Funk]

raharley said:

pgilc1 said:

significantly more economical.

3 or 4 real world mpg is not a significant difference as far I'm concerned. I can't understand people spending 25k on a car, be it on finance or whatever, then banging on about slight tax/fuel savings each year which make little difference to the bottom line and pale in significance compared your monthly payment. Diesel's are ~4-5% more expensive to buy too. A few grand buys a lot of petrol.

Diesels will retain more of their value when you come to sell in the future too, they don't magically drop to the same price as their petrol counterparts.

I will say this though; BMW are producing some exceptional engines at the moment, both petrol and diesel. Compare other manufacturers' petrol and diesel engines and the diesels are appalling.

[LocoBlade]

raharley said:

pgilc1 said:

significantly more economical.

3 or 4 real world mpg is not a significant difference as far I'm concerned. I can't understand people spending 25k on a car, be it on finance or whatever, then banging on about slight tax/fuel savings each year which make little difference to the bottom line and pale in significance compared your monthly payment. Diesel's are ~4-5% more expensive to buy too. A few grand buys a lot of petrol.

What many also forget/ignore is that a few grand less in purchase price only buys lots of petrol if you get that most/all of that saving back when you sell it. If you buy a petrol that's £2k cheaper but when you sell it 3 years later the diesel is still worth £1.5-2k more, then you don't actually have any siginficant money "saved" to buy additional petrol with, so running costs are purely related to fuel economy, servicing and tax/insurance costs

Personally I've just done the sums comparing a year old 123d with a similar price/age 130i. The 130 will obviously be a bit quicker and nicer to thrash on the odd occasion the roads / traffic allow, but even including relative petrol/diesel prices the 123d worked out around £3k cheaper to run over 3 years doing 15k a year, nearly £90 a month. It also means if times change and I start doing more miles for work again, my wallet won't take such a bashing as I wouldn't need to make the choice of either continuing to run a thirsty petrol or having to change cars to something more suitable.

[dick_dastardly71]

raharley said:

dick_dastardly71 said:

In what way aren't the diesel running costs good? What are you comparing against? The wife's 335d has c.30% better average mpg than the 335i that we used to run, costs at least a couple of hundred quid a year less to tax, and costs the same to service. A current average of 38mpg for a 286bhp / 428lb ft motor is pretty good I think.

The fact that diesel probably cost 15p more than petrol these days, and that isn't going to change. Why do people forget that when doing their sums?

38mpg for 286bhp is not to be scoffed at though. That's if you can get over it sounding like tractor

Just as well mine's a V8 M3 then, which sounds nothing like a tractor.

Edited by dick_dastardly71 on Friday 16th January 23:49

[dick_dastardly71]

gizlaroc said:

dick_dastardly71 said:

In what way aren't the diesel running costs good? What are you comparing against? The wife's 335d has c.30% better average mpg than the 335i that we used to run, costs at least a couple of hundred quid a year less to tax, and costs the same to service. A current average of 38mpg for a 286bhp / 428lb ft motor is pretty good I think.

330i gives me around 32mpg (new 272bhp version) running around, and when I had it over 2 days and 500 miles it returned 38 mpg.

Now I have only had a 335d touring for a day, went from Norwich to Solihull in it and it returned........38mpg.

The 335i doing the same run consistently returned 33mpg doing that same run, even when I wasn't out travelling it would be above 25mpg, that is when the 335d would be down to 32mpg.

I would take the 330i over any other non-M 3 series, the combination of engine, sound, performance and economy is just incredible, and it gives the same sort of power as the 335d and costs less to fuel with current prices.

So as I say, I don't think the performance is bad, I don't think they are expensive to run but I do think there are better options now.

Giz, having had 335d and 335i, the 'd' is returning c.30% better mpg than the 'i' based on the same journeys, so is costing significantly less in fuel despite having similar performance. Now, as per other posts I have made, I think BMW 6+ cylinder petrol engines are the dogs and i would struggle to go the diesel route as an only car, but you can't detract from the merits of the x35d engine (or any of the BMW diesels) . And in my experience the x35d has been more economical than the equivalent petrol.

[pgilc1]

raharley said:

pgilc1 said:

significantly more economical.

3 or 4 real world mpg is not a significant difference as far I'm concerned. I can't understand people spending 25k on a car, be it on finance or whatever, then banging on about slight tax/fuel savings each year which make little difference to the bottom line and pale in significance compared your monthly payment. Diesel's are ~4-5% more expensive to buy too. A few grand buys a lot of petrol.

38 - 30.7 = 7.3, not 3 or 4.

It also equates to 23.7% better economy.

If, for example you got a 23.7% pay increase, would you not describe that as 'significant'?

Edited by pgilc1 on Saturday 17th January 11:26

[pgilc1]

gizlaroc said:

dick_dastardly71 said:

In what way aren't the diesel running costs good? What are you comparing against? The wife's 335d has c.30% better average mpg than the 335i that we used to run, costs at least a couple of hundred quid a year less to tax, and costs the same to service. A current average of 38mpg for a 286bhp / 428lb ft motor is pretty good I think.

330i gives me around 32mpg (new 272bhp version) running around, and when I had it over 2 days and 500 miles it returned 38 mpg.

Now I have only had a 335d touring for a day, went from Norwich to Solihull in it and it returned........38mpg.

The 335i doing the same run consistently returned 33mpg doing that same run, even when I wasn't out travelling it would be above 25mpg, that is when the 335d would be down to 32mpg.

I would take the 330i over any other non-M 3 series, the combination of engine, sound, performance and economy is just incredible, and it gives the same sort of power as the 335d and costs less to fuel with current prices.


So as I say, I don't think the performance is bad, I don't think they are expensive to run but I do think there are better options now.

As others have said, the 335d will be significantly more economical than the 335i. No amount of smoke and mirrors will change that.

The 330i is a very nice engine btw.

[pgilc1]

dick_dastardly71 said:

raharley said:

dick_dastardly71 said:

In what way aren't the diesel running costs good? What are you comparing against? The wife's 335d has c.30% better average mpg than the 335i that we used to run, costs at least a couple of hundred quid a year less to tax, and costs the same to service. A current average of 38mpg for a 286bhp / 428lb ft motor is pretty good I think.

The fact that diesel probably cost 15p more than petrol these days, and that isn't going to change. Why do people forget that when doing their sums?

38mpg for 286bhp is not to be scoffed at though. That's if you can get over it sounding like tractor

Just as well mine's a V8 M3 then, which sounds nothing like a tractor.

Edited by dick_dastardly71 on Friday 16th January 23:49

Pity it drops in value like snow off a ditch, and has the same running costs as a small south american country, otherwise it would be perfect.

[gizlaroc]

pgilc1 said:

gizlaroc said:

dick_dastardly71 said:

In what way aren't the diesel running costs good? What are you comparing against? The wife's 335d has c.30% better average mpg than the 335i that we used to run, costs at least a couple of hundred quid a year less to tax, and costs the same to service. A current average of 38mpg for a 286bhp / 428lb ft motor is pretty good I think.

330i gives me around 32mpg (new 272bhp version) running around, and when I had it over 2 days and 500 miles it returned 38 mpg.

Now I have only had a 335d touring for a day, went from Norwich to Solihull in it and it returned........38mpg.

The 335i doing the same run consistently returned 33mpg doing that same run, even when I wasn't out travelling it would be above 25mpg, that is when the 335d would be down to 32mpg.

I would take the 330i over any other non-M 3 series, the combination of engine, sound, performance and economy is just incredible, and it gives the same sort of power as the 335d and costs less to fuel with current prices.


So as I say, I don't think the performance is bad, I don't think they are expensive to run but I do think there are better options now.

As others have said, the 335d will be significantly more economical than the 335i. No amount of smoke and mirrors will change that.

The 330i is a very nice engine btw.

I agree the 335d would return better economy, but I would take the 330i over the 335i anyway.

I think the 335i misses a trick, it feels too much like a big diesel to the point where you may as well buy the big diesel.

I enjoyed my 335i while I had it, but it always felt lacking, where as the 330i felt so much more of a drivers car, plus when you want to pootle around it has simply ridiculous economy.

To me the 330i absolutely stomps all over the 335d in every area but one, and that is lazy driving, there is no denying the twing turbo BMW diesel is the ultimate mile muncher when you are tired.
I did 9000 miles in the first 2 months in my 535d sport touring, and once remapped it never feels anything but seriously quick, not balistic, but you're never felt wanting for more, it gobbles the miles up as good as nearly anything out there.


But I think the diesels very much come down to what sort of driving you're doing, if you are sat on the motorway a lot then they are great, but get them in town or shorter jouneys (sub 10 miles) most of the time, or you're buying a car because you just like nice cars, they don't make as much sense.

I always get somewhere between the urban and combined figure with a diesel, normally nearer the urban figure, but with the petrol I always seem to get closer to the official combined figure, jsut he sort of driving I do and where I live etc.

If you look at the 330i vs the 335d you will see how similar they are..

330i auto
Urban (mpg) (28.5)
Combined (mpg) (39.2)

CO2 emissions (g/km) 173 (173)
Max output hp/rpm 272/6700
Acceleration 0-62 mph (sec) (6.2)

Unladen (EU) 1545 (1560) (kg)



335d
Urban (mpg) 31
Combined (mpg) 42.2

CO2 emissions (g/km) (177)
Max output hp/rpm 286/4400
Acceleration 0-62 mph (sec) (5.9)

Unladen (EU) (1645) (kg)




Let's say for aguments sake you get the official urban figure for both and you do 30,000 miles a year...

£81 a week in the diesel
£78 a week in the petrol

That is based on petrol costing 85p a litre and diesel 95p a litre. So being generous to the diesel again.


As I say, a sweet sound straight six BMW petrol is no longer the expensive option, it sounds nicer, handles better and for me preferable.

I think you have got to buy what you like, simple as that.

[NoelWatson]

gizlaroc said:

dick_dastardly71 said:

In what way aren't the diesel running costs good? What are you comparing against? The wife's 335d has c.30% better average mpg than the 335i that we used to run, costs at least a couple of hundred quid a year less to tax, and costs the same to service. A current average of 38mpg for a 286bhp / 428lb ft motor is pretty good I think.

330i gives me around 32mpg (new 272bhp version) running around, and when I had it over 2 days and 500 miles it returned 38 mpg.

Now I have only had a 335d touring for a day, went from Norwich to Solihull in it and it returned........38mpg.

The 335i doing the same run consistently returned 33mpg doing that same run, even when I wasn't out travelling it would be above 25mpg, that is when the 335d would be down to 32mpg.

I would take the 330i over any other non-M 3 series, the combination of engine, sound, performance and economy is just incredible, and it gives the same sort of power as the 335d and costs less to fuel with current prices.


So as I say, I don't think the performance is bad, I don't think they are expensive to run but I do think there are better options now.

Would be good to see what the new 330d gives