BMWs with small six-cylinder engines

[forsure]

Matt UK said:

I had an e46 320i. 6 cyl noise, mpg and running costs yet 4 cyl performance.

So smooth though. I always enjoyed driving anything with the 2.2 six, the e46 320i auto in particular. But I wouldn't buy one - all BMW sixes are sweet, so the bigger the better.

[Robert060379]

LocoBlade said:

Robert060379 said:

While there is no denying the E36 328i is the better car on paper I could not see how the car is £1895 a year better than the E36 320i.

What's best for you and what's best for the majority are two seperate things, as the £1900 insurance premium on a 328 is something that's only relevant to you. It certainly makes the 320 a no brainer for you simply because the 328 is too expensive for you to insure, but for most people over 25-30 the difference between insuring a 320 and a 328 wouldn't be anywhere near £1900, in fact both could be insured fully comp for well under £300 in many cases so that differentiator is almost irrelevant.

Exactly. That's why I said "in my opinion".

The quote for the 328 was over £3,000!

The difference between the two cars was £1895.

[Fox-]

Robert060379 said:

My E36 320i (1991cc) costs £1895 less to insure than my brothers E36 328i would.

This really is a complete red herring and therefore frankly irrelevent as thats such a bizarre figure. How can a 320i possibly cost nearly £2000 less than a 328i? The only way I can imagine this being the case is if you are a particularly young driver, in which case the 320i itself is going to be far from cheap, indicating an overall premium for the 328i of what, over £3000? Really? Thats so far from typical it simply has no place in the thread.

Even aged 22 my 530i cost barely a grand to insure - and now at 26 its £383.

[Shropshiremike]

Pentoman said:

Clearly the big petrols have the extra acceleration, but for those who don't really need or want all that performance? I'm still wondering. The less torquey models should/could have a lighter gearchange/clutch, possibly things like more feelsome steering and smaller wheels/tyres and overall lower unsprung weight (?), plus the engines may be a bit smoother. If they have slightly lower grip limits that's no big deal, in fact possibly a good thing especially if they are approached with greater progression. Many reviews rate the handling of the lower powered/basic models of certain cars above the higher powered ones - they seem to prefer those with less weight over the nose and smaller wheels and tyres for pure handling.

You have to bear in mind, that on the E36 model, the M52 alloy block engine was quite a few kg lighter than the earlier iron block 320i and 325i engine. Also you could have a 328i specced on 205/60 x 15s without the 704 option ( i.e thinner ARBs and softer springs ). So you could end up with a relatively light but powerful 6-cylinder on reasonably narrow, small wheels. The steering was the same on all the non-M E36 6-cylinders as well, the only difference in feel could possibly come from the earlier arb/strut arrangement.

When the E46 came along, the bigger 6-cylinders did have bigger,wider wheels, necessitated on the 330s by the brake disc size....and also it was becoming more fashionable to have big wheels and wider tyres by the time the E46 came along

Edited by Shropshiremike on Tuesday 18th May 10:12

[Yelly]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Don't be so silly. The quoted 170bhp and 192bhp are poles apart, if they are to be believed. 13% more power apparantly. But the performance figures don't reflect that, and nether does driving them. I've owned an E36 323i, a 325i, a 328i and an M3 Evo as well as others, so I'm fairly well qualified to comment on reality.

[theboss]

Fox- said:

Even aged 22 my 530i cost barely a grand to insure - and now at 26 its £383.

I keep seeing statements like this - insurance for £300-400 on group 16-17 cars - do you mind me asking who you use??

I'm insuring a 330i (E90) for about £800 and I'm 28 with 9 years protected NCB. It's gone up steadily from about £500 a few years ago (I had an E39 530d back then). I've sought quotes from all over the place but can't better this. I'm covered for 25k miles, that's about the only thing I can think of that may put the price above average. I tried putting the voluntary excess up to £1k+ and it hardly made a difference. Currently with Direct Line and have a few policies with them.

[S3_Graham]

theboss said:

Fox- said:

Even aged 22 my 530i cost barely a grand to insure - and now at 26 its £383.

I keep seeing statements like this - insurance for £300-400 on group 16-17 cars - do you mind me asking who you use??

I'm insuring a 330i (E90) for about £800 and I'm 28 with 9 years protected NCB. It's gone up steadily from about £500 a few years ago (I had an E39 530d back then). I've sought quotes from all over the place but can't better this. I'm covered for 25k miles, that's about the only thing I can think of that may put the price above average. I tried putting the voluntary excess up to £1k+ and it hardly made a difference. Currently with Direct Line and have a few policies with them.

im 24 with 6 years NCB, 3 named drivers (gf of 24 also inc) and pay £520 fully comp, protected no claims etc for my E36 328 sport. Also with directline.

[LocoBlade]

theboss said:

Fox- said:

Even aged 22 my 530i cost barely a grand to insure - and now at 26 its £383.

I keep seeing statements like this - insurance for £300-400 on group 16-17 cars - do you mind me asking who you use??

I'm insuring a 330i (E90) for about £800 and I'm 28 with 9 years protected NCB. It's gone up steadily from about £500 a few years ago (I had an E39 530d back then). I've sought quotes from all over the place but can't better this. I'm covered for 25k miles, that's about the only thing I can think of that may put the price above average. I tried putting the voluntary excess up to £1k+ and it hardly made a difference. Currently with Direct Line and have a few policies with them.

A lot depends on your postcode I think. I'm 34 with full NCB and no points living in a fairly rural part of Hants with the wife as a named driver, and for the past few years at least my group 16 Leon Cupra cost me under £300 to insure with 15k annual mileage, formerly with Privilege then with First Direct (the bank). I've now changed the car to an 123d M Sport which is the same group 16 as the Leon and that cost me £230 at last renewal. The stupid thing is my wife's boggo 1.8 Focus hardly costs any less depsite being group 6 with the same two drivers and less mileage.

[Sods Law]

Im not sure on the exact measure you are using, but
my current E46 330Ci gets me
30ish MPG on my 100mile a day commute, M40/M25, is a great alrounder,
for every 10mph over 80 remove about 2-3mpg
round town 23mpg
Pressing on gets to 9mpg
0-60 6.5secs

My Previous 320d Saloon, Remapped gave me
55 MPG on a long run at 85
On a bahn storm I was getting 34mpg at 130mph cruise
PH Tour of Scotland I got tpo 18mpg
0-60 about 7.5ish

Both Sports/M-Sports Similar mileage etc

Now on the motorway, the 320 was a great tool and comparable to the 330, on the run the cars are fairly matched, the 320d had a sharper turn in, but the 330 is more positive mid and exit launching.
The standing performance of the the 330 will win on a drag, but over a long distance the cars would be equal
Mid range 50-90 the 320d might have actually been quicker tbh, but thats Torque for you.

as to a smaller v's bigger capacity, I would go for the 330Ci every time for its alround prowess, however if fuel costs are a issue, then the 320d remapped wins by along way!

EFA - Needed to be more anal

Edited by Sods Law on Wednesday 19th May 23:36

[Shropshiremike]

Robert060379 said:

My E36 320i (1991cc) costs £1895 less to insure than my brothers E36 328i would. Thing is the 328i is only a second and a half quicker to sixty, 20mph faster flat out and crosses the quarter mile 1.2 seconds sooner. My 320i does on average 12mpg more than his 328i and on the track the 320i has less understeer in oversteer out cornering issues. In my opinion the 320i is an all round better drivers car than the 328i dispite the 40bhp difference.

Edited by Robert060379 on Sunday 16th May 07:48

I had a look at the Autocar road test from '91 compared and the 320i was only about 10mph down on top speed ( 132mph ) compared to the 143 of the 328. Took a hit on the acceleration in their timed tests though as it was almost 3 seconds down on the 328 to 60 and a lot more by 100. I can scan it in for you if you like?

[Fox-]

Sods Law said:

Im not sure on the exact measure you are using, but
my current E46 330Ci gets me
30ish MPG on my 100mile a day commute, M40/M25, is a great alrounder,
for every 10mph over 80 remove about 2-3mpg
round town 23mpg
Pressing on gets to 9mpg
0-60 6.5secs

My Previous 320d Saloon, Remapped gave me
55 MPG on a long run at 85
On a bahn storm I was getting 34mpg at 130mph cruise
PH Tour of Scotland I got tpo 18mpg
0-60 about 7.5ish

Both M-Sports Similar mileage etc

This is a post full of quite a bit of misinformation I think - firstly neither of them are likely to have been M Sport's - the M Sport trim level on the E46 appeared in early 2005 (perhaps very late 04?) and your 330Ci looks to be a prefacelift example so its definately a Sport, not an M Sport.

Secondly 0-60 in 7.5 seconds from a remapped 150 320d? I really dont think so - even the current absolute latest gen 320d can't quite manage that despite a load more power.

Thirdly quicker in gear than the 320d? Perhaps if you did the usual 'lets do 30-70 in 5th!' routine, but if you use that lovely gearbox in your 330ci, it'll drop the 320d under any circumstances.

Congrats on making the swap though, you've got the better car now!

[LocoBlade]

Fox- said:

Secondly 0-60 in 7.5 seconds from a remapped 150 320d? I really dont think so - even the current absolute latest gen 320d can't quite manage that despite a load more power.

No reason why not, a mapped 150 engine would go to about 185-190bhp at a guess, which at least as much as the current 320d in a car that weighs about the same. Likewise the 120d is 176bhp and hardly any lighter yet that hits 60 in 7.5s too.

[Sods Law]

Fox- said:

Sods Law said:

Im not sure on the exact measure you are using, but
my current E46 330Ci gets me
30ish MPG on my 100mile a day commute, M40/M25, is a great alrounder,
for every 10mph over 80 remove about 2-3mpg
round town 23mpg
Pressing on gets to 9mpg
0-60 6.5secs

My Previous 320d Saloon, Remapped gave me
55 MPG on a long run at 85
On a bahn storm I was getting 34mpg at 130mph cruise
PH Tour of Scotland I got tpo 18mpg
0-60 about 7.5ish

Both M-Sports Similar mileage etc

This is a post full of quite a bit of misinformation I think - firstly neither of them are likely to have been M Sport's - the M Sport trim level on the E46 appeared in early 2005 (perhaps very late 04?) and your 330Ci looks to be a prefacelift example so its definately a Sport, not an M Sport.

Secondly 0-60 in 7.5 seconds from a remapped 150 320d? I really dont think so - even the current absolute latest gen 320d can't quite manage that despite a load more power.

Thirdly quicker in gear than the 320d? Perhaps if you did the usual 'lets do 30-70 in 5th!' routine, but if you use that lovely gearbox in your 330ci, it'll drop the 320d under any circumstances.

Congrats on making the swap though, you've got the better car now!

Im pressuming you have direct ownership experience of both these cars then?

Turns on Anal mode

The 320d was a July 2004 production car, hence the 150hp diesel and thus a full M-Sport, ok the 330Ci is a sport (with all the M badgers, etc but before BMW out the M?), and for the Fuel and performance figures above still has the 225/255, 18" wheel/tyre combination. If we want to inue to be truely Anal, the 320d was a 4 door and the 330 is a coupe.

I am purely going on the experience of owning the cars and 12000 miles in the 320D over 8months. I usually ran it on Shell V-Power diesel plus a healthy Cetane booster, additonally the map was a more agressive than normal increase many where 50NM, this was a 90NM torque figure increase.

The 330 is a november 2001 production car plate Which I do a 550 mile a week commute and have owned for 5months

I am not reffering to a 5th gear drag, but real world in gear motorway use.
I took the 320d on the PH TV&S section SAS Tour of Scotland so I have a very good experience of the cars performance on every thing from 140mph Autobarn dashes to Single track B road hoons.
This is also quite a simple factor
330Ci has quoted 231Bhp and 300 NM Torque
320drmp had quoted 185Bhp and 390 NM Torque

So with 90nm more the 320d will have the advantage in Gear, admitedly at certain points but then thats why I like manuals and as I said the 330Ci on outright performance.

So from the driving seat of your current 530 and previous mondeo im not sure how you can subjectively make the comments you have?

Anal mode off

The only slight "Missinformation" was the "M" bit, I appologise to the OP if that cause confusion but hey some time's I regret being helpful and typing...

Hope that covers it.....

Dave

• To the OP I hope these have been of help to you I really can rate the E46 diesel and 6c Petrols they are a great allrounder and offer in my mind excellent efficiency whether Fuel, or just covering ground