£3000 E38, worth chopping in an E39?
Discussion
Looking at getting a 728i or 740 to replace my 129k V rev 528, which I reckon is worth £800 - £1000. No real reason, just fancy a change, with the sale of the E39 I should have around £3k, which by the looks of things can get me a late model. Is there a huge difference in mpg with the 7 Series? I'm used to mid 30's on a long run. What about parts cost?
I brought a 2000 model year E38 740 Sport as my daily run around/motorway cruiser last April. I absolutely love it and my porker has hardly been used since.
IMHO, the E38 represents much better value than eqv E39's.
Build quality is old school BMW - very robust and able handle the mileage, but like most aging (and newer)cars, things do go wrong. Mine has needed an AUX fan (found paten part), air con re gas and top rad hose since purchase. The first two were expected replacements and the later should have been.
For the price I paid, it boarders on disposable motoring and if anything big went wrong, the car would be broken.
Would I buy another....absolutely.
IMHO, the E38 represents much better value than eqv E39's.
Build quality is old school BMW - very robust and able handle the mileage, but like most aging (and newer)cars, things do go wrong. Mine has needed an AUX fan (found paten part), air con re gas and top rad hose since purchase. The first two were expected replacements and the later should have been.
For the price I paid, it boarders on disposable motoring and if anything big went wrong, the car would be broken.
Would I buy another....absolutely.
I bought a £2k E38 750 and a week later drove it across France, six months later its now been across Spain. It's great, plenty fast and fun enough. Touch wood, in 4,000 miles an indicator fell out but that is all. Doesn't even use oil!
When I am in it I can't help myself smugly thinking, why on earth spend more on a car? Obviously, its a bit different from my 911 - but perfectly so!
When I am in it I can't help myself smugly thinking, why on earth spend more on a car? Obviously, its a bit different from my 911 - but perfectly so!
I have owned a 728i for around 3 years... its been the best car I have ever owned...
However, Like any older "quality" car they can be a money pit in terms of maintenance. they may be cheap to buy but they still have £50k type running costs! I took ages to find a nice example, many I looked at had numerous faults that could have cost a fortune to fix. I read a magazine article a while ago about these cars, and their advice was to buy on condition, not age as the newest E38 is now 10 years old. A perfect 1996 car that has all the big bits done is better financially than a 2001 sport that has loads of potential big bills!
One of my mates bought a 2000 sport last year (he had always admired my E38...)but it was a complete disaster! He spent £700 having the brakes and suspension done, then it started overheating so he had a new radiator, water pump and thermostat... another £300. Then he filled the car with fuel one day and he noticed fuel running out. The fuel tank had split! Apparently this is a common fault. The breather blocks to the tank and as the car uses fuel, the tank gets sucked in. when you stop, air leaks back in the tank regains shape. Constantly doing this causes the tank to stress fracture, hence his leak. My advice with this one is to drill a small hole in the filler cap to vent the tank. As it was, that cost him £700 as a new tank is a pig to fit...
He bought it at 110,000 miles and put another 20,000 on it, then the auto box started playing up (should have changed the auto oil and filter!!) so the bill for that was £1500. Add into that a couple of services and a set of tyres and you can see its not cheap motoring!
However, If you buy the right car, and can do a bit yourself, they can be great cars!
However, Like any older "quality" car they can be a money pit in terms of maintenance. they may be cheap to buy but they still have £50k type running costs! I took ages to find a nice example, many I looked at had numerous faults that could have cost a fortune to fix. I read a magazine article a while ago about these cars, and their advice was to buy on condition, not age as the newest E38 is now 10 years old. A perfect 1996 car that has all the big bits done is better financially than a 2001 sport that has loads of potential big bills!
One of my mates bought a 2000 sport last year (he had always admired my E38...)but it was a complete disaster! He spent £700 having the brakes and suspension done, then it started overheating so he had a new radiator, water pump and thermostat... another £300. Then he filled the car with fuel one day and he noticed fuel running out. The fuel tank had split! Apparently this is a common fault. The breather blocks to the tank and as the car uses fuel, the tank gets sucked in. when you stop, air leaks back in the tank regains shape. Constantly doing this causes the tank to stress fracture, hence his leak. My advice with this one is to drill a small hole in the filler cap to vent the tank. As it was, that cost him £700 as a new tank is a pig to fit...
He bought it at 110,000 miles and put another 20,000 on it, then the auto box started playing up (should have changed the auto oil and filter!!) so the bill for that was £1500. Add into that a couple of services and a set of tyres and you can see its not cheap motoring!
However, If you buy the right car, and can do a bit yourself, they can be great cars!
To be honest my E39 has had all the common faults rectified. Gearbox is on only 30k (before I owned it, that was nearly £3k), new suspension all round, entirely new cooling system. I know I got one of the nicer pre face lift E39's, especially as mine is a shadowline trim model. If I get an E38 I could get all the bills over again. Got some thinking to do I guess.
sparks_E39 said:
To be honest my E39 has had all the common faults rectified. Gearbox is on only 30k (before I owned it, that was nearly £3k), new suspension all round, entirely new cooling system. I know I got one of the nicer pre face lift E39's, especially as mine is a shadowline trim model. If I get an E38 I could get all the bills over again. Got some thinking to do I guess.
Running old premium cars always involves a bit of luck. Good ones run forever, bad ones can seriously dent your bank balance.Better the devil you know IMO.
I did exactly this 2 months ago.
I had a E39 528i Sport with 128k on it, it drove lovely and looked it too (Ive owned 4 E39s).
I then saw a 728i Sport advertised with only 52k all the paperwork and in immaculate condition, I went to see it and just could not come away without it.
It was the right car with the right owners (owned for last 5 years), the right paperwork, the right condition and the right feel.
The drive is excellent, it can still be thrown into corners like the e39 (maybe as its the sport with the M-tec suspension) and its as fast as the E39 when needed, it cruises effortlessly.
I got home advertised the E39 and it sold that night.
I love my E38 and the extra legroom is a bonus with the kids, it goes and handles better than a car of its size has any right too.
The best advice is to do all the usual checks, pay attention to suspension parts and brakes as these are known to wear on the E38 due to the additional weight etc..make sure everything works inside and buy with your head. If something doesnt feel right or sound right then it probably isnt. Buy a car that has been looked after and you should not go wrong, they are fantastic value for money and i cannot think of another car that gives so much for so little.
If you DIY they dont have to cost the earth to maintain either and in reality should be no different to a similar E39 to look after.
I had a E39 528i Sport with 128k on it, it drove lovely and looked it too (Ive owned 4 E39s).
I then saw a 728i Sport advertised with only 52k all the paperwork and in immaculate condition, I went to see it and just could not come away without it.
It was the right car with the right owners (owned for last 5 years), the right paperwork, the right condition and the right feel.
The drive is excellent, it can still be thrown into corners like the e39 (maybe as its the sport with the M-tec suspension) and its as fast as the E39 when needed, it cruises effortlessly.
I got home advertised the E39 and it sold that night.
I love my E38 and the extra legroom is a bonus with the kids, it goes and handles better than a car of its size has any right too.
The best advice is to do all the usual checks, pay attention to suspension parts and brakes as these are known to wear on the E38 due to the additional weight etc..make sure everything works inside and buy with your head. If something doesnt feel right or sound right then it probably isnt. Buy a car that has been looked after and you should not go wrong, they are fantastic value for money and i cannot think of another car that gives so much for so little.
If you DIY they dont have to cost the earth to maintain either and in reality should be no different to a similar E39 to look after.
)Fox- said:
Can't see what it offers above an E39 that is worth the hassle involved in changing. The 728i especially is biblically slow and only just manages to haul itself to 60 in under 10 seconds.
To some people (Myself included), the E38 is a better looking car than the E39.Also, a lot of people are put off buying a 7 series due to its size and higher running costs (be they real or perceived), so there's a more limited market for them, unlike a 5 series. This means that you can usually pick up a newer 7 series with more "toys" on it than an equivalent 5 series for the same money.
As for the 728i being "biblically slow", When new it's 0-100Kmh figures were:8.6secs(Manual); 9.6secs (Auto), which is not that bad for a car of it's size and doesn't make it a bad car. Speed is not the No.1 priority for everyone. Some people are happy enough to just potter along at a steady rate so a bigger engine and it's additional running costs makes no sense.
If your daily journey involves cruising along steadily on motorways, where's the real advantage in having a bigger engine?. Is a 740i really going to feel any better than a 728i when both are doing a steady 70mph?, I doubt the difference would be that noticeable.
Stating that the 728i is "biblically slow" is a bit like stating that the 740i doesn't handle as well as an M3!. It wasn't designed for speed, it was designed for cruising along motorways/autobahns whilst fitting into a lower tax band (especially in Germany).
I seem to recall the Autocar magazine being very impressed with the 728i when it came out, especially with it's fuel economy (around 25mpg on the combined cycle I believe).
For those interested in the E38 take a look here: http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/bmw_e38_buying_guide....
What's not to like?.
4rephill said:
This means that you can usually pick up a newer 7 series with more "toys" on it than an equivalent 5 series for the same money.
But this is cancelled out by the fact the 7 Series is an older design which was removed from production in late 2001 and never received the upgrade to the M54 engines. A 2001 7 Series might be newer than an 2000/X 5 Series but only in terms of the perspex on the plate - it'll have an older engine in it, for example.[quote]As for the 728i being "biblically slow", When new it's 0-100Kmh figures were:8.6secs(Manual); 9.6secs (Auto), which is not that bad for a car of it's size and doesn't make it a bad car.
[quote]I seem to recall the Autocar magazine being very impressed with the 728i when it came out, especially with it's fuel economy (around 25mpg on the combined cycle I believe).
But if you already have an E39, I don't see what the E38 offers which justifies the hassle involved in changing. The E39 is a more modern car with a better engine range, better fuel economy, better handling, better performance, an interior thats almost as good and lets face it, it's no Lotus Elise, so its hardly a chore on the Motorway, either?
I dont think its worth chopping one in for a £3k E38.
'I have £3k, do I buy an E38 or an E39' is of course a totally different question for which there may be a different answer.
Six years later I am without a car that I can call mine. The aforementioned 528i was sold years ago to make way for a 530i Sport.
I sold my 530i a few months ago as it was getting a bit hefty to run as my situation changed. Now I am unexpectedly back in a better situation and don't regret the sale of the 530i, but am in the position where I would like to try an E38, probably a 728i, but the "unloved" 735i comes up frequently at frankly criminally low prices, presumably as it's awkwardly not as good as a 740 but it costs the same to run... I don't really care about all that. I think a 735i may be a good bet? Are the fuel tanks still a £1000 fix? Pretty much got everything else covered I think, as costs I'm assured are pretty much in line with an E39. I don't care if it's a Sport or not, if it has 16's or 18's... if it's an early 1996 or late 2001, I want a good one, that's all.
Well obviously a 750il would be lovely, but it scares me. This would not be my main mode of transport, I have use of a car but I don't own it. This would be purely for me to enjoy as and when.
I sold my 530i a few months ago as it was getting a bit hefty to run as my situation changed. Now I am unexpectedly back in a better situation and don't regret the sale of the 530i, but am in the position where I would like to try an E38, probably a 728i, but the "unloved" 735i comes up frequently at frankly criminally low prices, presumably as it's awkwardly not as good as a 740 but it costs the same to run... I don't really care about all that. I think a 735i may be a good bet? Are the fuel tanks still a £1000 fix? Pretty much got everything else covered I think, as costs I'm assured are pretty much in line with an E39. I don't care if it's a Sport or not, if it has 16's or 18's... if it's an early 1996 or late 2001, I want a good one, that's all.
Well obviously a 750il would be lovely, but it scares me. This would not be my main mode of transport, I have use of a car but I don't own it. This would be purely for me to enjoy as and when.
Edited by sparks_E39 on Tuesday 18th October 16:46
I've just got rid of a tired 2001 E39 (110k miles) for an E63. As well as a suspension refresh needed I found that there were a number of electrical issues which were mainly dealer only fixes or do without - life expired integral battery on the alarm, faulty PDC sensors and sounders and both keys no longer worked remotely. None of these killed the car, and I would be the first to admit I fancied a change, but I think you need to look long and hard at the electrical elements of cars of the E38 / E39 generation.
Dodge Dave said:
I did exactly this 2 months ago.
I had a E39 528i Sport with 128k on it, it drove lovely and looked it too (Ive owned 4 E39s).
I then saw a 728i Sport advertised with only 52k all the paperwork and in immaculate condition, I went to see it and just could not come away without it.
It was the right car with the right owners (owned for last 5 years), the right paperwork, the right condition and the right feel.
The drive is excellent, it can still be thrown into corners like the e39 (maybe as its the sport with the M-tec suspension) and its as fast as the E39 when needed, it cruises effortlessly.
I got home advertised the E39 and it sold that night.
I love my E38 and the extra legroom is a bonus with the kids, it goes and handles better than a car of its size has any right too.
The best advice is to do all the usual checks, pay attention to suspension parts and brakes as these are known to wear on the E38 due to the additional weight etc..make sure everything works inside and buy with your head. If something doesnt feel right or sound right then it probably isnt. Buy a car that has been looked after and you should not go wrong, they are fantastic value for money and i cannot think of another car that gives so much for so little.
If you DIY they dont have to cost the earth to maintain either and in reality should be no different to a similar E39 to look after.
This was the way to go about it - replacing a high mileage car for one with very low miles and the right sort of owner. E39's and E38's are now firmly in banger territory, but there will always be a low mileage 'no expense spared' cream puff out there. Swapping one 17 year old high mileage BMW for another one is not the way to do it because you may well be exchanging your proven and reliable car for a pile of sI had a E39 528i Sport with 128k on it, it drove lovely and looked it too (Ive owned 4 E39s).
I then saw a 728i Sport advertised with only 52k all the paperwork and in immaculate condition, I went to see it and just could not come away without it.
It was the right car with the right owners (owned for last 5 years), the right paperwork, the right condition and the right feel.
The drive is excellent, it can still be thrown into corners like the e39 (maybe as its the sport with the M-tec suspension) and its as fast as the E39 when needed, it cruises effortlessly.
I got home advertised the E39 and it sold that night.
I love my E38 and the extra legroom is a bonus with the kids, it goes and handles better than a car of its size has any right too.
The best advice is to do all the usual checks, pay attention to suspension parts and brakes as these are known to wear on the E38 due to the additional weight etc..make sure everything works inside and buy with your head. If something doesnt feel right or sound right then it probably isnt. Buy a car that has been looked after and you should not go wrong, they are fantastic value for money and i cannot think of another car that gives so much for so little.
If you DIY they dont have to cost the earth to maintain either and in reality should be no different to a similar E39 to look after.
t.The E38 is a nicer car - better looking (the E39 was never a styling prize, esp. after the E34), better ride and the kind of 'feel good' that only a big car brings. The technology between the two cars is very similar anyway.
Fuel tank definitely DIYable if you're so inclined, hardest bit is dropping the exhaust. Wouldn't let that put me off if a new tank could be sourced at a reasonable price.
Kind of wish I'd bought an e38 rather than an e39, but at the time I couldn't get insured on a V8 due to never having a RWD car before.
Kind of wish I'd bought an e38 rather than an e39, but at the time I couldn't get insured on a V8 due to never having a RWD car before.
iSore said:
This was the way to go about it - replacing a high mileage car for one with very low miles and the right sort of owner. E39's and E38's are now firmly in banger territory, but there will always be a low mileage 'no expense spared' cream puff out there. Swapping one 17 year old high mileage BMW for another one is not the way to do it because you may well be exchanging your proven and reliable car for a pile of st.
The E38 is a nicer car - better looking (the E39 was never a styling prize, esp. after the E34), better ride and the kind of 'feel good' that only a big car brings. The technology between the two cars is very similar anyway.
I'm not replacing anything as I don't have anything, the 530i is gone. I'd agree the E38 is better looking, finding a good one will be a challenge I'm sure. I'm not put off by high mileage at all. t.The E38 is a nicer car - better looking (the E39 was never a styling prize, esp. after the E34), better ride and the kind of 'feel good' that only a big car brings. The technology between the two cars is very similar anyway.
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