So what is the entitlement to an M badge
Discussion
There’s been various posting here about people falsely badgeing non M’s as M’s, which I think just makes them look like idiots, so to start a discussion, being old school I tend towards M cars had to be made in the ‘M factory; so nothing after an E34 is really an M, and that BMW badgeing one series as an M is nothing but debasing the value of the brand. I can be persuaded that the top of the range E36, 46, 39 etc and the V10’s deserves the badge even if not put together by Motor sport, but things like 135M’s and 325 M sport and a M badge on any D are a joke.
Does anyone else remember BMW telling Mercedes that they were undermining the value of their brand with the A class and that BMW would never follow suit? and now we have one series D's
It's pretty much up to BMW to decide which models are 'M' designated, whether they are made in a purpose built installation or the main production line is a matter of economics and logisitics. Various bits of the 'M' componentry find their way onto lesser models as M sport options. BMW have in the past decided that this warrants the placement of an 'M' badge. This represents an affront to some owners of 'real' M cars, but is it really that important? Sure there will be some who would like to attract the perceived kudos that comes with 'M' ownership by falsely badging their cars however most BMW owners can spot the difference and non BMW onwers probably don't know anyway.
Dave
Dave
For me the very minimum is a unique engine, not used elsewhere in the line-up. And because of this, the X5/X6 M and the forthcoming F10 M5 and new M6, using the generic 4.4 litre twin-turbo in a different tune, is a sad departure from what used to define the "M" brand.
Whether or not "M" cars have to be NA only is another debate...
Whether or not "M" cars have to be NA only is another debate...
Since the M cars chassis are now made on the regular production line, it really comes down to the engine.
All M cars have hand built engines which are built by the M division, whereas the M Sport versions are just standard production cars with wheels, suspension and trim upgrades.
Also if you look under the bonnet at the name plaque regular cars have BMW AG Munich, whereas M cars have BMW M GMBH.
All M cars have hand built engines which are built by the M division, whereas the M Sport versions are just standard production cars with wheels, suspension and trim upgrades.
Also if you look under the bonnet at the name plaque regular cars have BMW AG Munich, whereas M cars have BMW M GMBH.
I see an M car as a car developed by the M Division from scratch and badged by the manufacturer as an M car, although as you say they are no longer built by M Division.
M Sport BMW's do not have any exterior M badging. The suspension has been set up by the M division using stock parts to enhance grip levels, making them feel a bit sportier. There are no bespoke parts and the engines are not touched by M Division. It's just a way of widening the appeal for BMW.
Aftermarket M badges crack me up, why badge your car to be something it's not? Do these people not realise the ridicule they get?
M Sport BMW's do not have any exterior M badging. The suspension has been set up by the M division using stock parts to enhance grip levels, making them feel a bit sportier. There are no bespoke parts and the engines are not touched by M Division. It's just a way of widening the appeal for BMW.
Aftermarket M badges crack me up, why badge your car to be something it's not? Do these people not realise the ridicule they get?
Big E 118 said:
M Sport BMW's do not have any exterior M badging.
Yes they do. All current M Sport BMW's have 4 exterior M badges - one on each alloy wheel.Previously, the 97-99 E36 328i Sport, 318iS and 318Ti had exterior M badging on the driver and passenger door rubbing strips, as did all prefacelift E39 Sport models. E36 models with rear deck spoilers containing brakelights also had M badges on these.
There are 'bespoke' parts - much of the suspension fitted to Sport and later M Sport models were unique to those models and not found on SE specification cars. The bodykit fitted to an E39 'Sport' model was identical to that fitted to the M5 - only the lower front grille (and wingmirrors) differed.
In addition, the E28 and E24(?) M535i even had M in its name despite the fact the changes over the standard 535i are exactly the same as the changes you'd find on a 1995 328i Sport over a standard 328i. This predated both the M3 and the M5.
It never ceases to amaze me how much assumption, vitriol and misinformation there is when this subject is discussed. You would hope people would educate themselves on a bit of BMW's model history before declaring anything M that isn't fixed to an M3 is some sort of blasphemy. It's BMW's brand, they can do thus as they please with it.
M is to S-Line as M3/M5 is to RS4/RS6. It's pretty much that simple - although the fact they couldnt call the Z3 or Z4 the MZ3 or MZ4 does cloud the issue a bit.
Edited by Fox- on Monday 8th November 17:43
OK its BMW brand, agreed but a brand is only as good as the customer thinks it is, are BMW doing damage to the brand? and if you read my OP on the comments they made re the A series are they hypocrits with the 1? anwer is I suppose that times and markets move on and BMW have had to change, but not so long ago they stated that they would never make a A series competitor as it would damage their image.
I agree sticking an M badge on the back of your 330/318/530/550/123 etc makes you look a t**t, no arguments from me there.
But having driven an SE and M Sport E60 & E46 the differences between the cars is massive.
The M Sport deserves the moniker of being an 'M Sport' but it’s no M5 and as such isn’t produced with a M on the boot.
In this modern world are you really suggesting BMW slash there potential market by only having about 7 cars with a 'M' in their title out of a product range that has 50+ vehicles. The M Sport and SE are different cars, I think it’s a brilliant decision offering customers most of the M luxuries but without a 12mpg engine.
Back when BMW was a luxury brand, it could demand such titles.
But having driven an SE and M Sport E60 & E46 the differences between the cars is massive.
The M Sport deserves the moniker of being an 'M Sport' but it’s no M5 and as such isn’t produced with a M on the boot.
In this modern world are you really suggesting BMW slash there potential market by only having about 7 cars with a 'M' in their title out of a product range that has 50+ vehicles. The M Sport and SE are different cars, I think it’s a brilliant decision offering customers most of the M luxuries but without a 12mpg engine.
Back when BMW was a luxury brand, it could demand such titles.
Edited by TackleburyUk on Tuesday 9th November 07:30
Berw said:
OK its BMW brand, agreed but a brand is only as good as the customer thinks it is, are BMW doing damage to the brand?
Did you know that an M badged 'Sport' car with the same engine as the rest of the range predates the first ever M5? Thats right - the M535i, basically just a 535i Sport (Same changes you'll find between say a 328i and a 328i Sport) came out BEFORE the first M5.So if such things devalue the brand, surely it was devalued before the first ever M powered saloon?
Fox- said:
Berw said:
OK its BMW brand, agreed but a brand is only as good as the customer thinks it is, are BMW doing damage to the brand?
Did you know that an M badged 'Sport' car with the same engine as the rest of the range predates the first ever M5? Thats right - the M535i, basically just a 535i Sport (Same changes you'll find between say a 328i and a 328i Sport) came out BEFORE the first M5.So if such things devalue the brand, surely it was devalued before the first ever M powered saloon?
edc said:
Fox- said:
Berw said:
OK its BMW brand, agreed but a brand is only as good as the customer thinks it is, are BMW doing damage to the brand?
Did you know that an M badged 'Sport' car with the same engine as the rest of the range predates the first ever M5? Thats right - the M535i, basically just a 535i Sport (Same changes you'll find between say a 328i and a 328i Sport) came out BEFORE the first M5.So if such things devalue the brand, surely it was devalued before the first ever M powered saloon?
Another point for you - is it not true to a certain extent that the M power cars exist as halo models for the rest of the range? Bob would love an M3 but he can't afford one. But if he sells enough carpets he can have a 320d M Sport! So he orders one instead of an Audi.....
Without M Sport models selling like hot cakes would BMW be able to justify the cost of producing the real things?
And to put a fly in everyones ointment, how about the E31 850CSi, a car with a unique engine, badged "M" Power by the factory, with a proper "M" chassis (full floating brakes from the M5, rear wheel steering, Bilstein struts, special coil springs, "M" mirrors and bodykit (also fitted to later Sports), body bracing and recalibrated, faster steering) but never externally badged as an "M" car because BMW were planning an M8 that never materialised.
8Tech
8Tech
andy665 said:
My E36 328i Sport came with M badged side rubbing strips from the factory, I have replaced them with standard strips - its not an M car and does not need or deserve the M badge
It is not an M3, which is why it isn't badged M3.I do wish people could break the link they have between M and M3.
I have been to Garching several times and been inside 'parts' of the facility.
The first thing to strike me is how tiny it is. It sits on an industrial estate and is no bigger than the other medium size companies that surround it. To give you an idea The staff restaurant where we had lunch is tiny it probabaly sat no more than 50-70 people. There would be no capacity at all to produce M cars in any sort of quantity.
The engineers at M are very specialized and are able to do any work that BMW recquire of a 'bespoke' nature. BMW Individual is also at Garching.
Security as you can imagine is very tight as you can imagine, but if I can summise. If it wears an M Sport badge M had a hand in the ride and handling, done by the Garching engineers.
The first thing to strike me is how tiny it is. It sits on an industrial estate and is no bigger than the other medium size companies that surround it. To give you an idea The staff restaurant where we had lunch is tiny it probabaly sat no more than 50-70 people. There would be no capacity at all to produce M cars in any sort of quantity.
The engineers at M are very specialized and are able to do any work that BMW recquire of a 'bespoke' nature. BMW Individual is also at Garching.
Security as you can imagine is very tight as you can imagine, but if I can summise. If it wears an M Sport badge M had a hand in the ride and handling, done by the Garching engineers.
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