So what is the entitlement to an M badge

[foilist]

8Tech said:

And to put a fly in everyones ointment, how about the E31 850CSi, a car with a unique engine, badged "M" Power by the factory, with a proper "M" chassis (full floating brakes from the M5, rear wheel steering, Bilstein struts, special coil springs, "M" mirrors and bodykit (also fitted to later Sports), body bracing and recalibrated, faster steering) but never externally badged as an "M" car because BMW were planning an M8 that never materialised.

Or the E24 M635CSi: different engine (from the M1), different drive train, different suspension and brakes to the standard 635; badged as M635 in Europe but as M6 in North America... or the South African M7 that never was: the 745i from the early 80's wasn't available in SA so the local importer dropped the Motorsport M88 engine from the M1 into it. It wasn't badged as an M7, but it seems to fit the rules for an M Power car...

So where does that leave the "M Power = The best. Badged ///M3, ///M5, etc; M Sport = The rest. Badged ///M"? Personally I think you should leave the badges as BMW say, and accept that there are a few anomalies.

[Beardy10]

andy665 said:

My E36 328i Sport came with M badged side rubbing strips from the factory, I have replaced them with standard strips - its not an M car and does not need or deserve the M badge

The first ever "M Sport" car BMW made IIRC....I picked mine up new in 1996, it was a great car. I traded it in for an E36 M3 the next year which whilst it was obviously quicker I didn't think worked as well as an overall package as the 328i.

Edited by Beardy10 on Saturday 20th November 14:09

[Mr Dave]

What really annoys me is people badging up cars that dont need it.

A fully specced up 540i sport E39 is a fine car in its own right, no need to stick an M badge on the arse of it.

Dont call it an M5 replica when you try to sell it either.

[jw golf mk4]

Fox- said:

M Power = The best. Badged ///M3, ///M5, etc
M Sport = The rest. Badged ///M

Thats what BMW say, and they are in charge.

what makes my blood boil is seeing a barried E36 316 with M badges plastered all over it

[jw golf mk4]

Mr Dave said:

What really annoys me is people badging up cars that dont need it.

A fully specced up 540i sport E39 is a fine car in its own right, no need to stick an M badge on the arse of it.

Dont call it an M5 replica when you try to sell it either.

M5 replica

[cushT]

andy665 said:

My E36 328i Sport came with M badged side rubbing strips from the factory, I have replaced them with standard strips - its not an M car and does not need or deserve the M badge

A little M on the side is hardly detrimental is it? The M mouldings are much more attractive than the thick rubber items on older model e36.

It amuses me how much pain a bit of badging causes!

[Wills2]

Fox- said:

Big E 118 said:

M Sport BMW's do not have any exterior M badging.

In addition, the E28 and E12 M535i even had M in its name despite the fact the changes over the standard 535i are exactly the same as the changes you'd find on a 1995 328i Sport over a standard 328i. This predated both the M3 and the M5.

Edited by Fox- on Monday 8th November 17:43

EFA...Although the e12 and e28 M535's had different engines with the e12 sharing its with the 635csi.

They really are the start of the M performance saloon story and as such shouldn't be compared to todays 525d M sports....

[Fox-]

Wills2 said:

Fox- said:

Big E 118 said:

M Sport BMW's do not have any exterior M badging.

In addition, the E28 and E12 M535i even had M in its name despite the fact the changes over the standard 535i are exactly the same as the changes you'd find on a 1995 328i Sport over a standard 328i. This predated both the M3 and the M5.

Edited by Fox- on Monday 8th November 17:43

EFA...Although the e12 and e28 M535's had different engines with the e12 sharing its with the 635csi.

They really are the start of the M performance saloon story and as such shouldn't be compared to todays 525d M sports....

Are you sure, I'm pretty sure the engine in at least the E28 M535i was the same as you'd find in a conventional 535i and not any more powerful?

[E24man]

Fox- said:

Wills2 said:

Fox- said:

Big E 118 said:

M Sport BMW's do not have any exterior M badging.

In addition, the E28 and E12 M535i even had M in its name despite the fact the changes over the standard 535i are exactly the same as the changes you'd find on a 1995 328i Sport over a standard 328i. This predated both the M3 and the M5.

Edited by Fox- on Monday 8th November 17:43

EFA...Although the e12 and e28 M535's had different engines with the e12 sharing its with the 635csi.

They really are the start of the M performance saloon story and as such shouldn't be compared to todays 525d M sports....

Are you sure, I'm pretty sure the engine in at least the E28 M535i was the same as you'd find in a conventional 535i and not any more powerful?

The E12 M535i was the top of the range as there was no E12 535i; it did share the same engine, brakes and suspension as the E12/E24 635CSi.

The E28 535i and M535i shared the same brakes and engine but the M535i had different suspension . The M535i suspension was identical to the E24/E28 635CSi as was the brakes and engine.

The E28 M5 and E24 M635CSi had identical engines, suspension, gearboxes, differential and brakes but all these items were all completely different from the similar aged M535i and 635CSi models.

[Fox-]

E24man said:

The E12 M535i was the top of the range as there was no E12 535i; it did share the same engine, brakes and suspension as the E12/E24 635CSi.

The E28 535i and M535i shared the same brakes and engine but the M535i had different suspension . The M535i suspension was identical to the E24/E28 635CSi as was the brakes and engine.

As I suspected - so the difference between an E28 535i is the same as the difference between a 95 328i and a 328i Sport - same engine but different suspension etc..

Infact thats pretty much the difference between an SE and an M Sport across the range - same engine but different suspension, bodystyling, etc. I only picked the 95 328i out as it had an LSD and I couldnt be bothered with the 'Yea but the M535i had an LSD so there' comments

So in reality that BMW have been M badging cars with the same engines as the rest of the range since before most of us could drive.


Yet we sit on the internet and cry about it like its some sort of crime?

[Scraggles]

thought the M badge was short for Muppet

[Wills2]

Fox- said:

Wills2 said:

Fox- said:

Big E 118 said:

M Sport BMW's do not have any exterior M badging.

In addition, the E28 and E12 M535i even had M in its name despite the fact the changes over the standard 535i are exactly the same as the changes you'd find on a 1995 328i Sport over a standard 328i. This predated both the M3 and the M5.

Edited by Fox- on Monday 8th November 17:43

EFA...Although the e12 and e28 M535's had different engines with the e12 sharing its with the 635csi.

They really are the start of the M performance saloon story and as such shouldn't be compared to todays 525d M sports....

Are you sure, I'm pretty sure the engine in at least the E28 M535i was the same as you'd find in a conventional 535i and not any more powerful?

I meant they had different engines to each other....see my correction of your e28 and e24 to e12 and e28. Yes the e28 M535 had the same engine as the e28 535.

But it is my contention that they cannot be put into the same boat as todays "Msports" esp the e12 M535.

Edited by Wills2 on Sunday 21st November 14:36

Edited by Wills2 on Sunday 21st November 14:36

[jw golf mk4]

Scraggles said:

thought the M badge was short for Muppet

At least for some of the clowns that drive them!

[Wills2]

jw golf mk4 said:

Scraggles said:

thought the M badge was short for Muppet

At least for some of the clowns that drive them!

Unlike the golf TDI brigade.

[jw golf mk4]

Wills2 said:

jw golf mk4 said:

Scraggles said:

thought the M badge was short for Muppet

At least for some of the clowns that drive them!

Unlike the golf TDI brigade.

Exactly

[Fox-]

Wills2 said:

Yes the e28 M535 had the same engine as the e28 535.

But it is my contention that they cannot be put into the same boat as todays "Msports" esp the e12 M535.

So what about the E28 M535 was different to the situation with, say, an E39 530i Sport or an E60 535d M Sport?

[samyalson]

Fox- said:

M Power = The best. Badged ///M3, ///M5, etc
M Sport = The rest. Badged ///M

Thats what BMW say, and they are in charge.

Yes that's right....they are in charge of what YOU think

[chr15b]

That's some thread resurrection

[Paul S4]

I have an E36 318iS, and the factory spec sheet lists a few 'M Sport' options; ie M sport package, M Sport Suspension, M steering wheel.

It also has the small M badges on the side rub strips; however, personally I would rather it did not..in fact I changed the OEM spoiler bootlid for a standard one.
I would much rather that the car looks more understated.
Mechanically it has a few subtle upgrades like a remap and a Milltek exhaust
The expression Q-car comes to mind.

[4rephill]

Paul S4 said:

I have an E36 318iS, and the factory spec sheet lists a few 'M Sport' options; ie M sport package, M Sport Suspension, M steering wheel.

It also has the small M badges on the side rub strips; however, personally I would rather it did not..in fact I changed the OEM spoiler bootlid for a standard one.
I would much rather that the car looks more understated.
Mechanically it has a few subtle upgrades like a remap and a Milltek exhaust
The expression Q-car comes to mind.

An E36 318iS with the rear spoiler removed, a remap and a sports exhaust is not really a Q-car, it's just a slightly modified car.

A standard looking E36 318i (not even an iS model), with full ///M3 or ///M5 running gear and suspension/brakes on the other hand, would be a proper Q-car (even more so if an ///M v8 or V10 has been shoehorned into it!).

As for:

samyalson said:

Fox- said:

M Power = The best. Badged ///M3, ///M5, etc
M Sport = The rest. Badged ///M

Thats what BMW say, and they are in charge.

Yes that's right....they are in charge of what YOU think

Whether you like it or not, Fox's explanation of how BMW use their ///M badges is exactly correct.

It's a marketing tool that they use expertly to give their model ranges a defined hierarchy (And it obviously works as both Audi and Mercedes have taken to using a similar system).