RE: PH2 Tested: Ducati Diavel
Discussion
BlackPrince said:
Do it. Soo much more fun commuting on a bike (at least when its not cold and rainy and even then...) than it is on the train or in a car imo, esp through really bad traffic.
And, most fatal bike accidents are single-vehicle accidents so its ultimately up to you the rider, tho admittedly most bike injuries involve a 2nd vehicle.
RE: other people, you learn to anticipate and even predict their movements. I was with a non-biker mate in his BMW recently and he almost had an incident when a woman in a Laguna moved into our lane and he got rather angry and flipped her off. I predicted that the Laguna would move into our lane based on her speed, lane posn etc. This has happened a few times, and so you get a sense of what types of cars, drivers to avoid, and also when you should be cautious (if there is empty space, some car or pedestrian will fill it, so I always slow down where filtering past a large gap in traffic)
I think most accidents w/ other vehicles are reasonably predictable, short of someone deliberately driving straight into you, and I don't think thats a concern as much as your own addiction to adrenaline and doing inappropriate speeds and then crashing.
And, helmets, bike gear and modern medicine is advanced enough now that you can expect not to die on a bike, you might break an arm but that can be avoided as well to a large extent imo.
On a bike you are much more exposed and you do have to develop the skills noted above. The question is, whether you survive long enough (or keep biking long enough) to develop those skills. And, most fatal bike accidents are single-vehicle accidents so its ultimately up to you the rider, tho admittedly most bike injuries involve a 2nd vehicle.
RE: other people, you learn to anticipate and even predict their movements. I was with a non-biker mate in his BMW recently and he almost had an incident when a woman in a Laguna moved into our lane and he got rather angry and flipped her off. I predicted that the Laguna would move into our lane based on her speed, lane posn etc. This has happened a few times, and so you get a sense of what types of cars, drivers to avoid, and also when you should be cautious (if there is empty space, some car or pedestrian will fill it, so I always slow down where filtering past a large gap in traffic)
I think most accidents w/ other vehicles are reasonably predictable, short of someone deliberately driving straight into you, and I don't think thats a concern as much as your own addiction to adrenaline and doing inappropriate speeds and then crashing.
And, helmets, bike gear and modern medicine is advanced enough now that you can expect not to die on a bike, you might break an arm but that can be avoided as well to a large extent imo.
I disagree with the last sentence. Bike gear and medicine are great but they are not miracle cures: if you come off and hit a solid object you are in trouble.
I think that it comes down to the following: people make mistakes. In a car such mistakes often don't have bad consequences but IMHO bikes are pretty unforgiving and combined with the performance on offer it is easy to get into trouble. I think that potential bikers should examine themselves: are they risk takers? Do they always drive defensively, leaving a good margin for error? If so they might make a good transition to bikers. Anyone who has a history of near misses or crashes in cars is probably pushing their luck if they move to bikes.
Schnellmann said:
On a bike you are much more exposed and you do have to develop the skills noted above. The question is, whether you survive long enough (or keep biking long enough) to develop those skills.
I disagree with the last sentence. Bike gear and medicine are great but they are not miracle cures: if you come off and hit a solid object you are in trouble.
I think that it comes down to the following: people make mistakes. In a car such mistakes often don't have bad consequences but IMHO bikes are pretty unforgiving and combined with the performance on offer it is easy to get into trouble. I think that potential bikers should examine themselves: are they risk takers? Do they always drive defensively, leaving a good margin for error? If so they might make a good transition to bikers. Anyone who has a history of near misses or crashes in cars is probably pushing their luck if they move to bikes.
My history in a car is verging on abysmal but on a bike I'm meticulous about safety, even tho I do speed basically all the time, and I will never not filter. Unless you have the fearless spirit of a TT rider, no matter how fearless you feel in a car or how many acts of daring-do you engage in, I don't think most people are going to go nearly as mental on a bike as they do in a car for the first year at least simply because you are aware of the very serious consequences if you do crash. I disagree with the last sentence. Bike gear and medicine are great but they are not miracle cures: if you come off and hit a solid object you are in trouble.
I think that it comes down to the following: people make mistakes. In a car such mistakes often don't have bad consequences but IMHO bikes are pretty unforgiving and combined with the performance on offer it is easy to get into trouble. I think that potential bikers should examine themselves: are they risk takers? Do they always drive defensively, leaving a good margin for error? If so they might make a good transition to bikers. Anyone who has a history of near misses or crashes in cars is probably pushing their luck if they move to bikes.
I've been riding for 6 yrs, and started on a scooter, then a few other bikes to my Multistrada right now and I had 2 low speed accidents on my scooter, and none since. However presumably because of the psychological sense of security I get from cars, I've had about 7 accidents.
Perhaps its because I don't own a car but I ride a bike very differently to the way I drive a car and as a result I think I'm less likely to get into an accident on the bike. Of course, since I'll be traveling much faster on the bike in addition to the lack of protection, if I do have an accident, I'm fvcked basically but those are the risks and all that.
Edited by BlackPrince on Monday 16th May 14:37
The problem with bikes in traffic is a case of someone who knows he's in the right (filtering being quite legal) against someone who knows he's safe and sound and who's not looking-out for stuff like that.
End of the day, it's no consolation to have "I was in the right" written on your tombstone tho - hence why I see bikers filtering and weaving through moving traffic and think "oh dear".
Meanwhile tho - the Diavel looks rather interesting, a proper game-changer in it's segment (who'da thought that from Ducati?) BUT it sounds a bit s
t. One of the things which matter to me on a bike is that it shouldn't sound like an angry dishwasher BEFORE you spend a fortune on pipes 
End of the day, it's no consolation to have "I was in the right" written on your tombstone tho - hence why I see bikers filtering and weaving through moving traffic and think "oh dear".
Meanwhile tho - the Diavel looks rather interesting, a proper game-changer in it's segment (who'da thought that from Ducati?) BUT it sounds a bit s
t. One of the things which matter to me on a bike is that it shouldn't sound like an angry dishwasher BEFORE you spend a fortune on pipes p.s. on the topic of commuter bikes, don't fall into the trap of thinking you can combine your 'commuter' bike with something a bit rortier for the weekend eh?
Lad I worked with decided he could commute on his midlife-crisis Fireblade and it broke him, totally. He was a crumbling, hobbling shell of a man inside a week - I think if he removed his leathers, his skeleton would have just collapsed entirely
Lad I worked with decided he could commute on his midlife-crisis Fireblade and it broke him, totally. He was a crumbling, hobbling shell of a man inside a week - I think if he removed his leathers, his skeleton would have just collapsed entirely
johnpeat said:
BUT it sounds a bit st. One of the things which matter to me on a bike is that it shouldn't sound like an angry dishwasher BEFORE you spend a fortune on pipes
I have to agree with you there. A number of people are saying it sounds great, but I'm not so sure. I spent a good few quid getting the current bike to sound right. It's one of the things I'll miss.t. One of the things which matter to me on a bike is that it shouldn't sound like an angry dishwasher BEFORE you spend a fortune on pipes y2blade said:
I bet you can't wait 
Oh yes. I keep wanting to phone Ducati Aylesbury and ask "Is it here yet?". But I've waited 18 months for a car before, so I guess I'll make it.The Duke looks good, I might have to take a drive out and see one in the flesh.
I had bikes since aged 11 and my last bike was a Ducati 748 when I was 32 - my Ferrari in the garage. If I wasn't riding it I was cleaning it! I thought I was a safe rider until I woke up one day with someone calling my name. That was in Intensive Care after being given a 20% chance of pulling through. I ended up with life changing injuries - brain, back, hip, eyesight, lungs, ribs, heart, obligatory collar bone - all took a beating.
The scary thing is, I can't remember seeing a car that day, I can't remember going for the brakes or reacting in any way. The Police worked out I was doing 50mph on an unrestricted road. Unfortuately, a car had pulled across the road and parked on a grass verge and when the driver went to drive off, realised they could see nothing coming toward them without positioning their car at 90 degrees to the road with the front wheels crossing the middle of the carriageway - effectively a road block on a road I had ridden for many years and I had never seen any cars try and park there, ever. The car was effectively hidden until you were on top of it.
I still love bikes and even though I've since had some nice cars, I just can't get back that feeling, that buzz you get from a bike. I won't go back to them as firstly I can't due to the injuries (now 9 years down the line) and secondly because of the way it happened. I didn't see anything, I didn't react to anything, yet it nearly killed me.
I hope riders read this and take on board what happened to me. I considered myself one of the safest guys out there on a bike. Always expect the unexpected.
I had bikes since aged 11 and my last bike was a Ducati 748 when I was 32 - my Ferrari in the garage. If I wasn't riding it I was cleaning it! I thought I was a safe rider until I woke up one day with someone calling my name. That was in Intensive Care after being given a 20% chance of pulling through. I ended up with life changing injuries - brain, back, hip, eyesight, lungs, ribs, heart, obligatory collar bone - all took a beating.
The scary thing is, I can't remember seeing a car that day, I can't remember going for the brakes or reacting in any way. The Police worked out I was doing 50mph on an unrestricted road. Unfortuately, a car had pulled across the road and parked on a grass verge and when the driver went to drive off, realised they could see nothing coming toward them without positioning their car at 90 degrees to the road with the front wheels crossing the middle of the carriageway - effectively a road block on a road I had ridden for many years and I had never seen any cars try and park there, ever. The car was effectively hidden until you were on top of it.
I still love bikes and even though I've since had some nice cars, I just can't get back that feeling, that buzz you get from a bike. I won't go back to them as firstly I can't due to the injuries (now 9 years down the line) and secondly because of the way it happened. I didn't see anything, I didn't react to anything, yet it nearly killed me.
I hope riders read this and take on board what happened to me. I considered myself one of the safest guys out there on a bike. Always expect the unexpected.
Foggy748 said:
The Duke looks good, I might have to take a drive out and see one in the flesh.
I had bikes since aged 11 and my last bike was a Ducati 748 when I was 32 - my Ferrari in the garage. If I wasn't riding it I was cleaning it! I thought I was a safe rider until I woke up one day with someone calling my name. That was in Intensive Care after being given a 20% chance of pulling through. I ended up with life changing injuries - brain, back, hip, eyesight, lungs, ribs, heart, obligatory collar bone - all took a beating.
The scary thing is, I can't remember seeing a car that day, I can't remember going for the brakes or reacting in any way. The Police worked out I was doing 50mph on an unrestricted road. Unfortuately, a car had pulled across the road and parked on a grass verge and when the driver went to drive off, realised they could see nothing coming toward them without positioning their car at 90 degrees to the road with the front wheels crossing the middle of the carriageway - effectively a road block on a road I had ridden for many years.
I hope riders read this and take on board what happened to me. I considered myself one of the safest guys out there on a bike. Always expect the unexpected.
Sobering story. Highlights the role luck plays. My big accident was also on a 748 (I loved that bike!) I was riding down a road I knew well. Old guy in Renault 5 pulled out from the left, without indicating. Had choice of braking hard or going around him. Nothing coming the other way so decided to go past. But he turned right, without indicating, into a dirt track lane I had not noticed before. I was doing about 60. So should have suffered injuries like Foggy748 but "only" broke my leg (badly) plus broken hand. No head injury and no internal injuries. So very lucky. Leg not 100 percent but can still play tennis and ski. Always expect the unexpected is a good motto. But also be prepared for the worse. Although it was a really hot day I still went out in my one-piece leathers with armour. Not sure, but have always felt that saved my leg.I had bikes since aged 11 and my last bike was a Ducati 748 when I was 32 - my Ferrari in the garage. If I wasn't riding it I was cleaning it! I thought I was a safe rider until I woke up one day with someone calling my name. That was in Intensive Care after being given a 20% chance of pulling through. I ended up with life changing injuries - brain, back, hip, eyesight, lungs, ribs, heart, obligatory collar bone - all took a beating.
The scary thing is, I can't remember seeing a car that day, I can't remember going for the brakes or reacting in any way. The Police worked out I was doing 50mph on an unrestricted road. Unfortuately, a car had pulled across the road and parked on a grass verge and when the driver went to drive off, realised they could see nothing coming toward them without positioning their car at 90 degrees to the road with the front wheels crossing the middle of the carriageway - effectively a road block on a road I had ridden for many years.
I hope riders read this and take on board what happened to me. I considered myself one of the safest guys out there on a bike. Always expect the unexpected.
Same here. I always wore all the kit and apparently my back protector was a lifesaver!
Yeah, I loved my 748 too! Large bore Termis (with 'not for road use' etched on them, as spotted by the police when the bike was on a pallet in bits) sounded awesome! Gorgeous machine - I'd still love to have one just to look at and polish!
Yeah, I loved my 748 too! Large bore Termis (with 'not for road use' etched on them, as spotted by the police when the bike was on a pallet in bits) sounded awesome! Gorgeous machine - I'd still love to have one just to look at and polish!
That must have sounded brilliant. I didn't have mine long enough to change to Termis. Even with standard exhaust, when I went to Snetterton for a track day I had some people follow me round just to hear it!
Fulfilled an ambition last week when got to ride a Ducati again at Brands Hatch. Was an 848 of course but brought back good memories.
Fulfilled an ambition last week when got to ride a Ducati again at Brands Hatch. Was an 848 of course but brought back good memories.
SpudLink said:
I have to agree with you there. A number of people are saying it sounds great, but I'm not so sure. I spent a good few quid getting the current bike to sound right. It's one of the things I'll miss.
My old boss had his midlife crisis in the form of an SV650 which he spent a fortune on (end of the day I think he spent 75% of it's list price again on performance bits) and it looked and sounded incredible (and was a sensible choice under the circumstances - he's no street racer!!). He then decided to swap it for an SV1000 and I think he's regretted it ever since - when you spent a lot on a bike and get it 'just right' you'll never quite replace it.
The guy he sold it to sold it to someone who lives nearby and you'd regularly hear it whumping up the street and smile. I got chatting to him one day and he said he was selling it - I mentioned it to my boss and he rang up instantly but it was already gone.
Moral: Don't sell bikes unless you really hate them.
johnpeat said:
p.s. on the topic of commuter bikes, don't fall into the trap of thinking you can combine your 'commuter' bike with something a bit rortier for the weekend eh?
Lad I worked with decided he could commute on his midlife-crisis Fireblade and it broke him, totally. He was a crumbling, hobbling shell of a man inside a week - I think if he removed his leathers, his skeleton would have just collapsed entirely
Got to say, I disagree with this. My first bike was GSXR600K4, and I used it everyday for 40+ miles (weather providing) and never had any problems, mind you I was 22, so if you're struggling with a bad back, then go for something sensible.Lad I worked with decided he could commute on his midlife-crisis Fireblade and it broke him, totally. He was a crumbling, hobbling shell of a man inside a week - I think if he removed his leathers, his skeleton would have just collapsed entirely
Schnellmann said:
That must have sounded brilliant. I didn't have mine long enough to change to Termis. Even with standard exhaust, when I went to Snetterton for a track day I had some people follow me round just to hear it!
Fulfilled an ambition last week when got to ride a Ducati again at Brands Hatch. Was an 848 of course but brought back good memories.
What was the 848 like compared to the 748?Fulfilled an ambition last week when got to ride a Ducati again at Brands Hatch. Was an 848 of course but brought back good memories.
johnpeat said:
He then decided to swap it for an SV1000 and I think he's regretted it ever since - when you spent a lot on a bike and get it 'just right' you'll never quite replace it.
I keep thinking about changing my 695 monster for a 796 or 1100 monster or maybe a new multi, but with the carbon termi's and a few other bits of carbon I think i'd miss it and besides i probably only ride to 40% of what my current bike is capable... maybe an old 750ss to keep it company youl be a better ideaFoggy748 said:
What was the 848 like compared to the 748?
Unfortunately there is 12 years between riding my 748 and using the 848 on track last week so difficult to make a real comparison (also, the trouble with doing trackdays so infrequently and not riding on the road is that it takes me most of the day just getting used to riding a bike again).However, my impressions were that i) 848 felt quicker, especially coming out of the corners ii) had the same sort of feel as the 748 - very stable and lovely in the corners iii) didn't have the b**** stupid flip-up side stand of the 748 (that caught me out once...) iv) felt bigger than I remember the 748 to have been v) great looking bike, but still not sure it tops the 748/916.
If I were able to buy a bike and ride on the road I would definitely get an 848 EVO. Just more characterful than the Jap bikes (which objectively are perhaps better and certainly cheaper) and for me the 848 has plenty enough power. Just wishful thinking of course as no way I'm going back to riding on the road. But if we ever move back to the UK I might buy myself something for trackdays (but wouldn't be a nice, new 848 because of the risk of dropping it....)
Schnellmann said:
However, my impressions were that i) 848 felt quicker, especially coming out of the corners ii) had the same sort of feel as the 748 - very stable and lovely in the corners iii) didn't have the b**** stupid flip-up side stand of the 748 (that caught me out once...) iv) felt bigger than I remember the 748 to have been v) great looking bike, but still not sure it tops the 748/916.
You are correct, the 848 is (significantly) quicker than a 748, more on a par with a 996/998 and it is also bigger, at least taller but significantly lighter. The 916 series is definitely better looking though... 
Looks awesome! I think they're really cool looking bikes
As an aside, I went to where they make these http://www.evotech-performance.com/motorcycle/duca... the other day - they're really nicely made bits if you need anything! I only remembered because we were talking about the Diavel there!
As an aside, I went to where they make these http://www.evotech-performance.com/motorcycle/duca... the other day - they're really nicely made bits if you need anything! I only remembered because we were talking about the Diavel there!
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