BMW S1000RR Recall
Discussion
chrono said:
According to BMW no-ones been asked to stop riding their bikes but they "wouldn't advise" riding on track ... which is exactly what I was planning on doing. So now I have to decide whether to risk it or not. Rather than miss my trip I'm thinking about going ahead but keeping the revs down. Am I mad?
17 posts in 71 months??????? and not a single post in the last 800 days?
chrono said:
According to BMW no-ones been asked to stop riding their bikes but they "wouldn't advise" riding on track ... which is exactly what I was planning on doing. So now I have to decide whether to risk it or not. Rather than miss my trip I'm thinking about going ahead but keeping the revs down. Am I mad?
Rent instead?chrono said:
Yeh, I'll check with Nolimits on Monday to see if they have any rental bikes in Aragon. Wonder how far I'll get in getting Park Lane to fund it?
Or just use it - If the likelihood of it going is low anyway, on track is one of the few places I'd be ok to use a big that potentially has a rod issue. It can't be worse than the risk of any given 2 stroke seizing on track!podman said:
I Can't get that to come up 
S1000forums said:
I also had the call, immediate ridding ban, I got them to confirm in email
2)***** Your dealership will contact you once the parts have arrived to address the concern and will arrange for your bike to be picked up from you directly.
3)***** BMW Germany have advised that the parts should be available by the end of May.
4)***** In recognition of your inconvenience your Manufacturer warranty and roadside assist policy will be extended as a gesture of goodwill for an additional 12 months.
BMW Group Australia"
The Australian "stop riding" notifications are very interesting. Australia enacted a new lemon law last year, providing much stronger consumer protections than in the past and mirroring, to some extent, some of the US lemon laws. I'm sure that our Australian buddies on this forum know much more about this than I and can comment. It seems likely that the Australian recalled 'bikes will be off the road for at least a month, and I doubt that dealers will be able to offer an equivalent loaner, unless they have access to an undiscovered cache of Panigales The offer of an F650GS to one of the forum members is generous by the dealer, and, depending on the application, might suffice. Touring? Sure. Track days? Not so much.
It's a huge pity that many dealers will suffer from this. They're the people we deal with, not BMW. Do I care if BMW's profits are reduced by <0.1% as a result of this? No. Do I care if my dealer suffers? Absolutely. Others here seem to feel the same way.
US lemon laws on motorcycles vary considerably between states. Amazingly, the state I just moved from (California, a very consumer-protection focused state) has relatively vague lemon laws, like many states: a 'bike becomes a lemon after a "reasonable" number of repair attempts or a "reasonable" amount of downtime. "Reasonable" provides ample opportunity for the legal profession to make a living The state I moved to (North Carolina) has a very tight definition: four unsuccessful repairs within the lesser of 24 months, 24,000 miles or the warranty period or 20 business days out of service during any 12 month period during the warranty. If BMW US issues a "stop riding", then it's unlikely, but possible, that they could fix the issue within 20 business days, and it becomes a lemon.
Once again, it comes down to determinations of safety risks, brand and money. If BMW issued a US "stop riding", they would probably have to buy back some, but not all, of the 500 US 'bikes that are apparently affected. Some owners would wait and live with the recall, especially if BMW sweetened the deal. Others would be in states where the lemon laws turn this into a possibly-expensive fight. For the ones that BMW bought back, they would fix them and re-use them as loaners, demos, sold to track schools and even put onto the used market. The last one would have an interesting effect on pricing. Let's say that they ended up eating $10k on 250 'bikes (likely an overstatement) and had to sweeten 250 owners with $3k. That's a total cost of $3.25M. A drop in the bucket for BMW, but not so for the S1000RR product unit, or however BMW measures such things internally. You can be sure that SOMEONE at BMW is paid to care very much about the S1000RR brand and profitability, and (s)he is probably having a bad time right now.
Now you have to ask yourself if BMW would risk the immense brand fallout, never mind the possible legal and settlement costs, from a serious injury or death resulting from the con rod issue, versus $3.25M. Personally (just my opinion) I think not. So far, no "stop riding" in the US. This leads me to wonder if the Australian case is because of extra caution by the Australian importer, regulatory pressure or some other factor.
BMW Aus are telling people not to ride them at all2)***** Your dealership will contact you once the parts have arrived to address the concern and will arrange for your bike to be picked up from you directly.
3)***** BMW Germany have advised that the parts should be available by the end of May.
4)***** In recognition of your inconvenience your Manufacturer warranty and roadside assist policy will be extended as a gesture of goodwill for an additional 12 months.
BMW Group Australia"
The Australian "stop riding" notifications are very interesting. Australia enacted a new lemon law last year, providing much stronger consumer protections than in the past and mirroring, to some extent, some of the US lemon laws. I'm sure that our Australian buddies on this forum know much more about this than I and can comment. It seems likely that the Australian recalled 'bikes will be off the road for at least a month, and I doubt that dealers will be able to offer an equivalent loaner, unless they have access to an undiscovered cache of Panigales The offer of an F650GS to one of the forum members is generous by the dealer, and, depending on the application, might suffice. Touring? Sure. Track days? Not so much.
It's a huge pity that many dealers will suffer from this. They're the people we deal with, not BMW. Do I care if BMW's profits are reduced by <0.1% as a result of this? No. Do I care if my dealer suffers? Absolutely. Others here seem to feel the same way.
US lemon laws on motorcycles vary considerably between states. Amazingly, the state I just moved from (California, a very consumer-protection focused state) has relatively vague lemon laws, like many states: a 'bike becomes a lemon after a "reasonable" number of repair attempts or a "reasonable" amount of downtime. "Reasonable" provides ample opportunity for the legal profession to make a living The state I moved to (North Carolina) has a very tight definition: four unsuccessful repairs within the lesser of 24 months, 24,000 miles or the warranty period or 20 business days out of service during any 12 month period during the warranty. If BMW US issues a "stop riding", then it's unlikely, but possible, that they could fix the issue within 20 business days, and it becomes a lemon.
Once again, it comes down to determinations of safety risks, brand and money. If BMW issued a US "stop riding", they would probably have to buy back some, but not all, of the 500 US 'bikes that are apparently affected. Some owners would wait and live with the recall, especially if BMW sweetened the deal. Others would be in states where the lemon laws turn this into a possibly-expensive fight. For the ones that BMW bought back, they would fix them and re-use them as loaners, demos, sold to track schools and even put onto the used market. The last one would have an interesting effect on pricing. Let's say that they ended up eating $10k on 250 'bikes (likely an overstatement) and had to sweeten 250 owners with $3k. That's a total cost of $3.25M. A drop in the bucket for BMW, but not so for the S1000RR product unit, or however BMW measures such things internally. You can be sure that SOMEONE at BMW is paid to care very much about the S1000RR brand and profitability, and (s)he is probably having a bad time right now.
Now you have to ask yourself if BMW would risk the immense brand fallout, never mind the possible legal and settlement costs, from a serious injury or death resulting from the con rod issue, versus $3.25M. Personally (just my opinion) I think not. So far, no "stop riding" in the US. This leads me to wonder if the Australian case is because of extra caution by the Australian importer, regulatory pressure or some other factor.
podman said:
In a statement the mans wife said "I don't know why he's making such a fuss, I think it wonderfull.bit or an update:
BMWS1000RR said:
I called BMW customer services this morning and no new info as far as what vin's are affected. Same story just stated that bikes built from Sept. 1, 2011 thru April 10,2012. And that letters would be going out by no latter than the end of May to those whose bike is affected.
I asked the person point blank if I should ride the bike. He said it would be okay to commute on it as long as I did not get into high speeds, whatever that is. I said what about doing track days, he said do not do any type of race track riding. Also he said do not ride it at high rpm's.
So I said to him, basically you are telling me not to ride my motorcycle. What you are describing to me as far as how to ride it, well that is not the intended purpose/use of this motorcycle. I certainly did not spend $17K on a high performance motorcycle to not be able to use it for its intended purpose.
I asked one last time as to how soon the vin's would be released and realistically how long before I can use this bike. He did not know.
So I don't even want to ride it, I really can't go out and putt around on this bike. So some of you will say just go ahead and ride it, and normally I would agree but lately my luck has not been so good. I'll be the one that the motor blows and takes me out in the process.
I still really like the RR - just not liking BMW's lack of urgency for all the riders affected. But I'm not going to write them off, at least I'm going to give them a chance to make it right.
....... efficiency eh? I asked the person point blank if I should ride the bike. He said it would be okay to commute on it as long as I did not get into high speeds, whatever that is. I said what about doing track days, he said do not do any type of race track riding. Also he said do not ride it at high rpm's.
So I said to him, basically you are telling me not to ride my motorcycle. What you are describing to me as far as how to ride it, well that is not the intended purpose/use of this motorcycle. I certainly did not spend $17K on a high performance motorcycle to not be able to use it for its intended purpose.
I asked one last time as to how soon the vin's would be released and realistically how long before I can use this bike. He did not know.
So I don't even want to ride it, I really can't go out and putt around on this bike. So some of you will say just go ahead and ride it, and normally I would agree but lately my luck has not been so good. I'll be the one that the motor blows and takes me out in the process.
I still really like the RR - just not liking BMW's lack of urgency for all the riders affected. But I'm not going to write them off, at least I'm going to give them a chance to make it right.
Edited by y2blade on Tuesday 1st May 10:19
"For me, I am just going to ride and track the bike. [b]I think a loosing rod bolt will make some noise before it let's go. If it does let go, it has to go through the case, which is another hurdle. I can't worry about it that's what I gonna do. "
what planet is this guy on^^^^
Answers on a postcard to the usual address
what planet is this guy on^^^^
Answers on a postcard to the usual address
Puzzled why this is taking BMW so long to sort. Surely if it's "just" a case of inadequately torqued big end bolts why can't the garage just remove, clean, threadlock, replace and torque?
OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
MarchHare said:
Puzzled why this is taking BMW so long to sort. Surely if it's "just" a case of inadequately torqued big end bolts why can't the garage just remove, clean, threadlock, replace and torque?
OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
I was thinking the same. I thought it would be more of a dealer logistical problem with fitting in the 16 hours of labour around other BAU stuff.OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
Gasket set, bolts, threadlock, engine oil - what else is needed?
MarchHare said:
Puzzled why this is taking BMW so long to sort. Surely if it's "just" a case of inadequately torqued big end bolts why can't the garage just remove, clean, threadlock, replace and torque?
OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
In my experience I'm not surprised at all tbh OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
3doorPete said:
MarchHare said:
Puzzled why this is taking BMW so long to sort. Surely if it's "just" a case of inadequately torqued big end bolts why can't the garage just remove, clean, threadlock, replace and torque?
OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
I was thinking the same. I thought it would be more of a dealer logistical problem with fitting in the 16 hours of labour around other BAU stuff.OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
Gasket set, bolts, threadlock, engine oil - what else is needed?
blade7 said:
3doorPete said:
MarchHare said:
Puzzled why this is taking BMW so long to sort. Surely if it's "just" a case of inadequately torqued big end bolts why can't the garage just remove, clean, threadlock, replace and torque?
OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
I was thinking the same. I thought it would be more of a dealer logistical problem with fitting in the 16 hours of labour around other BAU stuff.OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
Gasket set, bolts, threadlock, engine oil - what else is needed?
New crank if it's rattled for long enough etc.
blade7 said:
If a big end cap has loosened there could be plenty of damage.
I believe their issue is this :Every case can be different, could be just torque it up, new bolt and torque it up, more serious new rod and cap, botls, new crank etc..
Next - there may be many new parts from the previous model, so there is no stock avaivalbe for the fixes needed above. So - production needed to be wound down and ramped up in other area's to cope.
The outcome for us is new bikes at dealers awaiting the parts needed.
Hooli said:
blade7 said:
3doorPete said:
MarchHare said:
Puzzled why this is taking BMW so long to sort. Surely if it's "just" a case of inadequately torqued big end bolts why can't the garage just remove, clean, threadlock, replace and torque?
OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
I was thinking the same. I thought it would be more of a dealer logistical problem with fitting in the 16 hours of labour around other BAU stuff.OK, maybe the bolts should really be replaced but how long does it take to ship a few hundred sets of bolts?
Gasket set, bolts, threadlock, engine oil - what else is needed?
New crank if it's rattled for long enough etc.
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