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pasmith73
Original Poster
197 posts
52 months
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I'm a relatively new rider; maybe covered 4,000 miles in my first summer last year, and now starting again after the winter break.
I really love being on the bike, but also get frustrated with how inept I am. I'm constantly aware of things I'm doing wrong or simply are not very good at. I can certainly recognize that I'm improving, but have a long way to go. I guess a lot is down to practice, and I also plan to take some advanced training when I have a bit more confidence.
I bought new tyres at the beginning of the year and am amazed at how big the chicken strips are. I'm not bothered about that, but it shows how rubbish at cornering I am. How can I improve? I'm trying to lean more, but it's just not happening. Am I going too slow? Do I just need more miles? Is there anything I can try and think about when cornering? I have no idea how to make the bike lean more.
One area where I think I'm going wrong is that I'm approaching the corners too fast (for my ability) which means that I have to brake fairly hard and then enter the corner off the throttle. I think it'll be better if I approach slowly, and then accelerate constantly around the corner?
I certainly don't want to corner like I'm on a track, but am just wondering how I can actively try and improve. Cheers.
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sprinter1050
10,128 posts
96 months
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pasmith73 said: One area where I think I'm going wrong is that I'm approaching the corners too fast (for my ability) which means that I have to brake fairly hard and then enter the corner off the throttle. I think it'll be better if I approach slowly, and then accelerate constantly around the corner?
I certainly don't want to corner like I'm on a track, but am just wondering how I can actively try and improve. Cheers. 4000 miles in your first year !! Blimey some people on here don't do that regularly after 10-20 years of riding  The obvious suggestions are Book a BikeSafe day with local police force. (don't bother with the inevitable "book Trackday" idea- if you don't want to & can't afford 1 to 1 tuition it probably won't help.) One thing is for sure-the slower you go the more upright/the less you need to lean... is what happens. "I think it'll be better if I approach slowly, and then accelerate constantly around the corner?"-that's probably not a bad place to start. You'll eventually learn the judgement & confidence required to approach a corner a bit quicker (& importantly smoothly so as not to upset the bike's balance (by panic braking before you tip it in) Try a road that you know with 1 or 2 bends on it &, (when it's quiet of traffic) go over it, over & over again being prepared to up the speed v. gradually. People talk about "counter steering"- you are probably doing it unconsciously anyway but be aware of how it works & just try being a bit braver on the bar push as your speed rises. Watch your line as the speed increases- a natural tendency is to run wide-to the outside of the bend- as you up the speed. This is where having the confidence to gently push forward on the "inside" bar will help you hold the line. Take your time & concentrating on a weak area is a good way to practice & improve your comfort with cornering. Glad you're not asking how to get your knee down on the road  Good luck Report back  :
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rmuss
190 posts
28 months
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pasmith73 said: I bought new tyres at the beginning of the year and am amazed at how big the chicken strips are. I'm not bothered about that, but it shows how rubbish at cornering I am. How can I improve? I'm trying to lean more, but it's just not happening. Am I going too slow? Do I just need more miles? Is there anything I can try and think about when cornering? I have no idea how to make the bike lean more.
One area where I think I'm going wrong is that I'm approaching the corners too fast (for my ability) which means that I have to brake fairly hard and then enter the corner off the throttle. I think it'll be better if I approach slowly, and then accelerate constantly around the corner?
I certainly don't want to corner like I'm on a track, but am just wondering how I can actively try and improve. Cheers. I have done about the same miles as you and passed last year also. I wouldn't worry about strips, just try and focus on gradually increasing lean angles. My strips are about 3/4 of an inch now. Don't go too fast into corners for your ability as you will brake and stand the bike up, gradually increase your speed. Try and find some good smooth roads with a consistent and predictable turns (hardest thing depending on where you live). Some bends you will find you need to be going stupidly fast to get low on the bike and it just isn't wise unless your on a track. Counter steering is very important, there is only so far leaning can take you. Look this up if you don't know what I am talking about. The general idea is, you do all your braking before the bend, as your going through the bend you slowly increase the throttle to pull you out. This can be a hard thing to master on the variety of bends. You will find you put too much throttle and have to back off at times which is a bad thing to do but you will slowly get better at knowing how much is too much. Hope this helps. P.S. Look at some vids like the following also, they might give you some idea as to body and bike positioning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt9lB-LErQ4http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cj2UNpU-B4&fea...
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MC Bodge
3,812 posts
44 months
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Relax.
Grip the bars loosely.
Look much further forward and plan ahead
Relax.
Do not wang it down the straight bits and then slam on the anchors before a corner.
Steadily roll the throttle open around bends.
Look (move your entire head and shoulders) towards exits of bends, not your front tyre.
Practice tight, low speed manoeuvring in a car park -you'll gain confidence.
Relax.
Be Smooooth with all controls
Read Twist of The Wrist 2 (not number 1)
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Steve Evil
8,510 posts
98 months
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All very good advice so far. Speaking from personal experience, TOTW2 and the cheesy DVD that goes with it were of great benefit to me.
Track Days are good for realising just how much you can push your bike, then you look at the photos and realise that your bike is laughing at what you thought was 'pushing'.
I've now done a few TDs and levels 1 and 2 of the California Superbike School which were brilliant for me personally and have really brought my riding on.
In terms of your chicken strips, they're one of those things, that much like getting your knee down, are a bit of a fixation at first, but soon pale into insignificance. I'll quite happily use the whole tyre on track, but can't bring myself to quite get it over to the edge on the road, it may well come with more experience, but I'm quite happy to be laughed at for them.
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blindswelledrat
18,963 posts
101 months
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I cant recommend doing yourself a track day enough.
I rode of 3 years and did 15k commuting on my bike each year and never really felt that comfortable and easily got myself into awkward situations in corners. COuld never really get confident as you never want to take 'risks' on a bike.
A track day absolutely transformed things. It is incredible how it makes you suddenly 'get' your bike. YOu start off like a pansy and see all these riders going past you on bends. And you can directly compare your own speed/lean angle to thiers and it inspires you to realise how much you can do and how far you can lean and sharply you can turn in complete saftety.
40k miles and I was getting no better at riding.
1 trackday taught me more than all of that in an hour, and it absolutely transformed my road riding thereafter. The condifidence and realisation of what your bike will realistically do makes it so much safer on the roads.
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EvoDelta
5,981 posts
59 months
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blindswelledrat said: I cant recommend doing yourself a track day enough.
I rode of 3 years and did 15k commuting on my bike each year and never really felt that comfortable and easily got myself into awkward situations in corners. COuld never really get confident as you never want to take 'risks' on a bike.
A track day absolutely transformed things. It is incredible how it makes you suddenly 'get' your bike. YOu start off like a pansy and see all these riders going past you on bends. And you can directly compare your own speed/lean angle to thiers and it inspires you to realise how much you can do and how far you can lean and sharply you can turn in complete saftety.
40k miles and I was getting no better at riding.
1 trackday taught me more than all of that in an hour, and it absolutely transformed my road riding thereafter. The condifidence and realisation of what your bike will realistically do makes it so much safer on the roads. This is quite inspiring as I am in the same position. Never really fancied a track day on the bike, but will look into it now.
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blindswelledrat
18,963 posts
101 months
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EvoDelta said: This is quite inspiring as I am in the same position. Never really fancied a track day on the bike, but will look into it now. THere's something really daunting about a trackday when you don't feel particularly confident on a bike but if you join a novice group on one there is not one shred of snobbery or intolerance to teh absolute beginners. QUite the opposite. YOu would be amazed at how completely awful some of the other people are and noone mind. It is an incredible experience and you'll be amazed. Report back when you do!
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defblade
2,794 posts
82 months
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Couple of tips: Learn to read the "vanishing point" of a corner - the point where the nearside and offside kerbs appear to meet. The closer to you, the tighter the corner; also the point may move - if it moves away, the corner is opening out and you can consider accelerating; if it moves towards you, it's getting tighter and you can consider clenching Look as far into the corner as you can - the bike will always go where you're looking. Point your chin into the corner, lean in with your whole upper body that way. A long way from knee-down, but gets the weight in the right direction. Put some weight on the inside foot peg - you can steer and swerve entirely like this... handy when it tightens and you know you can get a tighter line with a push on the peg as well as the handlebar.
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MC Bodge
3,812 posts
44 months
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This is possible, so anything less isn't really trying: 
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y2blade
46,320 posts
84 months
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defblade said: Couple of tips: Learn to read the "vanishing point" of a corner - the point where the nearside and offside kerbs appear to meet. The closer to you, the tighter the corner; also the point may move - if it moves away, the corner is opening out and you can consider accelerating; if it moves towards you, it's getting tighter and you can consider clenching Look as far into the corner as you can - the bike will always go where you're looking. Point your chin into the corner, lean in with your whole upper body that way. A long way from knee-down, but gets the weight in the right direction. Put some weight on the inside foot peg - you can steer and swerve entirely like this... handy when it tightens and you know you can get a tighter line with a push on the peg as well as the handlebar. Best advice ^^^^^
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graphene
881 posts
24 months
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y2blade said: defblade said: Couple of tips: Learn to read the "vanishing point" of a corner - the point where the nearside and offside kerbs appear to meet. The closer to you, the tighter the corner; also the point may move - if it moves away, the corner is opening out and you can consider accelerating; if it moves towards you, it's getting tighter and you can consider clenching Look as far into the corner as you can - the bike will always go where you're looking. Point your chin into the corner, lean in with your whole upper body that way. A long way from knee-down, but gets the weight in the right direction. Put some weight on the inside foot peg - you can steer and swerve entirely like this... handy when it tightens and you know you can get a tighter line with a push on the peg as well as the handlebar. Best advice ^^^^^ Sounds good. Have you been following Nigel's videos? http://www.youtube.com/advancedbiker
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RizzoTheRat
8,070 posts
61 months
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Only thing I can think of that's not already been said, drop your shoulder slightly in to the corner. You see a lot of people (we probably all do it some of the time) sitting more upright than thier bike, thinking about dropping that shoulder in makes you lean with the bike better and suddenly you'll find you feel more confident in the bend
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MrKipling43
5,303 posts
85 months
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As you start to get your lean on, be careful you don't start 'kinking' when you're leaning the bike more than you're leaning.
If you get your body position right, the bike will follow into the right position.
And, contrary to what you get told in your test, you don't countersteer all the way round a corner when you're pressing on. You countersteer til your knee hits the ground and then 'carve' through the bend.
Also, you don't control your bike with the bloody pegs. You should be gripping the bike with your outside knee, with very little stress put through the pegs and bars.
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defblade
2,794 posts
82 months
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MrKipling43 said: And, contrary to what you get told in your test, you don't countersteer all the way round a corner when you're pressing on. You countersteer til your knee hits the ground and then 'carve' through the bend.
Also, you don't control your bike with the bloody pegs. You should be gripping the bike with your outside knee, with very little stress put through the pegs and bars. I think you may be describing a different sort of road-riding to me...
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Dare2Fail
2,459 posts
77 months
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pasmith73 said: One area where I think I'm going wrong is that I'm approaching the corners too fast (for my ability) which means that I have to brake fairly hard and then enter the corner off the throttle. I think it'll be better if I approach slowly, and then accelerate constantly around the corner?
To add to the other tips, I always feel very unstable/unsafe entering a corner off the throttle. Have you tried rolling in on a neutral throttle instead of a closed throttle? Makes the bike feel much more planted/stale which in turn gives you more confidence.
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julian64
9,840 posts
123 months
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Just me that thinks countersteering doesn't actually exist then  .
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Rick448
1,070 posts
93 months
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julian64 said: Just me that thinks countersteering doesn't actually exist then . Have you tried turning a corner and not doing it? It is usually an unconcious thing but can be used to quicken or sharpen a turn.
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Old Fart
314 posts
95 months
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MrKipling43 said: As you start to get your lean on, be careful you don't start 'kinking' when you're leaning the bike more than you're leaning.
If you get your body position right, the bike will follow into the right position.
And, contrary to what you get told in your test, you don't countersteer all the way round a corner when you're pressing on. You countersteer til your knee hits the ground and then 'carve' through the bend.
Also, you don't control your bike with the bloody pegs. You should be gripping the bike with your outside knee, with very little stress put through the pegs and bars.
I've never read so much rubbish in my life 
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y2blade
46,320 posts
84 months
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Old Fart said: MrKipling43 said: As you start to get your lean on, be careful you don't start 'kinking' when you're leaning the bike more than you're leaning.
If you get your body position right, the bike will follow into the right position.
And, contrary to what you get told in your test, you don't countersteer all the way round a corner when you're pressing on. You countersteer til your knee hits the ground and then 'carve' through the bend.
Also, you don't control your bike with the bloody pegs. You should be gripping the bike with your outside knee, with very little stress put through the pegs and bars.
I've never read so much rubbish in my life He's a Journo.
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