Stoner retires
Discussion
Bluequay said:
The more I hear this kid of rubbish the more i'm warming to Stoner. It's not a popularity contest, it's a motor race. Winning is what matters, fans favourite is something for the losers to aspire to, or another way to increase the size of their bank accounts. Lorenzo\Rossi's winning antics weren't because they're "fun" guys, it's PR all designed to increase the bottom line.
This is the correct answer. Popularity is b
ks. Winning is what makes you great. Doohan was a moaner too. I don't see many saying he was rubbish. The way I see it is that those who dislike Stoner only do so as he stopped Rossi being all conquering forever. Was anyone whingeing when Rossi just cleared off into the distance? Wasn't there a season when he won nearly every race. Just because he gave a chicken a pillion ride doesn't make the races any less boring.
spareparts said:
Of course it is a popularity contest! Being a winner is great and sure attracts many fans, but the race coverage starts long before the red lights go out, and continues long after the chequered flag falls.
Schuey for many years was certainly the first to cross the finish line the most times, but is he the greatest? Many regard the likes of Senna ahead...
McRae being another example, lots of flare, mad driving, video game series, 1 WRC title... go figureSchuey for many years was certainly the first to cross the finish line the most times, but is he the greatest? Many regard the likes of Senna ahead...
spareparts said:
Bluequay said:
spareparts said:
When voting for the fan favourite on the racing grid, it is more than just where you end up on the podium. Stoner is fast and talented, yes, we all give him that. But that's about where it ends imho.
The more I hear this kid of rubbish the more i'm warming to Stoner. It's not a popularity contest, it's a motor race. Winning is what matters, fans favourite is something for the losers to aspire to, or another way to increase the size of their bank accounts. Lorenzo\Rossi's winning antics weren't because they're "fun" guys, it's PR all designed to increase the bottom line. Schuey for many years was certainly the first to cross the finish line the most times, but is he the greatest? Many regard the likes of Senna ahead...
t. They can make good money, and have successful careers, but ask any of the riders out there if they'd rather be popular or if they want to win. 100% for winning.Agreed. And to be honest, I think Lorenzo's antics when he wins look forced and awkward and would sooner he gave them a miss. Don't get me wrong, I like characters in Motorsport but they have to be natural rather than media personas, and they need to be absolutely winning, otherwise what's the point? Would you rather be the flamboyant character in 8th or the quiet one that lets his riding do the talking on the top step...?
spareparts said:
Of course it is a popularity contest! Being a winner is great and sure attracts many fans, but the race coverage starts long before the red lights go out, and continues long after the chequered flag falls.
Schuey for many years was certainly the first to cross the finish line the most times, but is he the greatest? Many regard the likes of Senna ahead...
Everybody hated Senna when he was racing. He wasn't full of flair, he messed up Mansell winning the title by being better, but he died. Schuey for many years was certainly the first to cross the finish line the most times, but is he the greatest? Many regard the likes of Senna ahead...
Schumacher was exactly the same if you substitute Hill for Mansell but he didn't die.
Senna was a Great but he only got sympathy after dying. Schumacher is a Great too, but he's tarnishing his image as he's no longer good enough. Much like Rossi.
Bluequay said:
You don't really seem to understand sport. It's about winning, the rest is bullst. They can make good money, and have successful careers, but ask any of the riders out there if they'd rather be popular or if they want to win. 100% for winning.
So keeping sponsors happy and selling motorbikes means nothing ?.t. They can make good money, and have successful careers, but ask any of the riders out there if they'd rather be popular or if they want to win. 100% for winning.blade7 said:
Bluequay said:
You don't really seem to understand sport. It's about winning, the rest is bullst. They can make good money, and have successful careers, but ask any of the riders out there if they'd rather be popular or if they want to win. 100% for winning.
So keeping sponsors happy and selling motorbikes means nothing ?.t. They can make good money, and have successful careers, but ask any of the riders out there if they'd rather be popular or if they want to win. 100% for winning.LoonR1 said:
Everybody hated Senna when he was racing. He wasn't full of flair, he messed up Mansell winning the title by being better, but he died.
Not true, Sennna was a genius in an F1 car and had a lot of fans, Mansell was a moaner too but at least he had the balls to take Senna on, admitedly in a better car which he won the title in, eventually.blade7 said:
Not true, Sennna was a genius in an F1 car and had a lot of fans, Mansell was a moaner too but at least he had the balls to take Senna on, admitedly in a better car which he won the title in, eventually.
I'll hazard a guess that most of his fans were based in South America, specifically Brazil. He was disliked by his peers for his ruthless streak and many considered him dangerous. However none of this detracts from his ability, which is exactly the point with Stoner. Many are dismissing his "genius" because he doesn't pander to sponsors or the crowds.
I don't see how him not racing is a good thing, especially when the reasons are as daft as his dislike for the PR side. So f
king what? I want to see the top people at the top of their game riding the nuts off a bike. If I want to see a showman I'll go to a West End production of some crappy Disney film. Bluequay said:
spareparts said:
Bluequay said:
spareparts said:
When voting for the fan favourite on the racing grid, it is more than just where you end up on the podium. Stoner is fast and talented, yes, we all give him that. But that's about where it ends imho.
The more I hear this kid of rubbish the more i'm warming to Stoner. It's not a popularity contest, it's a motor race. Winning is what matters, fans favourite is something for the losers to aspire to, or another way to increase the size of their bank accounts. Lorenzo\Rossi's winning antics weren't because they're "fun" guys, it's PR all designed to increase the bottom line. Schuey for many years was certainly the first to cross the finish line the most times, but is he the greatest? Many regard the likes of Senna ahead...
t. They can make good money, and have successful careers, but ask any of the riders out there if they'd rather be popular or if they want to win. 100% for winning.And if you think the rest is all bulls
t, then tell me why sponsors pay big $$$ to the marketing and PR people to try and make their racers look good in the eyes of Joe Public before and after every race. Fact is that the public opinion does matter in sport, not just the winning.spareparts said:
You miss my point. I fully agree that winning IS an objective and why the racers race. There would be no races to race in if Joe Public did not feel interested enough in the sport (name any) to pay a ticket for entry and fund the race in the first place.
You think ticket paying punters pay for the racing 
LoonR1 said:
However none of this detracts from his ability, which is exactly the point with Stoner. Many are dismissing his "genius" because he doesn't pander to sponsors or the crowds.
Who's dismissing his genius on a bike ?. The bottom line is money, most of that money comes from sponsors, I'm guessing Stoner is in a position to retire because he was happy to take the sponsors millions. Unless he comes back with a major attitude adjustment he'll be remembered in the same bracket as Roberts JR and Hayden in years to come.Whatever. He's a mardy .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMUyw9N6RDY
The only racer (F1, WRC etc) that's ever had me jumping out of my seat in excitement has been Simoncelli. Not much to watch when a few riders fk off and leave the rest of the pack fighting for the remaining positions. Especially when I couldn't give a toss which of those aholes win.
Looking good for Cal, always great to see another Brit at the top of a sport
. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMUyw9N6RDY
The only racer (F1, WRC etc) that's ever had me jumping out of my seat in excitement has been Simoncelli. Not much to watch when a few riders f
k off and leave the rest of the pack fighting for the remaining positions. Especially when I couldn't give a toss which of those aholes win. Looking good for Cal, always great to see another Brit at the top of a sport
blade7 said:
Bluequay said:
Win on Sunday sell on Monday. You don't need to pander to sponsors or a fickle public if you are winning.
So the under achieving Americans and Spaniards that get factory bikes are there because ?.
.spareparts said:
Bluequay said:
spareparts said:
Bluequay said:
spareparts said:
When voting for the fan favourite on the racing grid, it is more than just where you end up on the podium. Stoner is fast and talented, yes, we all give him that. But that's about where it ends imho.
The more I hear this kid of rubbish the more i'm warming to Stoner. It's not a popularity contest, it's a motor race. Winning is what matters, fans favourite is something for the losers to aspire to, or another way to increase the size of their bank accounts. Lorenzo\Rossi's winning antics weren't because they're "fun" guys, it's PR all designed to increase the bottom line. Schuey for many years was certainly the first to cross the finish line the most times, but is he the greatest? Many regard the likes of Senna ahead...
t. They can make good money, and have successful careers, but ask any of the riders out there if they'd rather be popular or if they want to win. 100% for winning.And if you think the rest is all bulls
t, then tell me why sponsors pay big $$$ to the marketing and PR people to try and make their racers look good in the eyes of Joe Public before and after every race. Fact is that the public opinion does matter in sport, not just the winning.
.
blade7 said:
So the under achieving Americans and Spaniards that get factory bikes are there because ?.
Are you not confusing the manufacturers motives with the riders motives? The riders couldn't give a flying fk about bike sales, they just want to win. Those that are winning can get out of a lot of the promotional crap (see Rossi at the peak of his powers) as the manufacturers know that having a winning rider trumps having a PR mouthpiece. As soon as they stop winning they have to start playing the game a bit more (see Hayden, Pedrosa, Rossi). As to the comments about preserving the show as it keeps racing alive; that's the problem of the series organisers. Again, the racers just want to win. For most of them they'd prefer to have a close race but very few of them are going to slow down in order to get one. If they can disappear into the distance and take the win then they will. In the words of Doohan "what do you want me to do? Slow down?".
Racers: responsible for winning and playing the PR game when they have to
Manufacturers: responsible for selling bikes
Race Organisers: responsible for the show
blade7 said:
LoonR1 said:
However none of this detracts from his ability, which is exactly the point with Stoner. Many are dismissing his "genius" because he doesn't pander to sponsors or the crowds.
Who's dismissing his genius on a bike ?. The bottom line is money, most of that money comes from sponsors, I'm guessing Stoner is in a position to retire because he was happy to take the sponsors millions. Unless he comes back with a major attitude adjustment he'll be remembered in the same bracket as Roberts JR and Hayden in years to come.Do you really think you get to see the real Stoner? do you f
k, there isn't a single person in the padock, racer or crew that show who they really are, Stoner has played the game to his advantage & knew when to get out.Is it bad for the sport? yep.
Is it bad for the fans? yep.
Is it bad for Stoner? nope.
what's the alternative, stay to long like Rossi? he's an unbelievable rider with incredible stats, but that wave of fame and achievement fooled him into that one last fight to many, Stoner has read it beautifully imo.
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