RE: PH2: Casey Stoner retires
Discussion
Kazlet said:
Hes no loss to moto GP.
I'm the biggest Rossi fan you will find, but Stoners talent is not born of this earth. When people like Rainey, Doohan and schwantz say he is the most talented rider ever, you also sit up & listen. Of course he will be missed, only the most blinkered idiot would say he won't. A great shame for the sport. He will be missed. I find it hard to understand people that say they don't like him, he's not a likeable character etc. How many of these people actually know the guy? Anyway, he should be rated on his riding ability, not his personality and, as he has proven, that is not up for questioning.
dingocooke said:
The problem for riders in the modern media swamped world, is you don't just get judged on your ability; and let's not shy away from the fact that Casey Stoner's talent is stellar.
The media and viewing public gets to see so much of a rider these days, and expects a sideshow, a polished act, all smiles and sponsor names; character etc..
Think back to past eras; the only time anyone knew anything of a rider was in a major fall out like the Bill Ivy, Phil Read controversy, or when a top rider like Mike Duff when through gender change.
In the pre intense media age (right up to the early 90's Id say) quieter characters like Casey Stoner were judged on talent alone; I feel sorry that now a guy with that level of talent and commitment can be lambasted by 'fans' for being boring off track; for some time now there has been an element of bike racing 'fans' with an attitude that has more akin to the worst of football fans; follow one rider, lambast the rest.
For me the talent of all the guys racing is to be watched and admired, and bike racing will be worse off for Casey Stoner's premature exit from the blue riband class.
I applaud bike racers past and present, without their talents our lives would not be quite so rich; BRAVO to each and every one of them.
Quite - most "personalities" are aThe media and viewing public gets to see so much of a rider these days, and expects a sideshow, a polished act, all smiles and sponsor names; character etc..
Think back to past eras; the only time anyone knew anything of a rider was in a major fall out like the Bill Ivy, Phil Read controversy, or when a top rider like Mike Duff when through gender change.
In the pre intense media age (right up to the early 90's Id say) quieter characters like Casey Stoner were judged on talent alone; I feel sorry that now a guy with that level of talent and commitment can be lambasted by 'fans' for being boring off track; for some time now there has been an element of bike racing 'fans' with an attitude that has more akin to the worst of football fans; follow one rider, lambast the rest.
For me the talent of all the guys racing is to be watched and admired, and bike racing will be worse off for Casey Stoner's premature exit from the blue riband class.
I applaud bike racers past and present, without their talents our lives would not be quite so rich; BRAVO to each and every one of them.
Edited by dingocooke on Friday 18th May 13:12
holes. What's wrong with simply being good at what you do?85Carrera said:
dingocooke said:
The problem for riders in the modern media swamped world, is you don't just get judged on your ability; and let's not shy away from the fact that Casey Stoner's talent is stellar.
The media and viewing public gets to see so much of a rider these days, and expects a sideshow, a polished act, all smiles and sponsor names; character etc..
Think back to past eras; the only time anyone knew anything of a rider was in a major fall out like the Bill Ivy, Phil Read controversy, or when a top rider like Mike Duff when through gender change.
In the pre intense media age (right up to the early 90's Id say) quieter characters like Casey Stoner were judged on talent alone; I feel sorry that now a guy with that level of talent and commitment can be lambasted by 'fans' for being boring off track; for some time now there has been an element of bike racing 'fans' with an attitude that has more akin to the worst of football fans; follow one rider, lambast the rest.
For me the talent of all the guys racing is to be watched and admired, and bike racing will be worse off for Casey Stoner's premature exit from the blue riband class.
I applaud bike racers past and present, without their talents our lives would not be quite so rich; BRAVO to each and every one of them.
Quite - most "personalities" are aThe media and viewing public gets to see so much of a rider these days, and expects a sideshow, a polished act, all smiles and sponsor names; character etc..
Think back to past eras; the only time anyone knew anything of a rider was in a major fall out like the Bill Ivy, Phil Read controversy, or when a top rider like Mike Duff when through gender change.
In the pre intense media age (right up to the early 90's Id say) quieter characters like Casey Stoner were judged on talent alone; I feel sorry that now a guy with that level of talent and commitment can be lambasted by 'fans' for being boring off track; for some time now there has been an element of bike racing 'fans' with an attitude that has more akin to the worst of football fans; follow one rider, lambast the rest.
For me the talent of all the guys racing is to be watched and admired, and bike racing will be worse off for Casey Stoner's premature exit from the blue riband class.
I applaud bike racers past and present, without their talents our lives would not be quite so rich; BRAVO to each and every one of them.
Edited by dingocooke on Friday 18th May 13:12
holes. What's wrong with simply being good at what you do?It will be farewell to a very talented rider, who suceeded on very difficult machines, tamed the difficult Ducati and handled all Honda provided, glad that he has recognised the end of his career whilst young, fit and safe.
OK, so there is a family and more responsibilities to take into account.
His riding ability is truly awesome and he can place the bike and time the laps to perfection, ok so he has been beaten at times, can appear moody so what.
His rear wheel control or understanding on the latest Honda shows why he wins, in my view.
Moto GP is only a shadow of its former glory and is under challenge by WSB, Moto2 and the incredibly tough and competetive BSB that only achieves limited publicity/tv coverage etc.
Retire and enjoy Mr Stoner, see what else can interest your life and offer another challenge you may wish to test.
Great rider, from my perspective.
Fleegle said:
That rather devalues Haydens, Lorenzo's and Rossi's acheivements over the last few years
Exactly. To talk about Casey as if he is peerless is a bit short-sighter really. A talented rider yes, but things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivx2IfzYHp4 go to show he isn't the only person that's been able to perform amazing riding jobs in the past few years. The sport has survived the retirements of Agostini, Sheene, Roberts, Spencer, Gardner, Schwantz, Rainey, Doohan etc etc and it'll will survive long after Stoner (and indeed Vale) have gone too.Edited by Rat_Fink_67 on Friday 18th May 22:04
krissstephen said:
He's lactose intollerant, he said it in the interview.
"he's not a nice person"? Really, because my brothers met him several times at Sepang and he's always been forthcoming to fans.
just a guess, do you have a yellow46 on the back of your car by any chance?
Hardly, but both you and jetpilot seem to have decided that I'm a Rossi fan, despite the fact that I've not even mentioned his name. "he's not a nice person"? Really, because my brothers met him several times at Sepang and he's always been forthcoming to fans.
just a guess, do you have a yellow46 on the back of your car by any chance?
We could bicker on all night here about who's personal experiences of the man are more valid. All I can say is that the ones I've had and those of friends have been negative - others on here have obviously had contrary experiences. I'm prepared to accept that I've been a little harsh earlier in this thread, but it's based on honest, personal experience. Likewise I have my reasons for doubting the whole lactose intolerance thing is an ongoing issue (or, in fact, ever was), though obviously I have no proof.
Maybe we shouldn't expect more from sportspeople than performing at their sport, but I think we all do, to some extent. It's just always felt like he sees his job as a chore and doesn't want to be there - to which a natural reaction would be "well feck off then". Maybe it has always been a chore for him? This sudden departure would seem to suggest its a possibility.
Like I say, I've been harsh, and his sins are by no means the greatest in contrast to his undoubted riding ability. I've just found him (and Pedrosa, for that matter) very hard to like.
I'm amazed that anyone can demand more from someone who has already gifted the racefans and backers alike with the greatest performances we are ever likely to see again. I can only speak as a racefan who has been watching since 1970. It sickens me that a person who is not a world champ can denigrate someone who is...unless they felt they were not getting their moneys worth....what on gods earth has someones personality got to do with it? As a person with a bit of life experience I notice that people react to you in the way that you treat them......now theres a clue!! I look forward to watching him racing Aussie V8 series, I am sure he will give it his usual 110%.
I was asking a question AlexKing, would you prefer a Rossi style "playful" character or a Stoner, i never said you were a Rossi fan!
To be fair, most of these guys in the top flight of their sport today are seen to be characterless as they are grooomed by the PR gurus to effectively not be outspoken or show a definable character, they give the right answers to set questions and often seem cold! F1 in my honest opinion is the pinnacle of this.
Fortunately you get a few break aways, Simmoncelli for one, its a shame he has gone and both Hayden and Edwards, maybe there just loud mouthed Americans but they have a side i can warm too! Kimmi in F1 etc
I have never warmed to Casey's character, or Pedrosa, Lorenzo etc but by god do i love watching him (and them to a lesser extent) on track, that is more than enough entertainment for me, like i said, i dont need a sideshow, i watch for the racing and sheer amazement at the shapes they get those bikes into!
I hear watching practice last night that literally ever top rider on the grid has their contract up a the end of the season! Could get interesting and i hope Cal gets his chance in a Factory team!
To be fair, most of these guys in the top flight of their sport today are seen to be characterless as they are grooomed by the PR gurus to effectively not be outspoken or show a definable character, they give the right answers to set questions and often seem cold! F1 in my honest opinion is the pinnacle of this.
Fortunately you get a few break aways, Simmoncelli for one, its a shame he has gone and both Hayden and Edwards, maybe there just loud mouthed Americans but they have a side i can warm too! Kimmi in F1 etc
I have never warmed to Casey's character, or Pedrosa, Lorenzo etc but by god do i love watching him (and them to a lesser extent) on track, that is more than enough entertainment for me, like i said, i dont need a sideshow, i watch for the racing and sheer amazement at the shapes they get those bikes into!
I hear watching practice last night that literally ever top rider on the grid has their contract up a the end of the season! Could get interesting and i hope Cal gets his chance in a Factory team!
Fleegle said:
Blackpuddin said:
This is the equivalent of Vettel packing in F1, Stoner's easily the most talented GP rider. At least it will get Carl Crutchlow nearer to a well-deserved podium.
Cal Crutchlow is heading for podiums whether CS retires or not. This decision may speed it up some though.What will be interesting is the bun fight for seats that awaits us.
My prediction…….Lorenzo to Honda, Cal to Yamaha, Rossi to Tech3 (to nurture Bradders)
Pedrosa will get the boot, but Repsol will be appeased with JL covering the spanish interest.
Spies back to WSBK, Not sure about Dovi
If any of your predictions come to fruition I'll eat my hat. IMHO ofcourse, never the less quite an amusing post(to me). It gave me a early morning chuckle.
Regards,
Mr Fox
AlexKing said:
If it's that mystery condition, well, I had some good intelligence on what was behind that which I believe myself, but wouldn't want to repeat it as it may not be true and is certainly confidential.
... because he's not a great person.
what a load of absolute b0ll0cks!.. ... because he's not a great person.
i absolutely despise people who talk bull $hit over the internet.
unless you are a v close friend or family member how on earth can you know whats up with the guy?.. you are in the same position as every other memeber of the public being drip fed what the persons employer wants us to know!..
And as for being a nice person, same as above. if your just going off what you've read/watched/heard then your more of a f
king idiot than your making youself out to be!peteO said:
what a load of absolute b0ll0cks!..
i absolutely despise people who talk bull $hit over the internet.
unless you are a v close friend or family member how on earth can you know whats up with the guy?.. you are in the same position as every other memeber of the public being drip fed what the persons employer wants us to know!..
And as for being a nice person, same as above. if your just going off what you've read/watched/heard then your more of a fking idiot than your making youself out to be!
Despise me all you like. As I have now said about five times, I've had multiple encounters with the guy, and am particularly close and involved with this world. Huge though my desire is to declare the nature of the interest in order to slap you down, other considerations are more important. i absolutely despise people who talk bull $hit over the internet.
unless you are a v close friend or family member how on earth can you know whats up with the guy?.. you are in the same position as every other memeber of the public being drip fed what the persons employer wants us to know!..
And as for being a nice person, same as above. if your just going off what you've read/watched/heard then your more of a f
king idiot than your making youself out to be!What I can say is this; lactose intolerance, in general, is pretty simple to control by means of avoiding dairy products. Once you've cut out the milk and cheese, it doesn't really have an ongoing effect on your health. This, along with some other background knowledge, causes me to doubt this official line (that you accuse me of toeing) that he's still suffering from it. Can I prove my doubts? No, and certainly not on here where at best it'll come down to my word against yours - besides, it's his right to keep these things private if he wants to. But I would make the point that it's not me who's swallowing the media and employer lines on this.
Will no doubt get flamed for this but I believe he's the most talented rider on the grid and could have challenged Rossi for the GOAT tag.
And I'm a massive Rossi fan. But he's talent is un-deniable. Great loss to moto gp, you have to ask the question what is going on with the sport when the reigning champion at the peak of his career decides to leave?
And I'm a massive Rossi fan. But he's talent is un-deniable. Great loss to moto gp, you have to ask the question what is going on with the sport when the reigning champion at the peak of his career decides to leave?
MrMagoo said:
Will no doubt get flamed for this but I believe he's the most talented rider on the grid and could have challenged Rossi for the GOAT tag.
And I'm a massive Rossi fan. But he's talent is un-deniable. Great loss to moto gp, you have to ask the question what is going on with the sport when the reigning champion at the peak of his career decides to leave?
I agree with your assessment of his talent,but don't think his retirement has any bearing on the state of the sport. You will always get the odd person who takes a different approach to everyone else. I'd say it is only an indication of something majorly wrong with the sport of you had numerous people leaving for the same reason.And I'm a massive Rossi fan. But he's talent is un-deniable. Great loss to moto gp, you have to ask the question what is going on with the sport when the reigning champion at the peak of his career decides to leave?
Stoner has always said that his intention was never to hang around for a long time and try to break lots of records. He came, he saw, he conquered, and then he left like he said he would.
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