First Bike - Advice Needed (CBR250 vs Ninja 250/400)

[Bob_Defly]

Hi,

My wife and I are about to do our bike tests and buy a bike. We only need one to share as we will rarely get to go out together 'cos we have little kids at the moment. We just want something we can go out for a quick blat on, or maybe use to go to work on when we feel like it.

I've been looking at the CBR 250 vs the Ninja 250, and finding it very hard to decide between the two. I don't want a 600CC bike as I'll probably kill myself on it and it will be too much for her as a beginner bike, IMHO.

On reading the reviews I was surprised about two thing with these bikes, firstly the poor 0-60 times, and secondly, that fact that at motorway speeds they might not have much in the way of overtaking power left. So on looking for maybe the next step up the Ninja 400 also comes into play. I'm amazed there aren't more bikes in the 400CC bracket, they used to be so popular!

As I said we don't need something super fast, but when we do commute it's about an hour on the bike at about 80mph, so I want something that can cope with that and also be enjoyable. Can the 250's handle this, am I worrying about nothing?

So should we go for one of the 250's? If so which one?
Or should we go for the Ninja 400? Are there any other 400's you would recommend?

thanks in advance!

(P.S. I live in Canada so I'm referencing what is available here)

[BlackPrince]

I've never ridden one but looking at the specs (approx 160kph top spd, 0-60 in about 5 and a bit secs) its unlikely you'll have an issue with keeping up with or even outaccelerating other cars on the hwy. Unless you plan to fall afoul of Bill 203, a Ninja 250 should be more than enough

Hell my old Vespa 200 with about 15hp could do about 115kph (indicated) and I was just dandy in the middle or right lane of the 401.

The 250 is all you need and will easily accelerate up to 150km/h. However if you feel like you want more power the 400 is hardly going to be a wheelie monster or get you in trouble imho so is just fine as a first bike also. Actually before the 250 and 400 existed, the 650 Ninja was thought of as a good first bike and having ridden one I'd agree, though there's nothing like having a small light 250 as your first bike imho


Different magazines have different opinions about the Honda v Kawi, but one adv of the Kawa is that its been out a lot longer so secondhand prices are fairly low if you're going that route

https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=3&...

there's a few reviews there from motorcyclist and cycle world

Im not putting my hand up but my old Vespa with my lardy 190lb self and my gf on it could overtake most cars, albeit slowly so the Ninja 250 should definitely pose no problem. I've never ridden one personally but my mate back in Toronto just got one and I'll be taking his for a spin in 2 wks time. If you haven't bought one by then I can tell you my impressions on how it does in TO hwy traffic

[BlackPrince]

there should be a few FZR400s around though they are quite old by now, and I've even met a guy who had a gray market CBR250 (I4) or a 400RR I forget which. Those are also options but imho the current I2 Ninjas are a bit easier to ride and more tractable than the relatively high strung Japanese market 80s and 90s 400s.

As far as courses go I'd recommend Rider Training Institute, but then I am biased as I got my license there. My dad went there too and hated the teachers though and went somewhere else to renew his M2 when it expired

There was an article in Cycle Canada a few months ago about small bikes and there was an article in there by a guy who toured Canada on his CBR250 and loved it

[HeatonNorris]

Don't even think about these 250s. They're the bikes nobody wants, as they don't naturally fit into anyone's requirements - if you want a cheap commuter, then a 125 is pretty much all you need - and if you want a bigger bike, they're too small, slow and nowhere near powerful enough.

Something like a Fazer 600, Suzuki SV650 or Ducati Monster would be absolutely ideal for your requirements - they're very popular 1st 'big bikes'.

[BadgerBenji]

I've ridden the Honda, and thought it was a cracking little bike, it's not big in proportions but neither is kawasaki. The Honda handled well, and would clip into 100mph, but was happy at 80. You could do worse, they are very economical.

[Ruttager]

Don't get hung up on cc. There are a lot of bikes out there that fit your bill perfectly. The reason we don't see many 400's is that the manufacturers just detune the 600/1000 engines to cover that category. So for an all rounder look at the BMW 650 GS, The Kawasaki ER6F, the honda CBR600F, the aprilia pegaso etc. There's loads. Dismiss now the thought that a bigger cc means instant death. Its total bullst. In fact if anything you will be safer on a bigger bike. It will be more stable at higher speeds, it will have more road presence, it will have bigger tyres so more grip and the brakes and suspension will probably be better as well.

[Zachlain]

Ruttager said:

Don't get hung up on cc. There are a lot of bikes out there that fit your bill perfectly. The reason we don't see many 400's is that the manufacturers just detune the 600/1000 engines to cover that category. So for an all rounder look at the BMW 650 GS, The Kawasaki ER6F, the honda CBR600F, the aprilia pegaso etc. There's loads. Dismiss now the thought that a bigger cc means instant death. Its total bullst. In fact if anything you will be safer on a bigger bike. It will be more stable at higher speeds, it will have more road presence, it will have bigger tyres so more grip and the brakes and suspension will probably be better as well.

100% agree with the above.

Also, a Honda CBR 600F is a very nice first bike to have too.

[PaulMoor]

On the cc fron there is a big diffrence between one 600 and another. For example the BMW 650gs is only a little more powerfull than the ninja 250 at 48bhp. At the other end of the scale is sports bikes with 120odd bhp. Its not like cars where (normaly) engine size is proportional to power.

Both the ninja and the cbr 250 are god bikes, but don't write off bigger bikes as being too fast!

[spareparts]

If living in North America, I would really struggle to think why you would want any thing less than a 600. It is not so much about outright speed (throttle goes both ways...), but more the ability to perform an overtake on a motorway safely at speed. Crawling past 5mph quicker than the vehicle in front is not a safe overtake imho.

Something like a CBF600 would be perfect for a first bike, offering all day comfort, reliability, sufficient power, and is exceptionally user friendly for your missus to ride too.

[RizzoTheRat]

I think most of the 250's sold in the UK are aimed at the 33bhp restriction we currently have for 2 years if you do the standard testK.

OP, do you have something similar in Canada?

As others have said there's a lot of bikes in the 600cc class that are well worth a look, ER-6, Versys, F650 (actually an 800cc but detuned), SV650, Transalp, etc, etc, unless you specifically want something that looks like a sports bike, in which case the 250's may be the way to go

[dai1983]

Did they sell the NC30/35 in Canada? Thats what you should consider alongside the ZXR400 if you are prepared to look for a decent one. NC30s are 20 years old by now though so you may have to put some work into it. If your looking at a newer bike I would consider the Street Triple and the R model depending on budget. In the uk the 07 CBR600rr can be had for a decent price and Bike magazine call it one of the best balanced bikes ever made.

As mentioned Id rather have an excess of power that you can use a small amount of than a small amount of power that you use all of.

[HeatonNorris]

BMWs are a good call - full of character and easy to ride.

I'd probably avoid the F650GS type things, though, as they're bloody tall and may be difficult for a new female rider to handle.

The F800S would make a very good choice, though.

[podman]

Ruttager said:

Don't get hung up on cc. There are a lot of bikes out there that fit your bill perfectly. The reason we don't see many 400's is that the manufacturers just detune the 600/1000 engines to cover that category.

The reason we dont see so many is that they where on the whole quite exotic due to being aimed at the japanese home market where 250s and 400s where the main focus, due to their licencing laws

They where quite highly priced and didnt sell that well as new models (a VFR400 was the same price as a CBR1000 in 1990 IIRC) BUT the grey importers kept bringing them in and as a second hand buy, they where great and good value for money.

As we all know the grey import market dropped off dramatically in the late 90s and the bikes began to get harder to find and less desirable.

All the 400's are cracking on a bit now and despite having had a few, I wouldnt recommend any of them over a 600, most have been either raced or handed down from one newbie to another , piling on the neglect over the years...and the good ones are way over priced for what you get IMHO

I love another NS400 but theres one on eBay at the mo for £8,000!

Anyway, back to the topic, go for plenty of lessons/training and aim for a 600.

[obscene]

Something like a Kawasaki ER-6 would probably fit the bill perfectly.

[Maruchino]

stopped reading at the 'i'll probably kill myself on it'

good luck

[jackh707]

obscene said:

Something like a Kawasaki ER-6 would probably fit the bill perfectly.

Totally agree, a nice forgiving Torquey engine that won't spit you off, cruise at 80 mph all day and return 60 mpg.

Had a go on a 400 recently, nc29. And ok the handling was divine but my knees were touching my elbows. The engine gave nothing until a lot of revs and only got properly going at 11000rpm, was surprisingly quick in the powerband but not what I'd recommend for someone new to biking.

[Bob_Defly]

Maruchino said:

stopped reading at the 'i'll probably kill myself on it'

good luck

Well thanks for your valuable input... There are other reasons I don't want a 600, insurance is significantly more expensive for a start.

Anyway, thanks everyone. What the hell is this article on about then?

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/114/9135/Motorcycle-...

article said:

The Honda 250’s best 0-60 mph time is 8.5 seconds, but the Kawasaki trips the lights with a best time of 7.7 seconds.

That seems ridiculously slow..?

[HeatonNorris]

Not sure how quick you expect a low powered 250cc single or ancient (ie. 1980s vintage) twin to be - but those figures don't surprise me.

[Bob_Defly]

BlackPrince said:

I've never ridden one but looking at the specs (approx 160kph top spd, 0-60 in about 5 and a bit secs) its unlikely you'll have an issue with keeping up with or even outaccelerating other cars on the hwy.

That's why this comment confused me..?

[welshjohn]

Stay away from those 250's had a week on one whilst waiting for my divvy to turn up.They are gutless above 70mph very vibey.You get blown all over the place due to there weight.And not that comfy to ride over a longish distance.Do you have things like kawasaki gpz500's or honda cb500's over there they would be a much better bike than those 250's.........