RE: PH2 ridden: BMW S1000RR HP4
Discussion
Biker's Nemesis said:
Akys Painigale is at Austin Racing as we speek, I was talking to him an hour ago and we got onto the subject of the Dukes power, we both reckon mid 160's at the back wheel as it's no faster than my 8 year old track R1.
God knows what it'll cost to get it any quicker as it's allready had thousands spent on top of the near 25k he paid for it.
Guarantee there'll be minimal gains from a pipe, maybe 2 to 4 bhp.God knows what it'll cost to get it any quicker as it's allready had thousands spent on top of the near 25k he paid for it.
Normally aspirated engines are not easy to improve upon when they're so highly developed as they are now. BHP is a function of rpm, so to get the power up, you need to up the rpm. Yes, gas flow in the heads, valve sizes and cams etc play a big part,as well as improved fuelling but only really provide significant gains with increases in rpm. So to get a Pani motor to rev more, it'll knock the arse out of the bottom end so not really a viable option. However, bet your last penny the WSB panni's will rev MUCH higher than the road bikes to make the power, but they'll be replacing motors as regular as clockwork
Bottom line is the beemer revs to 14, the pani to 11-12. If the pani could rev to 14 it'd make equivalent power. It can't, so it won'tAnd it's interesting that you reckon the pani is making 160 ish on the back. My old 1198 motor in Daisy with the Nemesis ECU, and a decent Akra system makes 169 at 10k.
I was watching him race a few weeks back against an 1198, the 1198 was leaving him for dead in a straight line, he was making time on the brakes and looked to be matching the 1198 mid corner. It's dog slow compared to the BMW.
Funny thing is it doesn't feel slow when you ride it, I think its a nicer ride than the BM.
Right, I think the press bikes were err (cough) made a little better than what people are getting from the factory. (same as the old RG 500's)
Funny thing is it doesn't feel slow when you ride it, I think its a nicer ride than the BM.
Right, I think the press bikes were err (cough) made a little better than what people are getting from the factory. (same as the old RG 500's)
Biker's Nemesis said:
I was watching him race a few weeks back against an 1198, the 1198 was leaving him for dead in a straight line, he was making time on the brakes and looked to be matching the 1198 mid corner. It's dog slow compared to the BMW.
The 1198 is a deceptive motor. I find mine works best by not wringing the nuts off of it, just keep changing up around 9-10 k and it pulls almost anything. Beemers and new ZX10's do haul me in at the end of the long straights, but with daisy being so light and the stupid grunt of the motor often sees me out drive them off the corner.I'll try and ost it up, but i have a video of a VERY well regarded rider here (did the TT a couple of years ago) on his 2012 Blade chasingme and i accelerate away from him on the main straight, on the back wheel!!
Biker's Nemesis said:
Funny thing is it doesn't feel slow when you ride it, I think its a nicer ride than the BM.
Only ridden a Pani for a couple of K's but can't say i liked the Beemer when i rode a friends..Biker's Nemesis said:
Right, I think the press bikes were err (cough) made a little better than what people are getting from the factory. (same as the old RG 500's)
No!! Never!! Say it don't happen!!! In reference to akkys 1199, Austin racing have gone on record as saying the bikes with the standard exhaust system throw out more than those with the full termi system. I believe they are in final throws of thier exhaust for the bike & looking to launch at show in November. In sure they have said 180 at rear wheel is where they are expecting it to be (for the full system at around 3-4k).
I assume he's having one of the furling modules fit ? Was going to myself but think I'll get it done at same time as exhaust as makes more sense to me, what with it bring September now. Early next year I think. When Akro have thirds out as well.
I assume he's having one of the furling modules fit ? Was going to myself but think I'll get it done at same time as exhaust as makes more sense to me, what with it bring September now. Early next year I think. When Akro have thirds out as well.
Hobo said:
In sure they have said 180 at rear wheel is where they are expecting it to be (for the full system at around 3-4k).
.
20ish BHP in a pipe??.
Really?
REALLY??
And we believe this because???
I would suspect some serious Dyno chicanery if they try to convince anyone of that!!
The National 1199 here in SA is making just under 170 with some proper mods, such as the Supersport ECU settings flashed into the ECU, and a full Termi system that is huge! Not the normal 'customer' Termi system, but the pukka Supersport/stock/cant remember which one! Costs about 7k quids!!
We've been running data logging on it for a while now and it's pretty much spot on in terms of fuelling/AFR's ( i fitted athe system and help review the logs) but still has the factory rev limit.
Couple of changes on the way are full Corsa CR gearbox and some other bits.
So 180? nah.....
BigHeartedTone said:
Jon - do you prefer this is to the Panigale/RSV4/ZX-10, or is it just more capable?
It's horses for courses. I'm a huge Ducati fan and the Panigale is stunning, but the S1000RR is far easier to ride fast as it is less aggressive. On the road the BMW is more civilised, but some may say that makes it less exiting. When the Ducati hits 7,000rpm and goes ape it is mindblowing, but it is also a handful. The Panigale is stunning to look at, tricky to ride, and a touch lively. The BMW is just brilliant but not quite as engaging due to the fact it makes everything so easy. The RSV4 is a proper racer on the road, small, light and not great at anything other than going fast while the ZX-10R has an absolutely corking motor and great traction control but is always 'a Japanese 1000' which puts some buyers off. If I was pushed I'd be stuck between the Panigale or BMW - if I wanted to improve my track riding or just have a (fast) easy life its the BMW, if I wanted to get a buzz with some character thrown in but also a few irritations then the Ducati. Speaking as a Ducati owner (not a Panigale, PH doesn't pay that well...) I love the character of the twin, but when you just need to get somewhere, I take the inline four...Jon Urry said:
When the Ducati hits 7,000rpm and goes ape it is mindblowing, but it is also a handful
I find it ironic that the exact behaviour that Ducati V-twin folk bemoan of IL4s now seems wonderful because it's in a Ducati.The more I see and read about 1199, the less interest I have in it. It'll be interesting to see once the initial 'must have' sales pass, how its sales will hold up in comparison to the 1198 it replaced.
I think the smart money will be going into good 1198Ss and 1198 Tricolores at the moment.
The S1000RR does look to be the daddy, but I'd still take a 2012 Blade for the road.
I've never heard the full HP road system before. 
Biker's Nemesis said:
Right, I think the press bikes were err (cough) made a little better than what people are getting from the factory. (same as the old RG 500's)
Which I am sure has nothing to do with the Panigale on review by Bike magazine suffering from catastrophic engine failure (something inside the engine wanted to be outside) after 1637 miles 
pozi said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Right, I think the press bikes were err (cough) made a little better than what people are getting from the factory. (same as the old RG 500's)
Which I am sure has nothing to do with the Panigale on review by Bike magazine suffering from catastrophic engine failure (something inside the engine wanted to be outside) after 1637 miles 
Gotta love a bike with "Character" 
I'll stick with "Boring"
Honda, thank you very much.So w are aware of 1 panigale failure & that them condemned ? This thread is about S1000's originally & everyone knows they have never had any problems, right ? People want to knock the bike, and maybe why not. It's 20k so should be good. All reviews I've read however rate it on par with the S1000 overall, with both a distance clear of everything else apart from the RSV4 which seems to be top of Manys list.
Things fail, it's a fact of life. The measure is how such failures are dealt with IMO, hence why having 2 recalls on the Ducati isn't any big issue. They deal with me very well.
Re my previous comments about Austin racing exhaust, thier test bike with standard system put out 174, with full termi system it put out 172. With thier system they are about to launch (and module/up map) they are expecting 183-183.
Things fail, it's a fact of life. The measure is how such failures are dealt with IMO, hence why having 2 recalls on the Ducati isn't any big issue. They deal with me very well.
Re my previous comments about Austin racing exhaust, thier test bike with standard system put out 174, with full termi system it put out 172. With thier system they are about to launch (and module/up map) they are expecting 183-183.
Hobo said:
So w are aware of 1 panigale failure & that them condemned ? This thread is about S1000's originally & everyone knows they have never had any problems, right ? People want to knock the bike, and maybe why not. It's 20k so should be good. All reviews I've read however rate it on par with the S1000 overall, with both a distance clear of everything else apart from the RSV4 which seems to be top of Manys list.
Things fail, it's a fact of life. The measure is how such failures are dealt with IMO, hence why having 2 recalls on the Ducati isn't any big issue. They deal with me very well.
Don't be so sensitive Mark, it was said firmly tongue in cheek.Things fail, it's a fact of life. The measure is how such failures are dealt with IMO, hence why having 2 recalls on the Ducati isn't any big issue. They deal with me very well.
I worked in main dealers workshop for long enough to know what's what. (jap four plus Ducati and Triumph)
Triumph were the worst for warranty claims...Ducati were probably the best.
Anyway:
I'd have a Ducati...very nearly bought a 996/998 a couple of years back and wouldn't rule one out tbh.
Jon Urry said:
BigHeartedTone said:
Jon - do you prefer this is to the Panigale/RSV4/ZX-10, or is it just more capable?
It's horses for courses. I'm a huge Ducati fan and the Panigale is stunning, but the S1000RR is far easier to ride fast as it is less aggressive. On the road the BMW is more civilised, but some may say that makes it less exiting. When the Ducati hits 7,000rpm and goes ape it is mindblowing, but it is also a handful. The Panigale is stunning to look at, tricky to ride, and a touch lively. The BMW is just brilliant but not quite as engaging due to the fact it makes everything so easy. The RSV4 is a proper racer on the road, small, light and not great at anything other than going fast while the ZX-10R has an absolutely corking motor and great traction control but is always 'a Japanese 1000' which puts some buyers off. If I was pushed I'd be stuck between the Panigale or BMW - if I wanted to improve my track riding or just have a (fast) easy life its the BMW, if I wanted to get a buzz with some character thrown in but also a few irritations then the Ducati. Speaking as a Ducati owner (not a Panigale, PH doesn't pay that well...) I love the character of the twin, but when you just need to get somewhere, I take the inline four...Edited by BigHeartedTone on Friday 7th September 11:55
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