RE: Honda CBR600RR: PH2 Ridden

[moanthebairns]

Fidd said:

The bike shown is not UK spec - the UK ones will not have the forward facing amber running lights.

I'm pretty certain that the CBR600RR with ABS weighs the same as a non ABS Blade 1000.

How many people looking to spend a good bit of money on a decent Sports bike are really going to buy a 600 over a 1000 ?

the price would put me off I can get a new blade for 11,500 at my local dealer.

[neelyp]

Fidd said:

The bike shown is not UK spec - the UK ones will not have the forward facing amber running lights.

I'm pretty certain that the CBR600RR with ABS weighs the same as a non ABS Blade 1000.

How many people looking to spend a good bit of money on a decent Sports bike are really going to buy a 600 over a 1000 ?

We've discussed this before and it would appear that this is a UK spec.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[3DP]

neelyp said:

Fidd said:

The bike shown is not UK spec - the UK ones will not have the forward facing amber running lights.

I'm pretty certain that the CBR600RR with ABS weighs the same as a non ABS Blade 1000.

How many people looking to spend a good bit of money on a decent Sports bike are really going to buy a 600 over a 1000 ?

We've discussed this before and it would appear that this is a UK spec.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Yep - to me it looks like they are bringing in the US spec for the UK and just dipping the lights the other way. Another sign of Honda's lack of interest in the UK 600 market.

I find the Blade weight/600RR ABS weight being the same, hard to believe. I've ridden both the 2012 Blade and have 600RR the 600RR is considerably smaller and lighter feeling, although their balanced handling characteristics are similar.

[neelyp]

According to Honda's specs on their website, an ABS 2013 600 is 196kg, a 2013 Blade is 200kg (it doesn't mention if this is for an ABS model or not).

[jackh707]

for me, id have a 600 over a 1000...
I like the fact that you can be out on a hoon and run the engine up near the rev limiter through the whole power band in a couple of gears and not be at instant gaol speed.
If I want torque and to ride quickly and lazily i'd ride a GS, its what its been designed to do.

I like flat bottom ends with mad camming on and fast revs.


For me the speed is the deal, I don't really want to be riding a bike on the road that only starts to make sense at 130, I want something that is alive and fun at 40-80 on twisty back roads.

[Fidd]

neelyp said:

We've discussed this before and it would appear that this is a UK spec.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Thanks for the link - genuinely interesting to me! Especially having had many US spec vehicles over the years where the factory amber running lights have always been deemed to be illegal in the UK and should be disabled. I wonder if plod will be up to speed with the latest regs? - they have been known to pull vehicles with amber running lights showing to the front in the past.

[Biker's Nemesis]

New suit? Suits you Sir.

[_g_]

article said:

It is an incredible system and allows you to brake in a straight line as hard as you can in the dry without any fear of locking the front,

Eh?
So incredible that it perfectly matches the capability of a 1988 CBR600 with an ok tyre on the front! A bike you could probably pick up for £500 these days.

Ok, maybe if you really, really, really tried you might be able to lock the front up on the older bike. But with a decent tyre on a sports bike the rear should lift in good conditions, not the front lock up.

I've grabbed big handfuls of brake on a large range of bikes and never had a sports bike with an ok tyre lock the front in the dry when upright.
This isn't fantastic engineer and technology - just physics!
Sure, a cruiser's much more likely to lock up being long and low - and probably have worse tyres. Certainly proper enduro tyres on tarmac - though the same enduro bike will happily endo on dirt.

Fidd said:

How many people looking to spend a good bit of money on a decent Sports bike are really going to buy a 600 over a 1000 ?

A good bit of money - quite a lot.
New money - a lot less, I'd have thought.
I do prefer a 600 for 'fun' - find litre bikes far too uninvolving. But I wouldn't be buying new.

Edited by _g_ on Tuesday 26th March 18:37

[RemyMartin]

f1nn said:

Why is there an obsession with being to push a 600 to its limit? Why is it that only if we could do that then we should buy a litre bike?

One question: what would a super sport 600 offer me that my current 2009 Fireblade doesn't?

I just don't see why if someone could afford to buy, insure, fuel and maintain a litre bike, they would buy a 600.

I'd rather have the extra power and torque and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Probably more due to the fact that you `feel` like your Working the bike more by ringing its neck and the fact it isn't as torquey means you can open throttle/pin it for much longer periods without accelerating as much. If you deem most riders like speed but not prolonged periods of 120+ this can cushion the rider into thinking he is 'trying' harder even if that's a placebo effect.

I do think that having a 1000 is a mental mind block to being able to process quicker decisions on throttle opening on corners.


I would say of the current crop of 600s the new 636 would be my choice, closely followed by the 675r. Only reason the Triumph isnt top is purely down to my friends issues with his street triple R.

[RemyMartin]

jackh707 said:

For me the speed is the deal, I don't really want to be riding a bike on the road that only starts to make sense at 130, I want something that is alive and fun at 40-80 on twisty back roads.

I'd say a 600 supersport is totally the wrong bike for those sort of speeds and road type.

A supermoto or something like a big single like the KTM Duke.

[Schnellmann]

_g_ said:

article said:

It is an incredible system and allows you to brake in a straight line as hard as you can in the dry without any fear of locking the front,

Eh?

Ok, maybe if you really, really, really tried you might be able to lock the front up on the older bike. But with a decent tyre on a sports bike the rear should lift in good conditions, not the front lock up.

I've grabbed big handfuls of brake on a large range of bikes and never had a sports bike with an ok tyre lock the front in the dry when upright.
This isn't fantastic engineer and technology - just physics!

Edited by _g_ on Tuesday 26th March 18:37

Not so sure about that. I remember (it is engraved in my memory!) the front tyre sliding on the Brabham Straight leading into Paddock Hill Bend and I was on an R6 (a hire bike and I'm pretty sure the tyres were good). So it is definitely possible, physics or not. ABS would have saved my undies that day

[_g_]

I wonder if there could have been debris on the track, or maybe a tyre that had gone through a few too many heat cycles but still looked good? (I'm presuming the tyre was warm at the time - something like a Pilot Race not kept up to temp can get pretty deadly!)
I've done plenty of trackdays, raced and done stoppies from triple-digit speeds intentionally and never had a good front tyre let go in good conditions.
Similar experiences with friends who've done similar.

I just had a quick look at a video of Brands as it's a while since I've ridden there and it looks like you're likely to be starting to lean when braking too.

Lost the front plenty of times in adverse conditions, with a poor front tyre and the like.

I'm sure it is possible to lose the front if you REALLY try, but I've not seen it happening without. (Thinking back to a video of someone intentionally locking the front up to get used to the feeling.)

Edited by _g_ on Wednesday 27th March 15:52

[Schnellmann]

It was near the end of a session and the track was dry. From memory it wasn't cold. Perhaps I'm not remembering it correctly as it happened quite quickly. I was at maximum braking when I noticed that the front wheel was starting to tuck/slide. Luckily I let off the front brake a bit....but then realised was going a bit quick for paddocks. Fortunately I remembered what to do - I focused only on the apex of the corner and chucked it in as hard as I could - and got round fine (at least physically). When I spoke to the bike hire crew at the end of the session they said the track is a bit bumpy and that could have caused the slide.

[Herman Toothrot]

The whole 1000 vs 600 thing, I wonder how many people really make the most of their 1000's. The difference in power and torque is vast, been out with people with decades of experience, them on CBR600RRs and they have openly admitted they struggled to keep up with me on my hornet. Me riding Blade they'd leave me standing, amazed how much harder it is to use the power, any of the power. Hornet leaned over on the power WOT leaving bends. Blade I'm stting myself have to be so much more careful and at the moment it means I'm much, much slower.

Anyone else think sports bikes with narrow bars are harder to ride? Certainly feels that way for me at the minute? Reading this review it makes me think a 600rr is a sensible fun bike.

[_g_]

Schnellmann said:

It was near the end of a session and the track was dry. From memory it wasn't cold. Perhaps I'm not remembering it correctly as it happened quite quickly. I was at maximum braking when I noticed that the front wheel was starting to tuck/slide. Luckily I let off the front brake a bit....but then realised was going a bit quick for paddocks. Fortunately I remembered what to do - I focused only on the apex of the corner and chucked it in as hard as I could - and got round fine (at least physically). When I spoke to the bike hire crew at the end of the session they said the track is a bit bumpy and that could have caused the slide.

Ah, yes; bumps can certainly cause problems.
I don't THINK I've ever crashed due to them, but I generally found I actually tended to be overly cautious with them.
With a bike not set up for your weight, it'd be easy to have already used up a bit too much suspension travel, meaning a bump could see the loss of traction.
Riding enduro, brakes in the bumping zone are ever present and of course a bit more challenging! In those cases they can certainly mean a bike that can easily stoppy needs significant brake modulation to not lose grip.

[croyde]

Fidd said:

The bike shown is not UK spec - the UK ones will not have the forward facing amber running lights.

I'm pretty certain that the CBR600RR with ABS weighs the same as a non ABS Blade 1000.

How many people looking to spend a good bit of money on a decent Sports bike are really going to buy a 600 over a 1000 ?

Insurance!!

Even at the ripe old age of 50 and with 33 years of biking behind me, I can no longer get reasonable insurance on any litre plus race bike yet can just about manage a 600. London BTW.

Besides you'd have to be a pretty balls out rider to say that you found a 600 boring/slow and would need a 1000 to satisfy your lust for performance.

[jackh707]

RemyMartin said:

I'd say a 600 supersport is totally the wrong bike for those sort of speeds and road type.

A supermoto or something like a big single like the KTM Duke.

True, its why a ride a versys, unpleasant over 100, wheelies of crests in 2nd and 3rd quicker than a 600 40-80 in the real world.
I would have thought a 600 would be relatively better at this than a 1000 though.... I did find a cbr600f a bit over the top for the road and incredibly dull in how competent it was.

[3DP]

jackh707 said:

RemyMartin said:

I'd say a 600 supersport is totally the wrong bike for those sort of speeds and road type.

A supermoto or something like a big single like the KTM Duke.

True, its why a ride a versys, unpleasant over 100, wheelies of crests in 2nd and 3rd quicker than a 600 40-80 in the real world.
I would have thought a 600 would be relatively better at this than a 1000 though.... I did find a cbr600f a bit over the top for the road and incredibly dull in how competent it was.

In my view sports 600s work best on 60-120mph single carriageway A roads. You can revel in their superior handling, use the full bredth of 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear and don't have to be too careful with the throttle. A thousand is more usable at lower than 60 and higher than 120 due to extra torque and power, but they are heavier, and can be a bit overwhelming on tighter stuff with the ferocity of the power and torque.

For me, point to point on a 600 on my favourite roads, I reckon I'd be no faster on a modern 1000 as what I make up on straights, I'd lose on bends and corner exit. The 600 is generally more fun in these scenarios I believe, but less relaxing and rewarding everywhere else.

[Schnellmann]

Herman Toothrot said:

The whole 1000 vs 600 thing, I wonder how many people really make the most of their 1000's. The difference in power and torque is vast, been out with people with decades of experience, them on CBR600RRs and they have openly admitted they struggled to keep up with me on my hornet. Me riding Blade they'd leave me standing, amazed how much harder it is to use the power, any of the power. Hornet leaned over on the power WOT leaving bends. Blade I'm stting myself have to be so much more careful and at the moment it means I'm much, much slower.

Anyone else think sports bikes with narrow bars are harder to ride? Certainly feels that way for me at the minute? Reading this review it makes me think a 600rr is a sensible fun bike.

Some time back I read a really interesting article in a bike magazine. Unfortunately can't remember which one (might not have been British TBH). They were comparing 600s and 1000s on track. They had a fairly big group of riders, ranging from some readers, journos and racers. What was interesting was that the racers all did their best times on the 1000s, the journos were not really much quicker on the 1000s and the readers were quickest on the 600s...

[dannyintenerife]

Looking at upgrading to a litre sports next.
I think I need to have at least 140bhp and 185mph on tap to be able to sleep at night.
Honda X11 or 1098/1199 if the tanks are different to the 848.
MV Agusta F4 in each colour if I win the lottery.
Why don't any 848 reports mention the tank and seat thing?