Mito 443 Project
Discussion
Yazza54 said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
I have... have you seen the price? It's really nearly there, just not quite right. Dog s
t after tonights antics!!! But no point putting the others back in.Biker's Nemesis said:
Reading the spiel they sound like Lectron knock-offs meant for Harley tractors, if I was going down that route I'd buy genuine 2 stroke Lectrons.Yazza... Just my 2p worth 
Regarding the flat midrange followed by the massive kick off you're always going to have a bit of that due to the configuration of the motor. Long stroke with no power valves and mildly aggressive port timing will always have this characteristic.
You might find jetting the midrange makes no real difference. Some other things to consider though...
Programmable ignition system. Look at your timing figures and consider adjusting them in the throttle and rev range In question.
Use gearing commander to calculate your gear ratio spreads and power zone. You'll be able to see if a Nova gearbox will allow you to stay closer to the power between gear changes. For example the revised gearsets for the Aprilia R250 make a huge difference once up into the power.
Carbs. I know this is considered heresay in 2T circles but maybe consider slightly smaller carbs. You might loose a couple of bhp at peak but the higher air velocity at the lower rpm will improve midrange response massively. Consider 1 to 2mm smaller.
Port timing. Maybe look at adjusting the base gaskets to lower the port timing to fatten the midrange. Might cost a little on top but again, it's all about area under the curve. With the long stroke of the motor maybe consider making the motor strong in the 30 to 90% region and accept the loss on the top for better accessibility to the power.
Lots to think about
And get some dellortos on it
Regarding the flat midrange followed by the massive kick off you're always going to have a bit of that due to the configuration of the motor. Long stroke with no power valves and mildly aggressive port timing will always have this characteristic.
You might find jetting the midrange makes no real difference. Some other things to consider though...
Programmable ignition system. Look at your timing figures and consider adjusting them in the throttle and rev range In question.
Use gearing commander to calculate your gear ratio spreads and power zone. You'll be able to see if a Nova gearbox will allow you to stay closer to the power between gear changes. For example the revised gearsets for the Aprilia R250 make a huge difference once up into the power.
Carbs. I know this is considered heresay in 2T circles but maybe consider slightly smaller carbs. You might loose a couple of bhp at peak but the higher air velocity at the lower rpm will improve midrange response massively. Consider 1 to 2mm smaller.
Port timing. Maybe look at adjusting the base gaskets to lower the port timing to fatten the midrange. Might cost a little on top but again, it's all about area under the curve. With the long stroke of the motor maybe consider making the motor strong in the 30 to 90% region and accept the loss on the top for better accessibility to the power.
Lots to think about
And get some dellortos on it
Hi mate, appreciate the advice. With all due respect you're not telling me anything I don't already know. I'm not going to entertain fitting different carbs until I've seen what this is like when I've done what I want to do with it.
I did look into potentially decking the cylinder some time ago but it would be daft to start making such drastic modifications when I know for a fact that the carbs still aren't set up right. I think it would have been pretty damn close if Allens sent me the right bits.
I did look into potentially decking the cylinder some time ago but it would be daft to start making such drastic modifications when I know for a fact that the carbs still aren't set up right. I think it would have been pretty damn close if Allens sent me the right bits.
Hi mate, appreciate the advice. With all due respect you're not telling me anything I don't already know. I'm not going to entertain fitting different carbs until I've seen what this is like when I've done what I want to do with it.
I did look into potentially decking the cylinder some time ago but it would be daft to start making such drastic modifications when I know for a fact that the carbs still aren't set up right. I think it would have been pretty damn close if Allens sent me the right bits.
I did look into potentially decking the cylinder some time ago but it would be daft to start making such drastic modifications when I know for a fact that the carbs still aren't set up right. I think it would have been pretty damn close if Allens sent me the right bits.
Yazza54 said:
Hi mate, appreciate the advice. With all due respect you're not telling me anything I don't already know. I'm not going to entertain fitting different carbs until I've seen what this is like when I've done what I want to do with it.
I did look into potentially decking the cylinder some time ago but it would be daft to start making such drastic modifications when I know for a fact that the carbs still aren't set up right. I think it would have been pretty damn close if Allens sent me the right bits.
I don't think Mr Bass was telling you how to suck eggs. Sometimes it's easy to get lost or miss something obvious when you're knackers deep in a project, you know "can't see the wood for the trees" type thing.I did look into potentially decking the cylinder some time ago but it would be daft to start making such drastic modifications when I know for a fact that the carbs still aren't set up right. I think it would have been pretty damn close if Allens sent me the right bits.
Apologies from me if you already knew that too.
Biker's Nemesis said:
I don't think Mr Bass was telling you how to suck eggs. Sometimes it's easy to get lost or miss something obvious when you're knackers deep in a project, you know "can't see the wood for the trees" type thing.
Apologies from me if you already knew that too.
No. Let's be clear.... I was trying to tell him how to suck eggs.... After all, what does the whipper snapper know?? He only built the bloody thing Apologies from me if you already knew that too.
Steve Bass said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
I don't think Mr Bass was telling you how to suck eggs. Sometimes it's easy to get lost or miss something obvious when you're knackers deep in a project, you know "can't see the wood for the trees" type thing.
Apologies from me if you already knew that too.
No. Let's be clear.... I was trying to tell him how to suck eggs.... After all, what does the whipper snapper know?? He only built the bloody thing Apologies from me if you already knew that too.
Got some R-5 needle jets in the post last night so threw them in, bike certainly seems crisper and I'm on the middle clip. Before I was on the top clip (weakest) with R-6 needle jets. Was too late to ride it or run it too long but I could notice a difference just from how it ran. Need to put some load on it and see whether the clip position needs adjusting.
Also did a bit of CAD (cardboard aided design) and made some attachments for the rad in an attempt to try and force air through more effectively.
[IMG]http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q53/yazza54/108C2DB7-BD79-4FBE-8577-8137E3685D81_zpsr5djioy8.jpg ~original[/IMG]
Also sorted the gear linkage out and fitted a new rose joint. I normally buy the heavy duty ones from McGill motorsport but seemingly fitted a cheapo one when I built it, so the lesson is buy cheap buy twice. The McGill ones are not cheap at 9 quid a pop for an m6 rose joint, but the quality is great.
Also did a bit of CAD (cardboard aided design) and made some attachments for the rad in an attempt to try and force air through more effectively.
[IMG]http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q53/yazza54/108C2DB7-BD79-4FBE-8577-8137E3685D81_zpsr5djioy8.jpg ~original[/IMG]
Also sorted the gear linkage out and fitted a new rose joint. I normally buy the heavy duty ones from McGill motorsport but seemingly fitted a cheapo one when I built it, so the lesson is buy cheap buy twice. The McGill ones are not cheap at 9 quid a pop for an m6 rose joint, but the quality is great.
Edited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 13th September 20:53
Edited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 13th September 20:54
The bike now has a powerdynamo kit fitted, wasn't too difficult to do, wiring was simple enough. Actually bolting up the flywheel without it bloody moving was probably the most difficult thing as the power dynamo kit has no woodruff key. Contrary to popular belief the woodruff on the standard flywheel isn't to hold it in place, it's simply to give it a known fixed position.
The beauty of the ignitech is that it can be strobed and adjusted anyway so as long as you set the base advance correctly then it's fixed reference point is known and it can work from there to give the desired curve figures that have been programmed. Get this wrong however, and the whole map is thrown out.
Certainly revs quicker and freer, haven't noticed any real lack of tractability as whilst it's considerably lighter than the standard flywheel there's still a reasonable weight to it.
I played with the air screws and found it's much happier when you hit the throttle now. I'm waiting for some smaller pilots to come as I believe they're still too rich. Will then ride it again and play with the needles/clip positions until I'm happy, but I felt very positive after riding it last night, much better..!
It genuinely feels like its a couple of adjustments away from being on the money now after all this time. In reality it'll probably be more than a couple but I have some proper direction now.
The beauty of the ignitech is that it can be strobed and adjusted anyway so as long as you set the base advance correctly then it's fixed reference point is known and it can work from there to give the desired curve figures that have been programmed. Get this wrong however, and the whole map is thrown out.
Certainly revs quicker and freer, haven't noticed any real lack of tractability as whilst it's considerably lighter than the standard flywheel there's still a reasonable weight to it.
I played with the air screws and found it's much happier when you hit the throttle now. I'm waiting for some smaller pilots to come as I believe they're still too rich. Will then ride it again and play with the needles/clip positions until I'm happy, but I felt very positive after riding it last night, much better..!
It genuinely feels like its a couple of adjustments away from being on the money now after all this time. In reality it'll probably be more than a couple but I have some proper direction now.
Edited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 5th April 11:59
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