Racing Silly Season - Who is going where in 2014?

[LoonR1]

FourWheelDrift said:

Joey Dunlop showed he could circuit race in the World Superbike series 1988.

Many others like Rutter, Whitham all circuit/TT racers.

I know and how many championships did they win on short circuits at the top level?

[theshrew]

Pkh72 said:

graphene said:

theshrew said:

So anyone know why Hutchinson has lost his ride ?

Presume, results:

23 Ret, 16 Ret, 13 12, 18 15, 18 16, 22 17, Ret 19 19

Shame though it is there must be serious questions whether he will ever get his mojo back, completely understandable if he can't.

I hope he does, like many of the road racers well bike racers as a whole he seems like a real nice fella.

[sprinter1050]

Not forgetting Guy Martin who also prefers roads to circuits & in fact never did well on BSB or Supersport (I think?) rides.

[tight5]

LoonR1 said:

He's a proper road racer though isn't he? They tend to struggle on short tracks. I know there's the odd exception but for every exception I'll give you 5 who struggled.

good luck !


joey dunlop
john mcguinness
mike hailwood
steve hislop
giacomo agostini
dave jefferies
chas mortimer
phil read
mick grant
geoff duke
jim redman
john surtees
carl fogarty
rob mcelnea
bob McIntyre
luigi taveri
bill ivy
ernst degner
jack Findlay
leslie graham
stuart graham
ron haslam
omobono tenni
peter williams

[LoonR1]

tight5 said:

good luck !


joey dunlop
john mcguinness
mike hailwood
steve hislop
giacomo agostini
dave jefferies
chas mortimer
phil read
mick grant
geoff duke
jim redman
john surtees
carl fogarty
rob mcelnea
bob McIntyre
luigi taveri
bill ivy
ernst degner
jack Findlay
leslie graham
stuart graham
ron haslam
omobono tenni
peter williams

I'm obviously talking about modern racers. How do you see John McGuinness as a success on short tracks? He wins loads of road races but I can't recall one top level rare that's he's won, let alone a championship. If they win on the road on 600cc / 1000cc bikes then success on short circuits is on the same bikes.

[tight5]

LoonR1 said:

How do you see John McGuinness as a success on short tracks?

british 250cc champion 1999
british superstocks - 2009 , 3rd in championship .
macau - 1 win , 5 seconds , 1 third .
did 4 brit GP wildcards -
1997 250 , 14th .
1998 500 , 12th ( ahead of Garry McCoy - a 500cc race winner )
2000 500 , 13th ( ahead of Alex Barros - a 500cc and motogp race winner , Anthony Gobert , Nobuatsu Aoki a 250cc race winner and Garry McCoy )

I'd say getting in and qualifiying and scoring points for a GP is quite successful ( never mind not 'struggling on short tracks' , like you said ) .

LoonR1 said:

I'm obviously talking about modern racers.

oh !
NOW I see .



well done on avoiding the 120 struggling on short track riders , tho !

[LoonR1]

tight5 said:

LoonR1 said:

How do you see John McGuinness as a success on short tracks?

british 250cc champion 1999
british superstocks - 2009 , 3rd in championship .
macau - 1 win , 5 seconds , 1 third .
did 4 brit GP wildcards -
1997 250 , 14th .
1998 500 , 12th ( ahead of Garry McCoy - a 500cc race winner )
2000 500 , 13th ( ahead of Alex Barros - a 500cc and motogp race winner , Anthony Gobert , Nobuatsu Aoki a 250cc race winner and Garry McCoy )

I'd say getting in and qualifiying and scoring points for a GP is quite successful ( never mind not 'struggling on short tracks' , like you said ) .

LoonR1 said:

I'm obviously talking about modern racers.

oh !
NOW I see .



well done on avoiding the 120 struggling on short track riders , tho !

Let's have another go at this shall we. We clearly have different definitions of success. I don't subscribe to the "it's the taking part that counts, so we're all going to get prizes" mentality. If a road racer is winning those races, the to be described as successful in short circuit racing they should also be winning those races / championships. McGuiness was and is still winning road races, the most recent thing he did on your list was come 3rd in the 2nd tier 1000cc championship. Other than that it's trundling round at the back of the field. That's not saying he isn't a brilliant rider, it it is saying his road success does not translate to track success. Macau is a road race btw.

[tight5]

yeah , the loser !
not thrashing the best riders in the world when he's got a wildcard !
( I'm sure the bikes are equal , too )

winning championships ?
no mention of his brit 250cc win !

macau IS a road race !
your argument , however , was SHORT track .

[Biker's Nemesis]

LoonR1 said:

I don't subscribe to the "it's the taking part that counts,

So what are you doing racing?

[LoonR1]

tight5 said:

yeah , the loser !
not thrashing the best riders in the world when he's got a wildcard !
( I'm sure the bikes are equal , too )

winning championships ?
no mention of his brit 250cc win !

macau IS a road race !
your argument , however , was SHORT track .

You used Macau to support his success on short circuit tracks, I pointed out it was a road. The length is immaterial, the point is that tracks are purpose built and have a lot of run off, roads tend not to.

Like I said I define success as winning, not just taking part. He hasn't won to anywhere near the same level that he has on the roads, ergo his road racing success does not translate to short circuits. And going back 15 years was already referenced that it was a long, long time ago. He didn't win his road races 15 years ago, he's still winning them now, or at least up until 2013 with alarming regularity.

Edited by LoonR1 on Thursday 21st August 14:32

[tight5]

LoonR1 said:

The length is immaterial

LoonR1 said:

They tend to struggle on short tracks.

LoonR1 said:

Like I said I define success as winning, not just taking part.

he has won tho ?
even tho that was not your original argument .

LoonR1 said:

They tend to struggle on short tracks.

[LoonR1]

Biker's Nemesis said:

LoonR1 said:

I don't subscribe to the "it's the taking part that counts,

So what are you doing racing?

Having fun and losing. I'm not claiming that finishing 15 places behind some SuperStock racers makes me a success though

[Fleegle]

Biker's Nemesis said:

LoonR1 said:

I don't subscribe to the "it's the taking part that counts,

So what are you doing racing?

Let's review this again after the 13th

[scunnylad]

Don't know where you were in the 90's but the 250cc championship was a keenly fought series with some excellent riders and was a stepping stone to British superbikes and gp's rather like superstort/ superstock are these days.Mcg will never win another short circuit title but with a British title,3rd in superstock and top ten for a few years he has had more success than 90% of the short circuit riders have in British championships,hardly struggling in my book.
Do you honestly think that unless you have won the premier bsb title you are struggling as a racer?X

You name some riders as succesful on the roads,Cummins,amor,William Dunlop,Martin,none of whom have won a tt yet,walker,brooks,ellison etc are not succesful because they haven't won a bsb title?

[LoonR1]

This is clearly difficult for you all to grasp. Success is winning maybe just races rather than championships but it's winning.

There are many road racers who are winning races. Few if any of these are winning races on short circuits. And vice versa. You don't see any who are short circuit specialists going to roads but you do see roads coming to circuits.

My point is McG is still winning on roads he isn't winning on tracks the last success of note was 5 years ago in a lower class.

[LoonR1]

I'll stick by my view that no more than one top level road racer will ever bother the podium at a top level short circuit race in the next decade. Here's one for you Michael Dunlop seems to be the dogs on roads, so when will a top level circuit team pick him up to ride for them? Will Milwaukee Yamaha do it as they seem to like to run in both disciplines. What about Dean Harrison. He is likely to be the top road racer for years to come. Will we see him on short circuits?

Will Dan Linfoot or Danny Buchan pop over and do the TT? I can tell you that Joe Burns comment was "Not in a million years, it scares the st out of me" he would do Macau though but they won't let him until he's tasted success at the the TT.

My point is that the current crop of new and established road racers will not succeed at short circuit racing today.

[Fleegle]

I think Danny Buchan is in the same camp as Joe Burns

[Biker's Nemesis]

Fleegle said:

I think Danny Buchan is in the same camp as Joe Burns

....And I have kicked Joe Burns arse on a few occasions.

[Biker's Nemesis]

LoonR1 said:

Having fun and losing. I'm not claiming that finishing 15 places behind some SuperStock racers makes me a success though

I know sweet cheeks, I saw a cheap shot and took it.

[Allyc85]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115468

Really?!