The "official" Knockhill track day thread 2014

[v60marko]

v60marko said:

moanthebairns said:

v60marko said:

moanthebairns said:

v60marko said:

HOW5ER said:

v60marko said:

By the way MTB, remember you need a 16a socket for your tyre warmers, if you get them for the 7th

I too dodnt know this, So I need to get a 16a socket cross over to 13a plug right?

Yep, like this

im sure I seen people plug them straight in with a 13 amp plug

You could be right.. But I noticed on a photo a few days ago that they had the 16a type sockets, I gave them a call and they confirmed... Maybe there are 13a ones too though

http://www.knockhill.com/wordpress/2011/03/weve-go...

find out tomorrow will you and where do you buy two of these?

Will do bud, I made my own, just buy the 16a plug and wire it onto the end of a 13a multi socket

They have a few regular 13a sockets there, but not very many. I think they can supply the 16a plugs / leads if you don't have them too

[moanthebairns]

how was it last night?

[v60marko]

Perfect weather. Tricky session for me due to the new tyres. Felt like I was on a different bike, first 40 minutes it felt like I was getting every corner wrong, had no confidence at all. It all clicked though and the second half was way better. Bike needs some adjustment to compensate for the increased ride height at the rear, it's turning in way too quick and the back is going very light under braking. Lots of crashers too, at least 4 red flags I think...

[moanthebairns]

what do you mean the back is going light under braking?

Forgive my ignorance but your braking...the load is always going to transfer to the front under heavy braking.

[v60marko]

moanthebairns said:

what do you mean the back is going light under braking?

Forgive my ignorance but your braking...the load is always going to transfer to the front under heavy braking.

It was only doing it in one place, coming through seats curves and then braking for scotsmans corner. Back end snaking and feeling like it was trying to overtake the front.

[Prof Prolapse]

Try lying back.

Or being fatter.

[moanthebairns]

would expect it at the hairpin and into duffus but not at Scotsman, its a braking zone but not a harsh one. I dunno, ask on line, could be a number of things.

[v60marko]

It's not a hard braking zone, but unlike the hairpin / duffus I am leant over and cornering whilst braking. It could be a number of things but because the ride height is the only change from last time out, I'm going to put it down to that. Dropping forks a little through yokes should solve it and the unwanted faster turn in

[moanthebairns]

v60marko said:

It's not a hard braking zone, but unlike the hairpin / duffus I am leant over and cornering whilst braking. It could be a number of things but because the ride height is the only change from last time out, I'm going to put it down to that. Dropping forks a little through yokes should solve it and the unwanted faster turn in

? you leant over whilst braking? where are you applying the braking?

I assumed trail braking but you'd be doing that at the hairpin at least.

[HOW5ER]

moanthebairns said:

Its not the riding in the rain, its the cold, around there it can get really Baltic. We are getting close to freezing at night here, in a months time, count me out.

The missus keeps rambling on about this indian summer......Heres hoping eh!

[v60marko]

moanthebairns said:

v60marko said:

It's not a hard braking zone, but unlike the hairpin / duffus I am leant over and cornering whilst braking. It could be a number of things but because the ride height is the only change from last time out, I'm going to put it down to that. Dropping forks a little through yokes should solve it and the unwanted faster turn in

? you leant over whilst braking? where are you applying the braking?

I assumed trail braking but you'd be doing that at the hairpin at least.

Basically I come through the left hander approaching Scotsmans in 3rd on the throttle, then just before I sit it up I'm braking and down to second for the direction change into Scotsmans. Between those 2 corners I'm never going in a straight line (if that makes sense), its a flip flop direction change from one to the other. Hence why I am braking whilst slightly leant over / cornering.

[moanthebairns]

v60marko said:

moanthebairns said:

v60marko said:

It's not a hard braking zone, but unlike the hairpin / duffus I am leant over and cornering whilst braking. It could be a number of things but because the ride height is the only change from last time out, I'm going to put it down to that. Dropping forks a little through yokes should solve it and the unwanted faster turn in

? you leant over whilst braking? where are you applying the braking?

I assumed trail braking but you'd be doing that at the hairpin at least.

Basically I come through the left hander approaching Scotsmans in 3rd on the throttle, then just before I sit it up I'm braking and down to second for the direction change into Scotsmans. Between those 2 corners I'm never going in a straight line (if that makes sense), its a flip flop direction change from one to the other. Hence why I am braking whilst slightly leant over / cornering.

"Sounds" like your dumping it down the box. Have you started to rev match on down shift yet, I seen you on your first track day and could hear and see that you were just banging it down the gears without a blip, you could see the gear change unsettle the bike.

I suspect this is what is happening if you aren't already rev matching. That would describe the back snaking certainly.

Entry into duffus dip is around 65-80 at an inters pace give or take, as you turn into Scotsman, which is a bugger to loose speed on, your doing 65-70 ish on turn in, no idea what it is at fast pace... You don't change gear during duffus, your doing far too much to the bike, turning, sitting it up, throttle on, braking in such a short space to add a gear change is too much, certainly at inters level. No idea why you are changing gear there as the Scotsman is almost the same speed as entry into duffus.

you a) go down to second like I do for duffus then up to 3rd as your leaving Scotsman or b) sit in 3rd all the way through it. Depends how your bike is geared also but typically you are only using 2 gears around knockhill.

Down the straight I'm in 4th, hitting 130 mph give or take,
see the bridge,
count one, then braking and blipping, down two,
I'm in second into and through duffus,
third after Scotsman,
third through the chicane, entry decent throttle, almost closed as I steal both kerbs, or try to, (almost closed, why? I was told I was being far too greedy with the throttle there and sure to bin it, I suspect the same happened to leighz)
third into clarks,
then 4th onto hizzys the back straight,
down to second for the hairpin, close throttle until the apex, only real corner I get almost to the apex trail braking on as to ste to do it elsewhere,
the back up to fourth on the straight.

of course your bike with be different to mines, but it gives you an idea of the gear change places.

I talked and worked on this with Niall Mckenzie and he agreed with most, only exception being that he suggested leaving it in third into duffus, it was too far out the rev range and felt st so that's why I use second.

This might be of help, it might not, you might be much faster than me.

[v60marko]

moanthebairns said:

v60marko said:

moanthebairns said:

v60marko said:

It's not a hard braking zone, but unlike the hairpin / duffus I am leant over and cornering whilst braking. It could be a number of things but because the ride height is the only change from last time out, I'm going to put it down to that. Dropping forks a little through yokes should solve it and the unwanted faster turn in

? you leant over whilst braking? where are you applying the braking?

I assumed trail braking but you'd be doing that at the hairpin at least.

Basically I come through the left hander approaching Scotsmans in 3rd on the throttle, then just before I sit it up I'm braking and down to second for the direction change into Scotsmans. Between those 2 corners I'm never going in a straight line (if that makes sense), its a flip flop direction change from one to the other. Hence why I am braking whilst slightly leant over / cornering.

"Sounds" like your dumping it down the box. Have you started to rev match on down shift yet, I seen you on your first track day and could hear and see that you were just banging it down the gears without a blip, you could see the gear change unsettle the bike.

I suspect this is what is happening if you aren't already rev matching. That would describe the back snaking certainly.

Entry into duffus dip is around 65-80 at an inters pace give or take, as you turn into Scotsman, which is a bugger to loose speed on, your doing 65-70 ish on turn in, no idea what it is at fast pace... You don't change gear during duffus, your doing far too much to the bike, turning, sitting it up, throttle on, braking in such a short space to add a gear change is too much, certainly at inters level. No idea why you are changing gear there as the Scotsman is almost the same speed as entry into duffus.

you a) go down to second like I do for duffus then up to 3rd as your leaving Scotsman or b) sit in 3rd all the way through it. Depends how your bike is geared also but typically you are only using 2 gears around knockhill.

Down the straight I'm in 4th, hitting 130 mph give or take,
see the bridge,
count one, then braking and blipping, down two,
I'm in second into and through duffus,
third after Scotsman,
third through the chicane, entry decent throttle, almost closed as I steal both kerbs, or try to, (almost closed, why? I was told I was being far too greedy with the throttle there and sure to bin it, I suspect the same happened to leighz)
third into clarks,
then 4th onto hizzys the back straight,
down to second for the hairpin, close throttle until the apex, only real corner I get almost to the apex trail braking on as to ste to do it elsewhere,
the back up to fourth on the straight.

of course your bike with be different to mines, but it gives you an idea of the gear change places.

I talked and worked on this with Niall Mckenzie and he agreed with most, only exception being that he suggested leaving it in third into duffus, it was too far out the rev range and felt st so that's why I use second.

This might be of help, it might not, you might be much faster than me.

Your bike must have well different gearing from mine. I'm well into 5th by the end of the straight, 3rd into and through duffus, 2nd for scotsmans (3rd drags the bike wide and it's sluggish out of the corner), back into 3rd after scotsmans and through chicane. This problem is nowt to do with how or when I change gear as it wasn't happening the last 2 times. I'm pretty confident a small geometry change will settle her again. Oh and that first track day was my first ride in 8 months and with race pattern gears, I also had problems with the clutch lever, which is why I was absolutely pants at changing gear

[moanthebairns]

v60marko said:

Your bike must have well different gearing from mine. I'm well into 5th by the end of the straight, 3rd into and through duffus, 2nd for scotsmans (3rd drags the bike wide and it's sluggish out of the corner), back into 3rd after scotsmans and through chicane. This problem is nowt to do with how or when I change gear as it wasn't happening the last 2 times. I'm pretty confident a small geometry change will settle her again. Oh and that first track day was my first ride in 8 months and with race pattern gears, I also had problems with the clutch lever, which is why I was absolutely pants at changing gear

From what I heard there was no attempt to blip but if you’re doing it I must be mistaken.

If you think that suits your bike changing gear there then I can’t argue, but I was told from several instructors not to do any gear changes in that section you do it all before duffus.

You want to be almost bouncing off the limiter as you start braking into Scotsman I was told.

Same with the cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAYSZeZUq-w

Your pace might be much quicker than mines though so maybe the same rules don’t apply.

[v60marko]

Who knows man... Everyone is different with different bikes / gearing so I guess there is no right or wrong. I did try using 3rd from Duffus all the way out through the chicane, but 3rd was very low revs through Scotsmans, pulled the bike wide and was sluggish on exit, so for me the change to 2nd is the only choice. Second would be way too low a gear for entering Duffus (on my bike).

[moanthebairns]

v60marko said:

Who knows man... Everyone is different with different bikes / gearing so I guess there is no right or wrong. I did try using 3rd from Duffus all the way out through the chicane, but 3rd was very low revs through Scotsmans, pulled the bike wide and was sluggish on exit, so for me the change to 2nd is the only choice. Second would be way too low a gear for entering Duffus (on my bike).

Dunno, what did Niall say on the superbike school day?

[v60marko]

moanthebairns said:

v60marko said:

Who knows man... Everyone is different with different bikes / gearing so I guess there is no right or wrong. I did try using 3rd from Duffus all the way out through the chicane, but 3rd was very low revs through Scotsmans, pulled the bike wide and was sluggish on exit, so for me the change to 2nd is the only choice. Second would be way too low a gear for entering Duffus (on my bike).

Dunno, what did Niall say on the superbike school day?

I never spoke to him directly, but in the morning brief he said you can do it all in one gear (Duffus all the way out through the chicane). I'm sure it's the most fool proof method and I know it can be done as I tried it for a good few laps, but just didn't feel right for me.

[moanthebairns]

v60marko said:

moanthebairns said:

v60marko said:

Who knows man... Everyone is different with different bikes / gearing so I guess there is no right or wrong. I did try using 3rd from Duffus all the way out through the chicane, but 3rd was very low revs through Scotsmans, pulled the bike wide and was sluggish on exit, so for me the change to 2nd is the only choice. Second would be way too low a gear for entering Duffus (on my bike).

Dunno, what did Niall say on the superbike school day?

I never spoke to him directly, but in the morning brief he said you can do it all in one gear (Duffus all the way out through the chicane). I'm sure it's the most fool proof method and I know it can be done as I tried it for a good few laps, but just didn't feel right for me.

did you take any tuition?
Have you got your knee down yet, your Dad said that was one of your goals on the first day, fk I thought my plan was not to crash.

[v60marko]

moanthebairns said:

v60marko said:

moanthebairns said:

v60marko said:

Who knows man... Everyone is different with different bikes / gearing so I guess there is no right or wrong. I did try using 3rd from Duffus all the way out through the chicane, but 3rd was very low revs through Scotsmans, pulled the bike wide and was sluggish on exit, so for me the change to 2nd is the only choice. Second would be way too low a gear for entering Duffus (on my bike).

Dunno, what did Niall say on the superbike school day?

I never spoke to him directly, but in the morning brief he said you can do it all in one gear (Duffus all the way out through the chicane). I'm sure it's the most fool proof method and I know it can be done as I tried it for a good few laps, but just didn't feel right for me.

did you take any tuition?
Have you got your knee down yet, your Dad said that was one of your goals on the first day, fk I thought my plan was not to crash.

Nah not really, they all looked a bit busy all day. Yeah knee has been going down, nothing convincing it just scuffs off the apex at scotsmans and the hairpin every other lap..

Edited by v60marko on Wednesday 27th August 16:38

[HOW5ER]

@moanthebairns what bike do you use at Knockhill?

@Marko Which Sprocktes you using on the Ape? Is your a track only bike? Im considering turning my Gen 1 int o track only.