GSX-R 1000 K5 Coolant is boiling and overflowing
Discussion
Have you checked the operation of the thermostat? Pull it out and pop it in a container of boiling water. If it doesn't open fully, you have found your culpret.
It's not uncommon for thermastats to be unservicable on fit, and i'm pretty sure I used to check them before putting them into a customer's car when i was an apprentice, but I've drunk too much beer since and can't fully remember...
It's not uncommon for thermastats to be unservicable on fit, and i'm pretty sure I used to check them before putting them into a customer's car when i was an apprentice, but I've drunk too much beer since and can't fully remember...
VidalBaboon said:
Have you checked the operation of the thermostat? Pull it out and pop it in a container of boiling water. If it doesn't open fully, you have found your culpret.
It's not uncommon for thermastats to be unservicable on fit, and i'm pretty sure I used to check them before putting them into a customer's car when i was an apprentice, but I've drunk too much beer since and can't fully remember...
My mechanic fitted a brand new thermostat a few weeks ago. That was the first thing we changed. Are you saying that we should check even a new thermostat before fitting?It's not uncommon for thermastats to be unservicable on fit, and i'm pretty sure I used to check them before putting them into a customer's car when i was an apprentice, but I've drunk too much beer since and can't fully remember...
OK i see the point with the thermostat, but I think its working correctly.
From my understanding a thermostat controls when the coolant goes into the radiator to be cooled. Given that the whole radiator is nice and hot at operating temperature - this would suggest that the thermostat is opening and letting water pass into the radiator.
From my understanding a thermostat controls when the coolant goes into the radiator to be cooled. Given that the whole radiator is nice and hot at operating temperature - this would suggest that the thermostat is opening and letting water pass into the radiator.
Stats don't always work correctly when new but that normally means they open and close at the wrong temp. That could explain your cool running if it opens to soon but doesn't explain why it gets hot.
They can also get stuck either open or closed. Which will lead to running real cold or hot.
Were the blades on the water pump metal or plastic ? Plastic ones can sometimes spin on the shaft when the system gets hot.
The strange thing about all this is how its not having the issue all the time. Normally its one thing or another.
They can also get stuck either open or closed. Which will lead to running real cold or hot.
Were the blades on the water pump metal or plastic ? Plastic ones can sometimes spin on the shaft when the system gets hot.
The strange thing about all this is how its not having the issue all the time. Normally its one thing or another.
Hi All,
Thanks for the recent replies and sorry for not replying to them sooner.
I have tested the bike yesterday and to my sadness the problem has returned again!
The blades of the water pump were plastic I think.
I am going to call Aprillia Performance in Tamworth tomorrow and get them to look at it.
Thanks for the recent replies and sorry for not replying to them sooner.
I have tested the bike yesterday and to my sadness the problem has returned again!
The blades of the water pump were plastic I think.
I am going to call Aprillia Performance in Tamworth tomorrow and get them to look at it.
My bet would be head gasket failure which is pressurizing the system when the engine is hot. Many years ago I had a 450 Gas Gas quad that was doing the same thing. Just because there's no oil in it does not mean it's ok, if it fails between the water gallery and the cylinder it will boil the water..............BTW it may only do it under load, i.e. high revs.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Thanks Mike150. My bike doesn't seem to be boiling under load, it boils at idle. When I get moving and the temperature cools, the boiling disappears, even if ridden hard.
Today I spoke to Aprillia Performance on the phone. I explained to them the story and the guy kindly spent more than 20 minutes explaining what it could possible be.
Here's his theory:
1) The bike has a pressure leak somewhere (possibly the radiator) which is causing the water to boil much earlier than it should.
>rationale: A 1.1 bar radiator cap means that the system can hold 1.1 atmospheric pressure and this equates to about 110oC boiling point. However, since my coolant starts boiling around 93oC it means the system is not holding enough pressure and the fluid boils much earlier than it should.
>>Test: He told me to see if the filler neck of the radiator has any dents or to listen for hissing noises from this area while bike is running (preferably using a stethoscope).
>>>Solution: new radiator
2) The thermoswitch (which I presume is attached to the radiator/fan) might be faulty and this could be causing the low running temperatures. Alternatively, low running temp could be due to an efficient radiator (as it was flushed during repair). Though I think it is unlikely to be this, as otherwise I would have noticed this in the first 1.5k since radiator repair.
I will check the radiator filler neck for hissing/leaks, but dont really know where to start with the thermoswitch. I am thinking of just buying a new switch and trying that, as at least it rules it out if problem still occurs.
Anyway, will keep you updated about this strange and stressful saga!
Today I spoke to Aprillia Performance on the phone. I explained to them the story and the guy kindly spent more than 20 minutes explaining what it could possible be.
Here's his theory:
1) The bike has a pressure leak somewhere (possibly the radiator) which is causing the water to boil much earlier than it should.
>rationale: A 1.1 bar radiator cap means that the system can hold 1.1 atmospheric pressure and this equates to about 110oC boiling point. However, since my coolant starts boiling around 93oC it means the system is not holding enough pressure and the fluid boils much earlier than it should.
>>Test: He told me to see if the filler neck of the radiator has any dents or to listen for hissing noises from this area while bike is running (preferably using a stethoscope).
>>>Solution: new radiator
2) The thermoswitch (which I presume is attached to the radiator/fan) might be faulty and this could be causing the low running temperatures. Alternatively, low running temp could be due to an efficient radiator (as it was flushed during repair). Though I think it is unlikely to be this, as otherwise I would have noticed this in the first 1.5k since radiator repair.
I will check the radiator filler neck for hissing/leaks, but dont really know where to start with the thermoswitch. I am thinking of just buying a new switch and trying that, as at least it rules it out if problem still occurs.
Anyway, will keep you updated about this strange and stressful saga!
JimClark49 said:
2) The thermoswitch (which I presume is attached to the radiator/fan) might be faulty and this could be causing the low running temperatures. Alternatively, low running temp could be due to an efficient radiator (as it was flushed during repair). Though I think it is unlikely to be this, as otherwise I would have noticed this in the first 1.5k since radiator repair.
I will check the radiator filler neck for hissing/leaks, but dont really know where to start with the thermoswitch. I am thinking of just buying a new switch and trying that, as at least it rules it out if problem still occurs.
Thermoswitch works on the resistance changing as heats up. Corrosion on it can cause incorrect readings. You could try pulling it out and cleaning it up. I will check the radiator filler neck for hissing/leaks, but dont really know where to start with the thermoswitch. I am thinking of just buying a new switch and trying that, as at least it rules it out if problem still occurs.
It's my feeling that this won't be it by the way!
Wot you need is another bike to borrow bits off!!
Ok just been working on bike this morning. I have bled the bike and the boiling has stopped, but I know that after a few days riding it will return.
Can loss in pressure from cooling systems be gradual, i.e. over a a few successive heat cycles?
I used my mechanical stethoscope to listen for noises near filler neck/radiator cap and although there was clear noise that could be heard, didnt seem to be different from what I could hear in other parts of the radiator.
I am going to see if someone on the GSXR forum has a spare radiator which i could try and see if it makes a difference.
Can loss in pressure from cooling systems be gradual, i.e. over a a few successive heat cycles?
I used my mechanical stethoscope to listen for noises near filler neck/radiator cap and although there was clear noise that could be heard, didnt seem to be different from what I could hear in other parts of the radiator.
I am going to see if someone on the GSXR forum has a spare radiator which i could try and see if it makes a difference.
Hi seeing as you have a spare rad cap why don't you modify it to solid i.e. no leak off pressure and mount a pipe through it and onto an external clock. This way you could monitor the pressure to see if there is a fall off.
Reading through this thread my guess is head gasket. Have you performed a compression test yet?
The reading isn't important it is the variation from cylinder to cylinder that is.
Oh and Hi everyone as this is my first post
Reading through this thread my guess is head gasket. Have you performed a compression test yet?
The reading isn't important it is the variation from cylinder to cylinder that is.
Oh and Hi everyone as this is my first post
I concur re: possible head gasket issues.
I would start by doing a leak down test of the cylinders to make sure they're not pressurising the water system, through a crack or something like that, this will also test the head gasket to make sure it's not letting anything by it shouldn't (you won't necessarily see any emulsion in either the water or oil)
I think running cooler is a red herring personally, I'd be much more concerned over the over heating issue, cooler could just be a tolerance difference between the old and new thermostats
How much (if any) coolant is it using?
I had a similar issue many years ago on a highly tuned FZR1000, where I'd run it and afterwards it would a dump load of coolant on the floor for no apparent reason
(the engine didn't need to be running for the water to puddle underneath the bike, and it wouldn't generally start until the bike had been run hard and then stopped)
it turned out that the overflow pipe in the expansion tank had been pushed too far down into the bottom of the tank, once the bike go up to temperature and filled the expansion tank it syphoned most of the coolant onto the floor.... took ages to diagnose but about 5 seconds to fix.
I would start by doing a leak down test of the cylinders to make sure they're not pressurising the water system, through a crack or something like that, this will also test the head gasket to make sure it's not letting anything by it shouldn't (you won't necessarily see any emulsion in either the water or oil)
I think running cooler is a red herring personally, I'd be much more concerned over the over heating issue, cooler could just be a tolerance difference between the old and new thermostats
How much (if any) coolant is it using?
I had a similar issue many years ago on a highly tuned FZR1000, where I'd run it and afterwards it would a dump load of coolant on the floor for no apparent reason
(the engine didn't need to be running for the water to puddle underneath the bike, and it wouldn't generally start until the bike had been run hard and then stopped)
it turned out that the overflow pipe in the expansion tank had been pushed too far down into the bottom of the tank, once the bike go up to temperature and filled the expansion tank it syphoned most of the coolant onto the floor.... took ages to diagnose but about 5 seconds to fix.
Thanks for the suggestions eldons and biffonracing.
The bike is using no coolant. The resorvoir bottle stays at the correct level until it boils over after about 300 miles of riding.
I have had a car block test done and it came back negative. The mechanic did say that some water got into the tester thingy and might have affected the findings.
It could be the headgasket, but at the moment there are no other signs suggesting this. If all else fails I will have to get a compression check done on the cylinders.
I did remove the engine coolant sensor today and it was covered in a film of limescale. I cleaned it up, applied some ACF50 to it and re-inserted. I might just change it for a new one to rule it out completely.
My thoughts keep making me think that the filler neck of the radiator is warped and is gradually allowing pressure to escape, which means after a few days the system is boiling over. When I bleed the system, the pressure is built back up again, the bike is fine and then the cycle starts again.
The bike is using no coolant. The resorvoir bottle stays at the correct level until it boils over after about 300 miles of riding.
I have had a car block test done and it came back negative. The mechanic did say that some water got into the tester thingy and might have affected the findings.
It could be the headgasket, but at the moment there are no other signs suggesting this. If all else fails I will have to get a compression check done on the cylinders.
I did remove the engine coolant sensor today and it was covered in a film of limescale. I cleaned it up, applied some ACF50 to it and re-inserted. I might just change it for a new one to rule it out completely.
My thoughts keep making me think that the filler neck of the radiator is warped and is gradually allowing pressure to escape, which means after a few days the system is boiling over. When I bleed the system, the pressure is built back up again, the bike is fine and then the cycle starts again.
I presume it works the same as a car. The pressure only builds up when the engine is hot, it goes again when cold.
Remove the cap when cold = nothing happens
Remove it when the engine is hot = it's like opening a bottle of pop and also water can fly out. If you try that be warned you might get a burnt hand.
When you bleed your system your just getting rid of the air that's gone into the system when it's been drained.
Remove the cap when cold = nothing happens
Remove it when the engine is hot = it's like opening a bottle of pop and also water can fly out. If you try that be warned you might get a burnt hand.
When you bleed your system your just getting rid of the air that's gone into the system when it's been drained.
Quick update guys...
Today I decided to remove the radiator and take it to get pressure tested.
First pic shows the repair which developed a crack and would have been leaking tiny amounts of water/coolant.
Second pic shows the repair done by the radiator guys today. When they pressure tested it, they said it was losing only tiny amount of pressure over the hour, which possibly corresponds with why the problem used to occur gradually after 300 miles
I will add coolant tomorrow and then test the bike over the week. Hopefully this will be the end of the issue.
One question: Where do you guys get your coolant from? Will Halfords concentrated antifreeze/coolant be OK?
Today I decided to remove the radiator and take it to get pressure tested.
First pic shows the repair which developed a crack and would have been leaking tiny amounts of water/coolant.
Second pic shows the repair done by the radiator guys today. When they pressure tested it, they said it was losing only tiny amount of pressure over the hour, which possibly corresponds with why the problem used to occur gradually after 300 miles
I will add coolant tomorrow and then test the bike over the week. Hopefully this will be the end of the issue.
One question: Where do you guys get your coolant from? Will Halfords concentrated antifreeze/coolant be OK?
JimClark49 said:
Quick update guys...
Today I decided to remove the radiator and take it to get pressure tested.
First pic shows the repair which developed a crack and would have been leaking tiny amounts of water/coolant.
Second pic shows the repair done by the radiator guys today. When they pressure tested it, they said it was losing only tiny amount of pressure over the hour, which possibly corresponds with why the problem used to occur gradually after 300 miles
I will add coolant tomorrow and then test the bike over the week. Hopefully this will be the end of the issue.
One question: Where do you guys get your coolant from? Will Halfords concentrated antifreeze/coolant be OK?
I have to be honest ive never seen a rad repair like that before, normally I just see people replace the core. Today I decided to remove the radiator and take it to get pressure tested.
First pic shows the repair which developed a crack and would have been leaking tiny amounts of water/coolant.
Second pic shows the repair done by the radiator guys today. When they pressure tested it, they said it was losing only tiny amount of pressure over the hour, which possibly corresponds with why the problem used to occur gradually after 300 miles
I will add coolant tomorrow and then test the bike over the week. Hopefully this will be the end of the issue.
One question: Where do you guys get your coolant from? Will Halfords concentrated antifreeze/coolant be OK?
Anyway hope it works and your get riding again. As for the anti freeze check the spec and how much you need in your handbook. Halfrauds or a local place will have what you need.
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