GSX-R 1000 K5 Coolant is boiling and overflowing
Discussion
Hi Guys,
In the winter I had my radiator repaired as the fan rubbing against it caused damage to it. The bike was fine for 1.5 thousand miles after which the coolant would boil and then overflow out of the expansion bottle after switching bike off (coolant tempreature would be about 100 degrees)
Anyway, mechanic drained and filled with distilled water and previous coolant (thus, not a full 50:50 mix) and I have been running the bike for the last week (~300 miles covered) only for the boiling noise to 'mildly' start to appear again (but no discharge so far).
Here is a summary of what has been done to the bike since the problem began:
- Thermostat replaced
- Radiator cap replaced
- All hoses checked for leaks and none found
- mechanic checked that there is no oil in water
- radiator drained and then refilled, bled via screw under petrol tank as per service book
Note 1: Bike used to run at 74 degrees when riding, but now runs 64 degrees (this could be due to the fact that their is more water than coolant in mix). But its strange that its operating temperature is 10 degrees lower than before
Note 2: Mechanic doesnt no what else could be causing boiling coolant and after he bled it, it disappears. Thus, air is gradually being re-introduced as I do successive rides.
> My plan is to put the correct 50:50 mix of coolant/distilled water this week.
> But I also want to rule out headgasket damage, before I start replacing water pump or other coolant components
>Is there a kit available to detect exhaust gases in radiator fluid? I don't have a smoking exhaust, nor any loss in performance.
I am VERY frustrated with this issue at the moment. I am even thinking that I may have to live with it, and just wire the fan so I can manually overide it.
Any opinions on what steps I can take to solve the problem are greatly appreciated.
In the winter I had my radiator repaired as the fan rubbing against it caused damage to it. The bike was fine for 1.5 thousand miles after which the coolant would boil and then overflow out of the expansion bottle after switching bike off (coolant tempreature would be about 100 degrees)
Anyway, mechanic drained and filled with distilled water and previous coolant (thus, not a full 50:50 mix) and I have been running the bike for the last week (~300 miles covered) only for the boiling noise to 'mildly' start to appear again (but no discharge so far).
Here is a summary of what has been done to the bike since the problem began:
- Thermostat replaced
- Radiator cap replaced
- All hoses checked for leaks and none found
- mechanic checked that there is no oil in water
- radiator drained and then refilled, bled via screw under petrol tank as per service book
Note 1: Bike used to run at 74 degrees when riding, but now runs 64 degrees (this could be due to the fact that their is more water than coolant in mix). But its strange that its operating temperature is 10 degrees lower than before
Note 2: Mechanic doesnt no what else could be causing boiling coolant and after he bled it, it disappears. Thus, air is gradually being re-introduced as I do successive rides.
> My plan is to put the correct 50:50 mix of coolant/distilled water this week.
> But I also want to rule out headgasket damage, before I start replacing water pump or other coolant components
>Is there a kit available to detect exhaust gases in radiator fluid? I don't have a smoking exhaust, nor any loss in performance.
I am VERY frustrated with this issue at the moment. I am even thinking that I may have to live with it, and just wire the fan so I can manually overide it.
Any opinions on what steps I can take to solve the problem are greatly appreciated.
Pre radiator change the bike was perfect?
All you've done is change the rad and the problem has arisen, therefor no need to change the stat etc etc however now you've done that that may be why the temp is lower when running - did you check it against the old stat?
Coolant mix won't make much difference.
It may have not been bled right, or the repair was s
t?
All you've done is change the rad and the problem has arisen, therefor no need to change the stat etc etc however now you've done that that may be why the temp is lower when running - did you check it against the old stat?
Coolant mix won't make much difference.
It may have not been bled right, or the repair was s
t? Yes no problems before radiator change, and then no problems for 1.5k afterwards. The repair seems ok, because their is no leaking from where it was repaired. However, it could be a possibility as it is the only changed factor in all of this.
To be honest my mechanic kept the old thermostat so i cant really compare it to new one.
edited to add: I took the bike to the mechanic on two seperate occasions, and both times he bled it. Their was no boiling/overflowing for about 200 miles, and then it would slowly come back. This indicates that it is bled correctly, but air is coming in from somewhere over a few heat cycles.
To be honest my mechanic kept the old thermostat so i cant really compare it to new one.
edited to add: I took the bike to the mechanic on two seperate occasions, and both times he bled it. Their was no boiling/overflowing for about 200 miles, and then it would slowly come back. This indicates that it is bled correctly, but air is coming in from somewhere over a few heat cycles.
Edited by JimClark49 on Sunday 13th April 13:33
If it's still doing it your going to waste your time putting the correct mix of coolant in before you sort the problem.
After it's been bled and it's running ok does the coolant level go down when you have the problem ?
The difference in temp it's running could be down to the rad, I presume all the fins will now be clear. Before probably full of crap dead flys etc. The stat could also be the cause of this.
After it's been bled and it's running ok does the coolant level go down when you have the problem ?
The difference in temp it's running could be down to the rad, I presume all the fins will now be clear. Before probably full of crap dead flys etc. The stat could also be the cause of this.
The fact the rad was changed 1,500 miles ago may well NOT be linked to the issue you have now.
Looking at what you've changed, id say the likely culprit is the head gasket, as you hint, you can get the coolant checked to see if teh head gasket is going/gone, id do that first before anything else.
Looking at what you've changed, id say the likely culprit is the head gasket, as you hint, you can get the coolant checked to see if teh head gasket is going/gone, id do that first before anything else.
My h/g in my vw golf had a pinhole size leak in it. Essentially exhaust gas pressurised the coolant forcing it out the over flow. I check everything in coolant system before getting the mechanic to do a h/g...
N.b hard to tell if my coolant was boiling as often the coolant had gone before I could see what was happening
N.b hard to tell if my coolant was boiling as often the coolant had gone before I could see what was happening
Edited by topsprayer on Sunday 13th April 18:33
I assume it has a header tank? Run the engine with the header tank cap off, it should get up to temperature eventually. When you blip the throttle see what the level does: if it just swirls and froths a bit that's normal circulation caused by the water pump: if it spews everywhere I'd say you are looking at a head gasket.
You can do a chemical test to detect hydrocarbons in the water, I've not seen a DIY kit but there must be something out there for garages to buy.
If you can find one you could also try a coolant pressure tester: usually screws on in place of the pressure cap and lets you either measure system pressure when running (so if it gets to 5 Bar or something daft you have a problem) and also, with the engine stopped, lets you pump up the coolant system to operating pressure (and beyond) which will let you see if the pressure holds, it then lets you look for leaks on a cold engine which is always more pleasant.
You can do a chemical test to detect hydrocarbons in the water, I've not seen a DIY kit but there must be something out there for garages to buy.
If you can find one you could also try a coolant pressure tester: usually screws on in place of the pressure cap and lets you either measure system pressure when running (so if it gets to 5 Bar or something daft you have a problem) and also, with the engine stopped, lets you pump up the coolant system to operating pressure (and beyond) which will let you see if the pressure holds, it then lets you look for leaks on a cold engine which is always more pleasant.
I've had similar issues recently as my coolant kept overflowing. In the end I changed the rad cap and all is now well. Initially I tried a used one from a kind soul on another forum. The same thing kept happening so I thought 2 x rad caps meant that it must be a HGF. Brand new cap was a last resort and seems to have stopped the problem.
Get the system pressure tested if you can. Iirc you can also test it while running to see if excess pressure is being built up or if it fluctuates. Rad caps can also be pressure tested.
Are there any tell take signs of coolant leaking from the system? Coolant coloured stains near the leak.
Some bikes have drain holes near the pump. If the pump is damaged then coolant leaks from this hole. It's under the sump on my R1.
You can get a "block tester" kit that uses fluid to detect if there's exhaust gases in the coolant. Not sure how accurate they are though.
Has the fan been wired correctly? It's meant to blow air towards the engine not suck it forwards.
It could also be an internal blockage in the radiator due to work you have had done.
Temperature sensor may also be faulty if it's not reading correctly.
Gurgling may also be caused by air still in the system. Has it been bled properly? I like to lean it from side to side repeatedly when filling.
Have fun.....
Get the system pressure tested if you can. Iirc you can also test it while running to see if excess pressure is being built up or if it fluctuates. Rad caps can also be pressure tested.
Are there any tell take signs of coolant leaking from the system? Coolant coloured stains near the leak.
Some bikes have drain holes near the pump. If the pump is damaged then coolant leaks from this hole. It's under the sump on my R1.
You can get a "block tester" kit that uses fluid to detect if there's exhaust gases in the coolant. Not sure how accurate they are though.
Has the fan been wired correctly? It's meant to blow air towards the engine not suck it forwards.
It could also be an internal blockage in the radiator due to work you have had done.
Temperature sensor may also be faulty if it's not reading correctly.
Gurgling may also be caused by air still in the system. Has it been bled properly? I like to lean it from side to side repeatedly when filling.
Have fun.....
Thanks for the many excellent replies guys.
With regards to the headgasket - the oil looks normal (brown colour, not milky), the mechanic said their was no oil in the water of radiator, and there is no smoke from the exhaust (except some initial condensation on startup).
Also, I have done 7.5k miles on the bike, and not once have I done anything which would cause a headgasket failure i.e. I have never let it overheat, and it is always warmed up before riding hard. I always thought headgaskets failed if you let the engine overheat.
The thermostat is new, so I cant see how it could give a faulty reading. I think the low reading is either due to an efficient radiator (as it was flushed when repaired), or air in the system messing up the temp reading.
The fan is wired correctly and kicks in when it should. It is sucking air towards engine and does cool the bike down correctly.
I hope to ride it more in the next few days and will see if the problem gets worse.
With regards to the headgasket - the oil looks normal (brown colour, not milky), the mechanic said their was no oil in the water of radiator, and there is no smoke from the exhaust (except some initial condensation on startup).
Also, I have done 7.5k miles on the bike, and not once have I done anything which would cause a headgasket failure i.e. I have never let it overheat, and it is always warmed up before riding hard. I always thought headgaskets failed if you let the engine overheat.
The thermostat is new, so I cant see how it could give a faulty reading. I think the low reading is either due to an efficient radiator (as it was flushed when repaired), or air in the system messing up the temp reading.
The fan is wired correctly and kicks in when it should. It is sucking air towards engine and does cool the bike down correctly.
I hope to ride it more in the next few days and will see if the problem gets worse.
JimClark49 said:
Thanks for the many excellent replies guys.
With regards to the headgasket - the oil looks normal (brown colour, not milky), the mechanic said their was no oil in the water of radiator, and there is no smoke from the exhaust (except some initial condensation on startup).
Also, I have done 7.5k miles on the bike, and not once have I done anything which would cause a headgasket failure i.e. I have never let it overheat, and it is always warmed up before riding hard. I always thought headgaskets failed if you let the engine overheat.
The thermostat is new, so I cant see how it could give a faulty reading. I think the low reading is either due to an efficient radiator (as it was flushed when repaired), or air in the system messing up the temp reading.
The fan is wired correctly and kicks in when it should. It is sucking air towards engine and does cool the bike down correctly.
I hope to ride it more in the next few days and will see if the problem gets worse.
If your getting water in the oil it can change as you say and it will go like mayo, keep a eye on your oil level to if its going up then that will give you another indication. With regards to the headgasket - the oil looks normal (brown colour, not milky), the mechanic said their was no oil in the water of radiator, and there is no smoke from the exhaust (except some initial condensation on startup).
Also, I have done 7.5k miles on the bike, and not once have I done anything which would cause a headgasket failure i.e. I have never let it overheat, and it is always warmed up before riding hard. I always thought headgaskets failed if you let the engine overheat.
The thermostat is new, so I cant see how it could give a faulty reading. I think the low reading is either due to an efficient radiator (as it was flushed when repaired), or air in the system messing up the temp reading.
The fan is wired correctly and kicks in when it should. It is sucking air towards engine and does cool the bike down correctly.
I hope to ride it more in the next few days and will see if the problem gets worse.
Head gaskets correct they can blow when overheated but can just fail anyway to.
Stats can be pretty crap tbh maybe you have a dodgy one or like you say because the rad was done. I know on my K7 600 the running temp changes a lot depending on the outside temp. Maybe its just that.
The strange thing is you say its fine then after a few weeks it starts doing it. Normally something like this will happen all the time.
Ok, so I did alot of miles with the bike today, and the problem is still there. So basically once it is bled it is fine, but after a few rides air is getting into the system again and causing the coolant to boil.
I took it to my mechanic late afternoon and we discussed some more about it.
He told me that it wont be the radiator as radiator fins wont suck air in to a pressurized system. Also, if the area where it was repaired had a hole, then water would leak from that hole, yet there is no leak anywhere on the radiator.
One suggestion was the water pump. If it creates air bubbles in the coolant, then the gradual build up of these could cause air to be in the fluid.
He is going to speak to some colleagues who work on race bikes etc. to see if they have come across this problem and what a solution can be.
In the meantime he has suggested that I top up with distilled water everytime.
I took it to my mechanic late afternoon and we discussed some more about it.
He told me that it wont be the radiator as radiator fins wont suck air in to a pressurized system. Also, if the area where it was repaired had a hole, then water would leak from that hole, yet there is no leak anywhere on the radiator.
One suggestion was the water pump. If it creates air bubbles in the coolant, then the gradual build up of these could cause air to be in the fluid.
He is going to speak to some colleagues who work on race bikes etc. to see if they have come across this problem and what a solution can be.
In the meantime he has suggested that I top up with distilled water everytime.
Sounds like poor circulation / partial blockage in system somewhere to me. (Edit either air or some of the "repair" is got stuck somewhere?).
Might explain lower initial rad temperature, eventual boiling and cavitation by the water pump. I would first try a 1.2 bar rad cap rather than the normal 1.1 bar job - bit more pressure might solve it, otherwise I'd pull the cooling system to bits as best I could.
Might explain lower initial rad temperature, eventual boiling and cavitation by the water pump. I would first try a 1.2 bar rad cap rather than the normal 1.1 bar job - bit more pressure might solve it, otherwise I'd pull the cooling system to bits as best I could.
moto_traxport said:
Sounds like poor circulation / partial blockage in system somewhere to me. (Edit either air or some of the "repair" is got stuck somewhere?).
Might explain lower initial rad temperature, eventual boiling and cavitation by the water pump. I would first try a 1.2 bar rad cap rather than the normal 1.1 bar job - bit more pressure might solve it, otherwise I'd pull the cooling system to bits as best I could.
Thanks for the suggestion mate. Where could I get a 1.2 bar rad cap that fits my bike? Might explain lower initial rad temperature, eventual boiling and cavitation by the water pump. I would first try a 1.2 bar rad cap rather than the normal 1.1 bar job - bit more pressure might solve it, otherwise I'd pull the cooling system to bits as best I could.
When my head gasket went there was no water in oil vice versa they wouldn't of been able to mix. It was pretty much undetectable other than my coolant disappearing ( not through the exhaust). Car wasn't overheated and had a v good service history. It was one of those things. (Never buy a mk 4 golf gt tdi 115 high chance of hug failure around 110 k miles!).
JimClark49 said:
moto_traxport said:
Sounds like poor circulation / partial blockage in system somewhere to me. (Edit either air or some of the "repair" is got stuck somewhere?).
Might explain lower initial rad temperature, eventual boiling and cavitation by the water pump. I would first try a 1.2 bar rad cap rather than the normal 1.1 bar job - bit more pressure might solve it, otherwise I'd pull the cooling system to bits as best I could.
Thanks for the suggestion mate. Where could I get a 1.2 bar rad cap that fits my bike? Might explain lower initial rad temperature, eventual boiling and cavitation by the water pump. I would first try a 1.2 bar rad cap rather than the normal 1.1 bar job - bit more pressure might solve it, otherwise I'd pull the cooling system to bits as best I could.
Quick update...
Yesterday evening my friend (competent home mechanic) and me did some further testing. We disconnected different hoses and sealed a garden hose to pass water through the cooling system (including radiator) and there was very good flow and no sign of any blockages.
We then opened up the water pump to inspect it, and it looked good. There was no broken blades and it turned freely when we turned the back wheel (while in gear).
Thus, it seems the headgasket is the only logical explanation. We have a mechanic friend who will do a block test in the coolant tomorrow to detect evidence of any exhaust gases in coolant. Hopefully, I will have more of an idea on what is the cause after this and can plan on getting it sorted.
PS: if it is a headgasket, is there anything I can do to increase performance while the head is off?
Yesterday evening my friend (competent home mechanic) and me did some further testing. We disconnected different hoses and sealed a garden hose to pass water through the cooling system (including radiator) and there was very good flow and no sign of any blockages.
We then opened up the water pump to inspect it, and it looked good. There was no broken blades and it turned freely when we turned the back wheel (while in gear).
Thus, it seems the headgasket is the only logical explanation. We have a mechanic friend who will do a block test in the coolant tomorrow to detect evidence of any exhaust gases in coolant. Hopefully, I will have more of an idea on what is the cause after this and can plan on getting it sorted.
PS: if it is a headgasket, is there anything I can do to increase performance while the head is off?
Hi all,
Had block test done today and it came back negative (i.e no colour change). So head gasket is likely to be good.
My friends mechanic swapped the radiator cap to a TLR 1000's (which is the same pressure rating as the GSXR -1.1 bar) and the discharge stopped and the cooling system was behaving properly. When they put my cap back on it continued to behave itself.
Some theories:
1) When the radiator was refurbed maybe the area where the radiator cap goes was distorted (perhaps it was dropped in the workshop?). This might not allow the cap to seal properly causing my problems.
2) A different rad cap (the TL had a thicker seal), may have pressurized the system correctly and dislodged a blockage. This in turn could be making the cooling system perform correctly (I am sincerely hoping that this was the cause).
The next step is to let everything cool and then heat the bike up again tomorrow to see if it behaves itself.
At the moment everything is pointing to a defect in the radiator, rather than the engine - which is a massive relief for me.
Had block test done today and it came back negative (i.e no colour change). So head gasket is likely to be good.
My friends mechanic swapped the radiator cap to a TLR 1000's (which is the same pressure rating as the GSXR -1.1 bar) and the discharge stopped and the cooling system was behaving properly. When they put my cap back on it continued to behave itself.
Some theories:
1) When the radiator was refurbed maybe the area where the radiator cap goes was distorted (perhaps it was dropped in the workshop?). This might not allow the cap to seal properly causing my problems.
2) A different rad cap (the TL had a thicker seal), may have pressurized the system correctly and dislodged a blockage. This in turn could be making the cooling system perform correctly (I am sincerely hoping that this was the cause).
The next step is to let everything cool and then heat the bike up again tomorrow to see if it behaves itself.
At the moment everything is pointing to a defect in the radiator, rather than the engine - which is a massive relief for me.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff