Serious advice needed: Super Blackbird as first bike???
Discussion
TheCarMadDad said:
Chaps,
Thanks very much for the honest replies. After much thought I think I will be getting it. However, I'm going to be sensible about it. I'll put her in my garage and work on her for a while, I'm in no rush. Whilst I'm bringing her back up to scratch I'll buy something with tax/test just to get some more experience. And when I feel ready, and only then, will I take the bird out and gradually get to know the fat heffer. I will also put a restrictor kit on for as long as it takes.
How do restrictor kits work exactly?
You really don't need a restrictor, you just need saddle time to build up your experience. It's not just the power, it's the weight. Thanks very much for the honest replies. After much thought I think I will be getting it. However, I'm going to be sensible about it. I'll put her in my garage and work on her for a while, I'm in no rush. Whilst I'm bringing her back up to scratch I'll buy something with tax/test just to get some more experience. And when I feel ready, and only then, will I take the bird out and gradually get to know the fat heffer. I will also put a restrictor kit on for as long as it takes.
How do restrictor kits work exactly?
You've got the right attitude, it'll all come together in time
The big problems are not that bikes are difficult to ride (well at least to a point you can "operate" them pretty efficiently), but :
1 - When things start to go wrong on a bike, it all happens rather faster than things go wrong in a car. A bike goes from "everythings ok" to "s
t" in literally, a heartbeat. That includes stuff out of your control like cars changing lanes, pulling out ect. Until you develop that "spider sense" when you know the guy staring at you hasn't seen you but is looking right through you, the car on front you want to pass is about to turn right into a driveway as they're just slightly under the speed limit and dawdling in the middle of the road, or the car about to pull out from their lane into yours as yours is clear ahead and you just spot the turn of the wheels, the puff of exhaust plume, thats what keeps you safe. Nothing to do with "square tyres" or your own riding. Thats the experience you need to ride a bike.
2- When things go wrong on a bike, it is rahter harder to "save" the situation as it is in a car. Once you brake hard in panic on a corner, standing up the bike, your never going to get round it if too fast, its counter intuitive after a car with nice safe under/oversteer. Ditto losing the front wheel, or even the back, really. (I talk as a mortal, and not a riding god such as some on these forums. I only use the bike for commuting and would categorise my skillset as fairly low). With a Super Blackbird, your basic parameters for it going wrong are just set a bit higher, thats all - clumsy throttle/brakes or getting all that weight wrong simply mean you have less margin to get away with it. I can be as a poor rider, a bit ham fisted on the SV650, but its a lovely, forgiving bike, which largely puts up with me without too much complaint! double the power, and a throttle mismatch on a damp corner might which the SV gets on with, might just dump me off a 140 bhp bike.
3 - Bikes ARE fun. The adreneline rush of hard acceleration, or just cranking open the throttle on a long straight dry piece of road is ALWAYS a temptation. Bikers are no different to dogs who hang their heads out of car windows really. IF you think you can control that, then fine, but if you then become "too" cautious, you will also create some danger for yourself through uncertainty of actions with other road users. And if your unhappy on the bike, through fear of the "what if?" whats the point anyway. If you find you'd prefer as a first big bike something more forgiving, thats not a bad thing, its pragmatic, thats all.
The basic rule to remember, is that EVERYTHING you do on a bike, is YOUR decision. If you go for that overtake, its YOUR decision that you have enough space to do so, that you already planned it out in your head, and were already in the right gear with clear mirrors before you went for it. My cousin in law just lost a brother, a reasonably experienced biker, in a head on with a lorry. Overtook, when couldnt see it was safe to do so, and died for the decision. Was just out on a sunday am early morning fun ride on a super sports bike. He didn't die because he was a biker, he died because he mad 1 bad decision, one which he'd never have made in a car. Its the environment and risk assessment that is dangerous, nor riding itself. Your choice of bike might influence your perception of what you can or cant get away safely with.
Thats my thoughts - others will be along to criticise it later.
1 - When things start to go wrong on a bike, it all happens rather faster than things go wrong in a car. A bike goes from "everythings ok" to "s
t" in literally, a heartbeat. That includes stuff out of your control like cars changing lanes, pulling out ect. Until you develop that "spider sense" when you know the guy staring at you hasn't seen you but is looking right through you, the car on front you want to pass is about to turn right into a driveway as they're just slightly under the speed limit and dawdling in the middle of the road, or the car about to pull out from their lane into yours as yours is clear ahead and you just spot the turn of the wheels, the puff of exhaust plume, thats what keeps you safe. Nothing to do with "square tyres" or your own riding. Thats the experience you need to ride a bike. 2- When things go wrong on a bike, it is rahter harder to "save" the situation as it is in a car. Once you brake hard in panic on a corner, standing up the bike, your never going to get round it if too fast, its counter intuitive after a car with nice safe under/oversteer. Ditto losing the front wheel, or even the back, really. (I talk as a mortal, and not a riding god such as some on these forums. I only use the bike for commuting and would categorise my skillset as fairly low). With a Super Blackbird, your basic parameters for it going wrong are just set a bit higher, thats all - clumsy throttle/brakes or getting all that weight wrong simply mean you have less margin to get away with it. I can be as a poor rider, a bit ham fisted on the SV650, but its a lovely, forgiving bike, which largely puts up with me without too much complaint! double the power, and a throttle mismatch on a damp corner might which the SV gets on with, might just dump me off a 140 bhp bike.
3 - Bikes ARE fun. The adreneline rush of hard acceleration, or just cranking open the throttle on a long straight dry piece of road is ALWAYS a temptation. Bikers are no different to dogs who hang their heads out of car windows really. IF you think you can control that, then fine, but if you then become "too" cautious, you will also create some danger for yourself through uncertainty of actions with other road users. And if your unhappy on the bike, through fear of the "what if?" whats the point anyway. If you find you'd prefer as a first big bike something more forgiving, thats not a bad thing, its pragmatic, thats all.
The basic rule to remember, is that EVERYTHING you do on a bike, is YOUR decision. If you go for that overtake, its YOUR decision that you have enough space to do so, that you already planned it out in your head, and were already in the right gear with clear mirrors before you went for it. My cousin in law just lost a brother, a reasonably experienced biker, in a head on with a lorry. Overtook, when couldnt see it was safe to do so, and died for the decision. Was just out on a sunday am early morning fun ride on a super sports bike. He didn't die because he was a biker, he died because he mad 1 bad decision, one which he'd never have made in a car. Its the environment and risk assessment that is dangerous, nor riding itself. Your choice of bike might influence your perception of what you can or cant get away safely with.
Thats my thoughts - others will be along to criticise it later.
black-k1 said:
The only issue with getting a big/fast/powerful bike as a first bike is if you think your enthusiasm is likely to overtake your skill. It's not the first 3 months that are likely to be a risk as you'll be taking it very gently and being careful. It's the months after that when your confidence has increased but your skill hasn't. If you feel you can restrain yourself then go for it.
I would recommend getting advanced training after you have passed your test. Learn how to read the road and how to set up correctly for hazards.
The only other risk is that it takes a while to get your balance right at slow speed and while pushing the bike around. The Blackbird is a big bike and if it starts to fall over you'll not stop it. The best you can hope to do is slow it down. Be prepared to drop it and to live with the scratches and scuffs that come with that. Not everyone drops their first bike, but most do.
Great advice. I went from DAS straight to a litre bike and as k1 says, you'll probably drop it (I dropped a 916 on day 2) and the skill/confidence ratio raises its head after a few months and that's when the risk goes through the roof. If you've got the chance of a great bike for free, I'd go for it...and then book in a Bikesafe or similar soon afterwards. I would recommend getting advanced training after you have passed your test. Learn how to read the road and how to set up correctly for hazards.
The only other risk is that it takes a while to get your balance right at slow speed and while pushing the bike around. The Blackbird is a big bike and if it starts to fall over you'll not stop it. The best you can hope to do is slow it down. Be prepared to drop it and to live with the scratches and scuffs that come with that. Not everyone drops their first bike, but most do.
Personally, I think safety on a bike like the Blackbird as a first bike has less to do with the bike and more to do with your skills and personality. It's certainly an intimidating first bike, due to its bulk and power, so I agree with others who have advised a smaller bike to gain experience on. The key thing is that you sound like you have your head screwed on right. Just asking for advice here, and being open to feedback, says a huge amount about your attitude, and your cautious approach and openness to advice will keep you safe.
Judging when you are ready to move up to the Blackbird is not so easy, when you don't know what you don't know. So I would say that some further training is essential: to be safe - and just as important, to enjoy your riding - you need to climb the learning curve faster than most people, which means some police road craft based training with an ex or serving police officer would give you the benefit of their superb skills. They will observe and analyse your riding and give you valuable feedback on weak spots, and how to be both safer and faster. Those that do this sort of training love bikes, and are passionate about passing on their skills and keeping more riders safe on the roads. On my course, in the 90s (I'm a bit, ahem, older than you at 44) I remember being blown away at how fast they rode on their Pan Europeans (I was on a Honda CBR600). On the road (a track is quite different) safe speed is mostly about vision, road placement and hazard awareness. Sounds boring, but it's actually exhilarating when you get it right, and requires full concentration.
If you can afford it, do some track days as well. Perhaps if you get a 500/600cc bike the use that, if not then when you graduate to the Blackbird then take that. Get an instructor to show you round, and get some tips, and gradually pick up speed and practice. Even better would be some race school training. I did all levels at the California Superbike School, and this training really will teach you how to go fast. But do the road craft training first, those road skills are more important initially in my view.
Enjoy the learning curve, fast bikes are great fun and very cool (to people like us anyway) as long as you don't come off. I've come off twice, in the first few years, but thankfully only slow speed spills. I've known several friends who had serious accidents, and they were great riders, so the risk is real as we all know. Hence why I am advocating so strongly further training. Best of luck.
Judging when you are ready to move up to the Blackbird is not so easy, when you don't know what you don't know. So I would say that some further training is essential: to be safe - and just as important, to enjoy your riding - you need to climb the learning curve faster than most people, which means some police road craft based training with an ex or serving police officer would give you the benefit of their superb skills. They will observe and analyse your riding and give you valuable feedback on weak spots, and how to be both safer and faster. Those that do this sort of training love bikes, and are passionate about passing on their skills and keeping more riders safe on the roads. On my course, in the 90s (I'm a bit, ahem, older than you at 44) I remember being blown away at how fast they rode on their Pan Europeans (I was on a Honda CBR600). On the road (a track is quite different) safe speed is mostly about vision, road placement and hazard awareness. Sounds boring, but it's actually exhilarating when you get it right, and requires full concentration.
If you can afford it, do some track days as well. Perhaps if you get a 500/600cc bike the use that, if not then when you graduate to the Blackbird then take that. Get an instructor to show you round, and get some tips, and gradually pick up speed and practice. Even better would be some race school training. I did all levels at the California Superbike School, and this training really will teach you how to go fast. But do the road craft training first, those road skills are more important initially in my view.
Enjoy the learning curve, fast bikes are great fun and very cool (to people like us anyway) as long as you don't come off. I've come off twice, in the first few years, but thankfully only slow speed spills. I've known several friends who had serious accidents, and they were great riders, so the risk is real as we all know. Hence why I am advocating so strongly further training. Best of luck.
Definitely take the Blackbird, but ride it straight of & it's been my observation that you're likely to throw it down the road between 7 & 10 days later. Get something a bit smaller/less powerful, get a bit of experience, have a couple of near misses, a few saves, witness a few accidents caused by bellended riding or just bad luck & you're likely to be a lot safer
Wow, all the replies have been astonishingly good and well thought out so many thanks for the constructive input chaps. I like to think I'm fairly level headed and can play the long game as I intend. For me, riding isn't about blasting out of every corner with both arses twitching(!) it's for the flow from one corner to the next and the sense of freedom.
However, I'm not daft and know that temptation can kick in when you see others on their litre sports bikes blasting past.
I'm perhaps thinking I should give more thought to the weight of the bike. At 6ft and nearly 19st I put the weight of the bike second to my concerns about the power and speed. I'll definitely get booked on to a few advanced riding courses. Maybe a few hours spent down the local supermarket car park would hone my low speed skills and teach my to work with the weight?
Again, thanks for the replies. This has all come about quite out of the blue...
However, I'm not daft and know that temptation can kick in when you see others on their litre sports bikes blasting past.
I'm perhaps thinking I should give more thought to the weight of the bike. At 6ft and nearly 19st I put the weight of the bike second to my concerns about the power and speed. I'll definitely get booked on to a few advanced riding courses. Maybe a few hours spent down the local supermarket car park would hone my low speed skills and teach my to work with the weight?
Again, thanks for the replies. This has all come about quite out of the blue...
Lots of bks talked on here, I think.
All bikes have the ingredients to throw you into a lamp post at 50mph (aka kill you stone dead) but treat any bike with a big dose of respect and understand that even if you have a bike license, you are only 5% skilled and must continue learning by reading (Twist of the Wrist), practicing and working on the right mental attitude (riding a bike safely is as much about your head as your athletic ability).
There are folks who pass the DAS and jump onto less tolerant bikes, such as big torquey twin, and don't die in a fiery climax.
You'll find that you take it sooner than you think, and 140bhp will seem insufficient.
Keep it sunny-side up.
ks talked on here, I think.All bikes have the ingredients to throw you into a lamp post at 50mph (aka kill you stone dead) but treat any bike with a big dose of respect and understand that even if you have a bike license, you are only 5% skilled and must continue learning by reading (Twist of the Wrist), practicing and working on the right mental attitude (riding a bike safely is as much about your head as your athletic ability).
There are folks who pass the DAS and jump onto less tolerant bikes, such as big torquey twin, and don't die in a fiery climax.
You'll find that you take it sooner than you think, and 140bhp will seem insufficient.
Keep it sunny-side up.
TheCarMadDad said:
Wow, all the replies have been astonishingly good and well thought out so many thanks for the constructive input chaps.
I think it's more to with the way you come across as to how people respond. To me you seem like a responsible intelligent dad who want to ride a big bike owned by an idol.
I say get it and just ride it and see how you go.
Normally I'd say no but on this occasion with all things considered it's a Yes! from me.
TheCarMadDad said:
Chaps,
Thanks very much for the honest replies. After much thought I think I will be getting it. However, I'm going to be sensible about it. I'll put her in my garage and work on her for a while, I'm in no rush. Whilst I'm bringing her back up to scratch I'll buy something with tax/test just to get some more experience. And when I feel ready, and only then, will I take the bird out and gradually get to know the fat heffer. I will also put a restrictor kit on for as long as it takes.
How do restrictor kits work exactly?
FWIW, I think you're doing the right thing.Thanks very much for the honest replies. After much thought I think I will be getting it. However, I'm going to be sensible about it. I'll put her in my garage and work on her for a while, I'm in no rush. Whilst I'm bringing her back up to scratch I'll buy something with tax/test just to get some more experience. And when I feel ready, and only then, will I take the bird out and gradually get to know the fat heffer. I will also put a restrictor kit on for as long as it takes.
How do restrictor kits work exactly?
Do it! I was wanting a bike a long time ago, mate offered me his Kawasaki ZX10,the original one, it was a 1990, 5 year old 175mph superbike. So went and passed my test and in the afternoon insured it, after quite a few phone calls, then went out on it and rode it,carefully.
Just because it will do 170mph+ doesn`t mean you have to do it, get your licence and take your time on it, keep it below 3k for a while or you will soon be putting your licence in a shredder.Also remember it is built for high speed cruising not throwing around like say a blade or an R1, Oh and budget at least 150 quid every 2-3000 miles for a new back tyre.
Just because it will do 170mph+ doesn`t mean you have to do it, get your licence and take your time on it, keep it below 3k for a while or you will soon be putting your licence in a shredder.Also remember it is built for high speed cruising not throwing around like say a blade or an R1, Oh and budget at least 150 quid every 2-3000 miles for a new back tyre.
GTIR said:
egor110 said:
Would/is it possible to remap the blackbird and tone it down a tad?
He's an adult not 17yo. He's already acknowledged the bikes got the potential to be a hand full, so why not tone it down a bit until he's got used to it?
You see lots of adults living out there mid life crisis on there nice new shiny bike with there rossi helmets who think there the dogs danglies until there wallet outweighs there skill.
egor110 said:
GTIR said:
egor110 said:
Would/is it possible to remap the blackbird and tone it down a tad?
He's an adult not 17yo. He's already acknowledged the bikes got the potential to be a hand full, so why not tone it down a bit until he's got used to it?
You see lots of adults living out there mid life crisis on there nice new shiny bike with there rossi helmets who think there the dogs danglies until there wallet outweighs there skill.
He's hardly likely to ride it like an arse if it belonged to an idol of his who died is he now. Especially as it's obvious he knows the possible dangers.
IMO he's not like a typical middle aged wannabe biker whatsoever.
GTIR said:
Have you actually read the OP's first post?
He's hardly likely to ride it like an arse if it belonged to an idol of his who died is he now. Especially as it's obvious he knows the possible dangers.
IMO he's not like a typical middle aged wannabe biker whatsoever.
Theres no one who doesn't make a mistake through inexperience. If you didn't then your the first and only, and should be snapped up by team Ducati in the tragic loss of Rossi to another team. Thats not riding like an arse, its just a total lack of roadcraft. Riding like an arse isn't just going too quickly. He's hardly likely to ride it like an arse if it belonged to an idol of his who died is he now. Especially as it's obvious he knows the possible dangers.
IMO he's not like a typical middle aged wannabe biker whatsoever.
This is someone without any experience, in a bike with the level of performance where it can go very wrong, very very quickly. And it doesn't need to be *his* fault, if the inexperience simply leads to freezing, or indecision in the face of a risk caused by someone else.
In summary, OP, as you might have expected, the BB massive reckons you'll either kill yourself first time out or you'll be fine (forget 5 years on a 125, that's just fking ridiculous) so the way to settle the matter is obviously to toss a coin.
It'll have about as much to tell you about your possible future as anything the slack-jawed brain donors have told you so far.
king ridiculous) so the way to settle the matter is obviously to toss a coin. It'll have about as much to tell you about your possible future as anything the slack-jawed brain donors have told you so far.
Pothole said:
In summary, OP, as you might have expected, the BB massive reckons you'll either kill yourself first time out or you'll be fine (forget 5 years on a 125, that's just fking ridiculous) so the way to settle the matter is obviously to toss a coin.
It'll have about as much to tell you about your possible future as anything the slack-jawed brain donors have told you so far.
In the wrong hands a 125 stepthru is just as dangerous as a blackbird, in the right hands it`s just as safe.I do not consider myself a slack-jawed brain donor or a statistic waiting to happen, just giving the op some advise as I bought at the time one of the fastest road bikes when I had just passed my test.king ridiculous) so the way to settle the matter is obviously to toss a coin. It'll have about as much to tell you about your possible future as anything the slack-jawed brain donors have told you so far.
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